[Article] Clampers refused to release car at request of doctor

Victor

http://home.eircom.net/content/irelandcom/topstories/3231026?view=Eircomnet

Clampers refused to release car at request of doctor
From:ireland.com
Thursday, 20th May, 2004

A clamping company has apologised for an incident where its staff clamped two cars outside a doctor's surgery in Galway during a medical emergency.

Control Plus, the company contracted by Galway City Council, has also said that it is carrying out an internal review of the circumstances surrounding the incident, which occurred on the Crescent near the city centre last Saturday.

One of the two staff members involved has been assigned to office duties as a matter of course, but not as a disciplinary measure, the company said yesterday.

Mr Neil Cunningham, managing director of Control Plus, told The Irish Times that there was an "error of judgment" by its staff in relation to the "doctor on call" badge on the doctor's car, and "whether it was genuine or not". He said that Galway City Council had instructed it not to recognise "doctor on call" signs on cars, as they were not exempt from the city's parking rules and by-laws.

Both cars were parked in spaces reserved for drivers with disabilities, and neither vehicle carried the EU-recognised disabled parking sticker.

The staff had clamped the doctor's car, and that of the father of an eight-year-old child who was showing symptoms of meningitis and needed to be transferred to University College Hospital, Galway, at 8.46 a.m. last Saturday. The clamps were released only when a garda, who was called to the scene, agreed to pay the release fee.

Mr Michael Mannion had called to the surgery with the child and had received a letter from the doctor on duty to take the child to hospital. When he came out, both cars were clamped. He had no money with him as it was an emergency, and the clamping staff also ignored the doctor's request to remove the clamps.

When the gardaí also arrived, the staff member still refused until a garda gave him his own banker's card. The doctor wrote a cheque to have her own vehicle released. "The man kept the card and went over to the van and started to process all the paperwork, and still left us sitting there," Mr Mannion said. He and his child did not reach the hospital until after 9.30 a.m., some 45 minutes later. Fortunately, the eight-year-old did not have meningitis.

The Control Plus managing director said that the two cars had been clamped in "good faith" and the doctor had paid her clamping release fee before the gardaí arrived. "It is a lot clearer now what the facts were than what they were at the scene at the time, and our people are seriously embarrassed by the situation," Mr Cunningham said yesterday.

"The crew that we had out on Saturday morning are presented with these sorts of scenarios on a regular basis. Some are genuine, the vast majority are not genuine," he said.

Mr Cunningham said that all the staff were thoroughly trained under a two-week programme which dealt with customer care and aggression, before being sent out on the street.

ken90

There is a view that the Clamper should be charged with
Reckless Endangerment.

mike65

I saw that report on the news last night - could'nt belive it! The guy should be charged as said above and then sacked for gross stupidity.

Mike.

Victor

http://home.eircom.net/content/unison/national/3231210?view=Eircomnet

Clampers 'sorry' after father held up taking sick boy to hospital
From:The Irish Independent
Thursday, 20th May, 2004

A CLAMPING company has apologised after staff clamped the cars of a doctor and the father of a seriously ill child who was being rushed to hospital with suspected meningitis.

Control Plus, the company which enforces parking regulations in Galway city, has also promised to carry out an internal review after gardai were called to the scene and staff continued to refuse to release the clamp from the father's car.

A garda personally paid for the release of the vehicle with his own credit card. The incident happened last Saturday morning as Michael Mannion of Castle Park, Galway, drove his 11-year-old son, Glenn, to a doctor's surgery at the Crescent.

Mr Mannion and the doctor both parked in a disabled bay immediately outside the surgery as the child was thought to be suffering from meningitis. The roadway was deserted as Mr Mannion reached the surgery at 8.35am.

Glenn had a throat virus and was suffering from dehydration and the doctor quickly wrote a letter of referral to University College Hospital, querying meningitis.

But when they left the surgery just before 9am, they discovered that both cars had been clamped at 8.46am. The clamper was still at the scene, but refused to remove the clamp until the fee was paid.

Mr Mannion said: "I told him I had no money with me as I had left home quickly because it was a medical emergency. I was willing to pay any money if I had it, but it was physically impossible for me to do so as I hadn't anything with me and I had to get my child to the hospital.

"The doctor came out and pleaded with him and told him it was a serious situation with a query about meningitis. She told him the child was suffering from dehydration and she wanted him to be admitted to hospital straight away."

The clamper said he would only release the car when the fee was paid. He said the Doctor on Call sticker on her car windscreen counted for nothing.

Mr Mannion and the doctor summoned the gardai and, when they arrived, they asked the clamper to release Mr Mannion's car.

The doctor produced a cheque to pay for her own car and again pleaded for the clamp to be removed from Mr Mannion's car.

