Education system in Ireland

Cuchulann

Am I the only one that thinks Irelands education system needs a major over haul!!!!

You have students dropping out of school because they find it boring and irrelevant to what is really going on in the country.

I am of the opinion that if the education system was tailored around the student and what they have intersts in, for example, Music, that that student should have the opportunity to study that subject rather then science for example which the student may fail anyway due to lack of interest and dedication to the subject.

Am I wrong? Am I being too radicale too soon? Any suggestions?

Sleepy

huh?:dunno:

Cuchulann

Did I say something that you could not understand Sleepy?

leeroybrown

Posted by Cuchulann:
Any suggestions?

Two:

• Try posting about it in a relevant forum (One of the Education forums, Humantities or Politics)
• Beer - Saturday - O'Reillys

Trojan

Split and moved.

You just cost me 4 minutes. Stay on topic or be banned from the Events board.

Politics mods - apologies if this is the wrong place. Also please note not to ban the respondents above for being off-topic as I moved the thread from Events.

Cheers,
Al.

Victor

Originally posted by Cuchulann
I am of the opinion that if the education system was tailored around the student and what they have intersts in, for example, Music, that that student should have the opportunity to study that subject rather then science

All well and good to provide a holistic education, but it's also important to educate people for life and work.

David-[RLD]-

I agree. The way certain subjects are taught is atrocious and some of the stuff you learn is pointless.

Higher Level Irish is designed for people who can already speak it, yet you will never become fluent if you do Ordinary Level. Higher Level Irish should be taught like French is, with words listed and explained in English, giving students a greater understanding and interest in the language.

Also, in English... Shakespeare? If the English have gotten rid of Shakespeare, surely we can too, since he isn't even Irish.
A lot of Irish plays are much better than Shakespeares' IMO.

Just my opinion...

simu

Originally posted by Cuchulann
Am I the only one that thinks Irelands education system needs a major over haul!!!!

You have students dropping out of school because they find it boring and irrelevant to what is really going on in the country.

I am of the opinion that if the education system was tailored around the student and what they have intersts in, for example, Music, that that student should have the opportunity to study that subject rather then science for example which the student may fail anyway due to lack of interest and dedication to the subject.

Am I wrong? Am I being too radicale too soon? Any suggestions?

I don't think people drop out because school is boring. Most people stick with it so that they can go to college.

I think that many of the people that drop out do so, not because they find school dull but because they are having emotional problems or else because they didn't learn the basics of education properly at primary school and they can't keep up with thier classmates. So, they should have more psychologists in schools and have special programmes for people who are falling behind - the latter in primary school preferably as there's less stigma attached to having learning problems in primary school.

BuffyBot

If the English have gotten rid of Shakespeare, surely we can too, since he isn't even Irish.

They haven't. Shakespreare still features in a lot of schools curricula

arcadegame2004

I feel that the way our Education-system teaches the Irish-language is counterproductive and outdated.

The times I understood the language best were when I went to a Summer school in Wexford town. There, the emphasis was much more on conversation Irish.

But in secondary school the focus is almost all on nouns or else verbs in their various tenses, or poems. While this obviously is part of learning any language, I find that the balance is far too weight in this direction to the detriment of conversational Irish.

As a result, most students end up resenting the language. My Irish teacher in secondary school was a VERY angry dude. If you made the slightest error he would scream down your neck and probably pull your hair or slap you in the face.

Part of the problem is the ethos of "beating Irish into the pupil" that seems to pre-occupy some of our teachers. While usually this doesn't result in violence, it often results in a very, well, coercive attempt to drum nouns, verbs and tenses into their heads without regard for how they are used in conversation.

I greatly preferred learning French though because there, the main emphasis was on conversational French. Of course the tenses were important too, as were nouns, but the emphasis was more on conversation. And as such, I still remember a fair amount of French today, 6 years after I completed by French Leaving-Cert Exam. So therein lies the secret of making Irish more popular as a subject that can be enjoyed and learned well, rather than resented. I am also unsure that it should continue to be a compuslory subject at Leaving-Cert level. If people were learning it voluntarily then learning it wouldn't feel so coercive and inspiring resentment. This is another reason why I enjoyed learning French. I chose it as a subject you see.

seamus

Originally posted by Cuchulann
I am of the opinion that if the education system was tailored around the student and what they have intersts in, for example, Music, that that student should have the opportunity to study that subject rather then science for example which the student may fail anyway due to lack of interest and dedication to the subject.

You can study Music if you so desire. It's an examinable subject. As Victor says, that's all well and nice. Knowing the intricacies of guitar-playing may sound like an ideal prospect, but isn't much use to you if you're having trouble figuring out why your pets keep dying and you don't understand why your tyres keep bursting when you don't replace them.

Everyone needs a firm grasp in some basic fundamentals that affect us everyday. You can function very eadily without knowing anything about music. You would find yourself remarkably confused and marginalised if you knew no science. The Junior Cert Science course provides a fantastic grounding. I wouldn't scrap it for anything.

Zedrayas

Cuchulann wrote: »

Am I the only one that thinks Irelands education system needs a major over haul!!!!

You have students dropping out of school because they find it boring and irrelevant to what is really going on in the country.

I am of the opinion that if the education system was tailored around the student and what they have intersts in, for example, Music, that that student should have the opportunity to study that subject rather then science for example which the student may fail anyway due to lack of interest and dedication to the subject.