"One of the guards then handed him his credit card to pay the clamping fee and told him to take the clamp off and let me go to the hospital with my child. But he sat into the van and started to process all the paperwork, leaving us sitting there - his partner was just standing at the side of the road," said Mr Mannion.

He eventually got his child to the hospital - a five-minute drive away - after 9.30pm. Meningitis was ruled out and the child has since recovered.

Yesterday, managing director of Control Plus Neil Cunningham admitted that staff had misjudged the situation and the company regretted what had happened. He said: "There was an error of judgment on behalf of our parking attendants on the scene. They misjudged the seriousness of the situation and it's a lot clearer what the facts are now than what they were at the scene and at the time.."

He confirmed that the individual staff member was no longer involved in clamping, but was now assigned to office duties, pending the outcome of the internal review.

Brian McDonald

Contrast with: http://home.eircom.net/content/unison/national/3231214?view=Eircomnet

Driver clocked at 101mph had urgent 'delivery'
From:The Irish Independent
Thursday, 20th May, 2004

A WOMAN who appeared before Arklow court yesterday for driving at 101mph escaped conviction when it was learned she had been driving her niece, who was in labour, to hospital.

Margaret O'Brien of Kenmare Heights, Greystones, was before the court for exceeding the speed limit at Johnstown North, Arklow, on March 2 last year.

Judge Donnachadh O'Buachalla heard the baby was born that night in hospital. Defence counsel Edmund Louth said it was Ms O'Brien's first child and she and her aunt were very concerned. Garda Peter McAteer gave evidence he had offered to call an ambulance, but she had declined the offer.

The judge said that under the circumstances he would not proceed to a conviction if the defendant undertook to pay €100 to the Garda Benevolent Fund.

a_ominous

Contrast with: http://home.eircom.net/content/unis...?view=Eircomnet

One person parked outside a doctor's surgery early on a quiet Saturday morning. Committing a minor traffic offence.
The aunt of a pregnant woman driving at more than 40 mph over the speed limit. And she gets off with a €100 fine? Is she a trained police driver or something?? She was being bloody reckless. I accept that they mightn't have been able to wait for an ambulance to come and collect her, but a call to the local gards was too much trouble for an escort to hospital? Did the pregnant woman not know she was expecting?? Sheesh!, some people. Under pressure they suddenly think they Mickey Schumacher!

seamus

The clamper's thing is a bit of a disgrace. Fair enough he clamped the cars, but not agreeing to release them without payment is ridiculous.

One thing I was thinking though - If the hosptal is 5 minutes away, why did they stand around debating it, when an ambulance or Garda car could have popped them over in half the time. Save the kid, sort it out later like.

Bee

There have been numerous incidents highlighted in various newspapers displaying the thug like attitude of clampers.

There are also many personal experiences related by individuals once again high lighting how this company operates.

I would like to imagine that the rabid anti car people in DCC and Galway council would disagree with the behaviour of the clampers but some how I dont' know if they would or not?

Do we want our traffic management to spend other peoples money in this way? ( tax payers money) I don't. Clamping is a license to print money.

The next tender for "traffic management" will have to be worded (it should be taken away from DCC etc to prevent further cock ups) to stop this type of cowboy clamper behaviour.

Bee

Victor

Bee banned.

Sarsfield

Originally posted by Bee
There have been numerous incidents highlighted in various newspapers displaying the thug like attitude of clampers.

The fact that the press can find something bad to say about an operation that most people are bound to dislike hardly says much.

I obviously agree that the incident in question was dreadful, but to use a few incidents to draw a general conclusion is ridiculous.

I'm in Dublin City Centre 7 days a week. I see lots of clamped cars and I can't say I remember ever seeing a clamped car that didn't deserve it.

But why is Bee banned?

mike65

Originally posted by Sarsfield
But why is Bee banned?

Indeed!

Mike.

seamus

Actually, I'm quite behind the clampers.

There have been a few incidents with them, but overall, you have to admire their integrity.

If the clampers operated the way a lot of other Irish services worked, they'd clock in at 9am, take 45 minutes to consider putting on a clamp, 2 hours for lunch, and anyone who was "in the know" or who slipped a quick €20 in the morning could park wherever the hell they like. Then the lads would head off again at 5, and not unlock any clamps until 9am the next morning.

Then these guys come along, do their job efficiently, diligently, and more importantly, they do their job properly and the drivers of Dublin complain that they're not cutting people any slack?

You're damned if you do and damned if you don't in this country, really.

I'd have to echo Sarsfield's comment. I've never seen a car clamped that didn't deserve it. That's not to say it doesn't happen, mind.

People need to learn that if you park illegally, you get clamped. There's no leeway. As it should be.