Am I wrong? Am I being too radicale too soon? Any suggestions?

No your not wrong at all , I agree 100% , and I'm currently a student doing my Junior Cert this year. If the system revolved around the individuals rather than the subjects , people would do much better , and have a higher chance in finding what they want to do in life.

For example: Woodwork Theory is meant to teach students about the theory behind woodworking , the types of wood and tools , the bit of biology behind tree's , all the different methods of doing stuff , etc. But what is happening is , the teachers are teaching towards the JUNIOR CERT Not the actual subject. The teachers are teaching us for the sake of getting good grades , not so we know the actual theory or subject. Now, it's obvious that if your a teacher you want your students to do well! but you cant just teach them the stuff that "MIGHT" come up and leave the whole other side of the book uncovered!

Also , what i found interesting about what you said was , that yeah , certain students , and individuals , infact , probably ALL students/individuals , have very specific hobbies and interests. For example , a couple of my friends are music fanatics! they play music in their free time and listen to it when not practising! if the teachers recognise this , or ask this , and then set the teaching method towards their hobbies , they'd much prefer the subjects , and actually much prefer school!

I mean , yeahh I'm just a student so who cares what I say , all i want is easier school , well it's not that way , yeah obviously we have to do the basic subjects : Math , English , Science , Geo , History , and Irish(*) - But all I'm saying is , if the teachers recognised what the students were into themselves? both teachers and students would have an easier time learning/teaching.

(*) Also , about Irish. This is one thing that me , many of my friends , young and old , and adults I've talked to agree on: The way the Irish language is compulsory , for 1. It's hardly EVER used anymore , yeah there's the Aran Islands , and parts of Galway , and other counties that have places to speak it , but its not a language we use EVERY DAY , is it? Now , dont get me wrong , I'm not saying get rid of it completely , there are the rare few who actually like it and want it , but for the people who dont like it , and dont want it , why should it be compulsory? Why should Ireland be one of the only countries where 3 languages are compulsory? (English,Irish,and either German/French/or Spanish) - There's got to be some proof that other countries do better with 2 languages instead of 3 , coz in my opinion thats the only way we'll be able to convince the Educational System to stop it from being compulsory.

Anyway , rant over.
Sorry if a lot of that was politically incorrect , I'm only 14.
Thanks for reading if you did!
Zed.

Zedrayas

I completely agree with you David - its appalling how it's taught. and that its compulsory.

Toshchiy Imperatritsy Vselennoy

Some students are barely coming away with basic grammar or maths, those skills seem to be suffering in the name of more 'progressive' subjects.


What students are interested in will not help them progress intellectually. They will have to learn that you may have to study things you don't like. School is not meant to be liked, it is meant to be hard work.

Liberal arts would be over popular will not offer many prospects after school.

Why should the taxpayer fund a hobby curriculum?

You are advocating the type of system they have in America and the UK. Err, no thank you.

What you want to do in life and what you need to be able to make a living are very different.

I definitely think languages need to be overhauled and introduced at a younger age. And Irish should be made voluntary.

We actually need a move towards the sciences and not away from them.

If anyone is paying any attention to what is going on in the country they must realize the days of a students choosing their interests are numbered. We have to teach them skills for the positions that are available. And the skills that ar needed by the economy at the moment are the sciences and languages.

I would also advocate teaching, critical thinking and philosophical subjects such as formal logic. It helps students understand maths and computer science more easily and without any need to make those subjects easier. Infact they are able to understand them in more depth.

I think the study of Shakespeare is justified (i even feel arrogant for seeming to think I am fit to judge) . One of the most important reasons to study him is the rare quality of his work. The richness of his literary devices give you the oppertunity to develop your mind and English skills with a breadth of variety that might be curtailed with some other writers. It is one of the best obstacle courses your education will ever get. It provides great academic rigour in an arts subject, which is important. The arts can become too liberal in their standards sometimes. He contributed so greatly that it could be argued that an adequate knowledge of his work is essential to 'cultural literacy'. He is still entirely relevant and gives great insight to the eternal questions. He writes on sexuality, war, suicide, family, economics,class and politics. What more could you want? My only complaint is his lack of development for his female sometimes. But there are some but not a lot of female characters that make for exceptions.

The study of languages neds to start much earlier and a higher standard must be achieved. A knowledge of linguistics would prove useful in aiding the learning of lanuages, as part of the course. It would make things much easier. Also mor mphasis should be placed on English grammar, as many students are unfamiliar with gramatical terms,tools and structures. It is essential for a student to be able to understand sentence formation for learning any language. It can be frustrating otherwise and they feel that they are not progressing to a conversational level. There should be more native speakers teaching with the ability to give grammatical consistancy. Students seem to think if they simply hear a language long enough it will seep in. And whilst that dfinitely helps we know a lot more about languages now and how they are learnt. It is more complicated than that. But i think the sad fact is that most secondary school teachers do not have a high enough level of their language.

I think a lot of what we used to teach to kids to help them learn has been stripped away.

For instance, the study of music and music theory, would require a good knowledge of maths.

Toshchiy Imperatritsy Vselennoy

We could also aim to get at least one of our universities in the top 100 in the world rankings for once. I think the fact that there is not a single Irish University included is a real blow of reality to the state's international reputation for education.

K-9

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