Victor

Bee is banned :

(a) for the inane to bring DCC into any possible discussion, for having been warned on it, but persisting.
(b) for annoying me
(c) so I can oppress her
(d) for a week

Separately and while I think that this is a case of dreadful public relations / customer service and lack of good judgement, clamping the cars was right. Hanging around to get your car unclamped when you have to get to hospital ASAP isn't. I'm quite sure the doctor could have arranged an ambulance or they could have asked the cop to take them to the hospital.

Borzoi

It goes without saying that the clampers attitude was way off, but what I find really bizarre is the doctor's behaviour.

1) He was parked in a disability bay
2) He wrote a cheque for his own car to be unclamped straight away. Did he offer to cover the patient's car? Surely as a matter of expediency, this would have been quicker, then get the money back from his client (the father) or the clamping company later. Like this was supposed to be an emergency! This is why I can't help feeling the story is a bit more media generated than the reality.

Just a thought.

Genghis

I agree there was a touch of the 'Irish complaint' to this one. You know how it goes, you have a genuine complaint, and a genuine reason to be angry. But rather than proceed on that basis you extrapolate the situation to the 'worst case scenario'. Suddenly the event becomes more about what 'could've' happened than what did happen.

In reality:
The child was sick, and seriously so.
The child did need a hospital, and it was urgent.
The clamping employee was unneccessaily rigid and completely in the wrong.
The subsequent apology and the action against the employee are justified.
Fair play to the Guard who intervened and sorted the situation.

If the company learn from it, then it ought to be 'case closed'.

Instead, the media conjectures the worst case scenario - "imagine the child died on the street". Forget the fact that despite this nobody called an ambulance, taxi or hailed down a passing motorist. Forget the fact that there seemed to be enough time to have an extended exchange of words at the scene. Forget the fact that the child was at all times in the company of his parent and his doctor.

Just think the worst. Then you got a real story.

BrianD

In theory I agree with the clamping policy. However, I have found the clampers in our area of Dublin extremely aggressive and they have taken a high level of interest in our street which is one way and of little value in term of traffic flow etc. I was clamped on the street for the first time recently.

What I would like to know is:

Who do you make representations to in order to review the parking arrangements in the area (i.e number of spaces, tarriff, hours of operation etc.)

Who do you make a complaint to within DCC about the clamping company. The clamping company has a tender which is reviewed in the light of performance.

Finally, is it still possible to get a parking fine without being clamped/towed and how much is it?

Lemming

Originally posted by Borzoi
It goes without saying that the clampers attitude was way off, but what I find really bizarre is the doctor's behaviour.

1) He was parked in a disability bay
2) He wrote a cheque for his own car to be unclamped straight away. Did he offer to cover the patient's car? Surely as a matter of expediency, this would have been quicker, then get the money back from his client (the father) or the clamping company later. Like this was supposed to be an emergency! This is why I can't help feeling the story is a bit more media generated than the reality.

"She" offered to write a cheque for the father's car too, but the clamper refused saying that the car was to be paid for seperately.

On the note of never seeing a car that was clamped that shouldn't have been, there was a case in Dublin last year where a delivery person was harassed by the clampers during permissable delivery hours. When he refused to obey their (outlandish and downright incorrect) demands they boxed him in with three vans and intimidated him. Needless to say, the company in question got landed in a lot of sh*t over their behaviour.

dahamsta

I never got clamping tbh. The whole point of parking management should surely be to free up spaces as quickly as possible, not lock them down. If a car's taking up valuable parking space, take the bloody thing away.

adam

minority

I was clamped on near landsdowne stadium last year.
I had arrived 1 minute after the the pay parking period expired e.g saturday at (6 or 8:01 pm, i cant remember which it was) went into friends house to collect him for 5 minutes. Came back and the car was clamped.
Nothing i said made any difference. The driver insisted that the car was there before that time, even though he clamped it at 3 inutes past the hour.

BrianD

In this case, I think the clampers were in the right. If it was a medical emergency such as suspected menigitis the parents should have gone straight to the hospital and not to a doctors surgery to collect a letter. I would have thought that the doctor would have a space at his own surgery!!

Victor

Originally posted by dahamsta
I never got clamping tbh. The whole point of parking management should surely be to free up spaces as quickly as possible, not lock them down. If a car's taking up valuable parking space, take the bloody thing away.

Towing is a lot more costly to both clamper and clampee to implement.

Typically parking fee evaders are clamped, dangerous / obstructive parkers are towed.

Of course there is a whole hierarchy of high and low priorities in implementing parking / traffic policies.

Lemming

Originally posted by BrianD
In this case, I think the clampers were in the right. If it was a medical emergency such as suspected menigitis the parents should have gone straight to the hospital and not to a doctors surgery to collect a letter. I would have thought that the doctor would have a space at his own surgery!!

Before I tear into what you've just said, do you think that a clamper should be able to overrule a garda in such a context?

Now, the father brought the children to the surgery because they were ill. The doctor then suspected it of being meningitis and wrote the letter of referral and instructing the father to take the children to the hospital immediately.

The clamper told the doctor that her "doctor on call" sticker, which, I should imagine, is issued by the local authority is in fact absolutely useless because "he said so".

With all that said, do you not think that there's something fundamentally wrong with the clamper's mentality and attitude when after all the fuss caused and the suspected seriousness of the children's illness that the clamper then sat back and leisurely processed all of the paperwork before releasing the vehicle?

The clamper in question also has an apparent history of being somewhat .... overzealous ......

Victor

Originally posted by Lemming
Before I tear into what you've just said, do you think that a clamper should be able to overrule a garda in such a context?

Should a garda be able to over rule a clamper? I would have to say no (save cases of obstruction, breach of the peace, etc.), as the clamping is a civil not criminal matter.

Originally posted by Lemming
Now, the father brought the children to the surgery because they were ill. The doctor then suspected it of being meningitis and wrote the letter of referral and instructing the father to take the children to the hospital immediately.

The letter of referrral is in part to ensure A&E cases are genuine and to cut down "ordinary" cases blocking emergency spaces.

Originally posted by Lemming
The clamper told the doctor that her "doctor on call" sticker, which, I should imagine, is issued by the local authority is in fact absolutely useless because "he said so".

Unless Galway makes an exception "doctor on call" signs are meaningless - no more than "builder working in no. 37". It wasn't a matter of the individual clamper deciding - he was just following the law.

Originally posted by Lemming
With all that said, do you not think that there's something fundamentally wrong with the clamper's mentality and attitude when after all the fuss caused and the suspected seriousness of the children's illness that the clamper then sat back and leisurely processed all of the paperwork before releasing the vehicle?

I deal with members of the public. If someone trys to transposes their problem onto me (as opposed to asking for my help), I'm not going to go out of my way to help them and many other people will act similarly.

seamus

Originally posted by Lemming
The clamper told the doctor that her "doctor on call" sticker, which, I should imagine, is issued by the local authority is in fact absolutely useless because "he said so".

As Victor said, it was the county council who decided they should be ignored. Their reasoning isn't completely flawed. For starters, a doctor may only be on call for a certain number of hours per week. For the rest of that time, they could (and probably would) abuse that priviledge by thinking they're untouchable. It's a sticker on a car window, so it's permanent.

You could make the reasoning that if he was attending an emergency call, he shouldn't have to look for a free spot, but he probably wouldn't. Be clamped, and help the sick. A doctor on call will not drive a patient to the hospital. They will always call an ambulance. Once the ambulance is gone, the doctor's job is done for the moment, he/she has time to deal with a clamped vehicle.

eth0_

Originally posted by a_ominous
I accept that they mightn't have been able to wait for an ambulance to come and collect her, but a call to the local gards was too much trouble for an escort to hospital? Did the pregnant woman not know she was expecting?? Sheesh!, some people. Under pressure they suddenly think they Mickey Schumacher!

That is the most ignorant thing I have read on boards in a long time. For one thing the guards won't give a woman in labour a police escort, unless the baby is about to pop out in the car, and as for not knowing she was expecting - do you know how pregnancy works? You don't get a date and a time when your baby is going to emerge into the world....sheesh.

Victor

http://home.eircom.net/content/irelandcom/topstories/3527041?view=Eircomnet

Galway clamping regime censured
From:ireland.com
Monday, 5th July, 2004

The deputy mayor of Galway is calling for the city's vehicle clamping contract to be terminated, claiming the present regime is causing havoc to tourism and business.

In a notice of motion before tonight's meeting of the city council, Cllr Pádraig Conneely (FG) is proposing that the council take over clamping and introduce a more humane system.

He said: "I will be asking the council to revert back to what clamping was originally introduced for - to have a free flow of traffic in a city of old narrow streets and to stop people parking on double yellow lines . . . "

He added that the private clamping company under contract to the council, Central Parking Systems Ltd, had failed in this regard because, according to a report coming before the meeting tonight, 65 per cent of the revenue from clamping is from disc parking areas.

He recalled a recent incident in the city where a clamper refused to remove a clamp from a car outside a doctor's surgery, even when requested to do so by a garda, so that a father could take a sick child to hospital.

Mr Conneely said: "Galway has become an unfriendly city as a result of the inhumane actions of the clampers, who have no consideration . . . "

BrianD

The clampers are over zealous and rude. However, they are effective in achieving their goal. The story about the sick kid is very dubious, I am sure everybody who gets clamped has some hard luck story.

Better check the meter ...