To play or not to play....

Iago

...that is the question...

I know there have been a number of threads around this area already, but I figured it would still be good to get input from others on my thoughts.

My question lies around the QKA with a low kicker dilemma, standard answer is that you should play if you are in either blind position and can limp in or if you are first to act after the blind, knowing that if anybody raises you will fold and accept the loss.

This can be taken further to state that it depends on what the blinds are, if they are higher than 10-15% of your chips then you shouldn't even limp in, instead waiting for a better hand.

On sunday night, I found myself playing the standard game and dropping Q2, and K3 only to see Q2x and K3x flop on the board and sit there seething at myself. Now I know that the vast majority of time I won't hit the hand, and even if I do, someone else may get a higher kicker but it still irritates me.

On more than 10 occasions on Sunday night I folded my cards only to see that I would have hit a house or a straight on the flop and won the game. I know it's a case of if's and but's, but what do other people think.

Do you always play QKA regardless of kicker, what about 8 9o, 9 10o, 10 Jo...

MrPudding

As you probably know I will go in on anything. Howerver, my alter ego is a lot fussier about starting hands. In gerneral he will not play akq unless the kicker is 10 or better. Even then if there is a lot of action he would probably drop the q.

Naturally, as the game progresses and he gets to kno the people he can bully and as his table image develops the madness begins.

MrP

DeVore

playing AKQ with a poor kicker (8 or less) is something I'll only do when I get down to 4-5 players. Any other time and I'd drop them. Q2.... euw!!

Lets say you are playing the hand that always mugs me. K4.... oh its SO pretty *and* its got a 4, right!!? I mean, whats not to like!

1. Any ace has you bolloxed. A8 has you 2:1 against almost for example...

2. Suppose you do hit your card... a king comes up!! Great! But now someone bets into you (as they will) and you have to think your kicker is shagged and drop it.

3. Suppose you hit your kicker.... well now you have that pesky kicker problem sorted! However you almost certainly have over cards to your pair and again when that bet comes into you....

4. So you *really* need a K and a four on the flop. Ok. While we're dreaming can we also dream Liv Taylor is under the card table blowing us off? I mean, if you are playing for a double hit on the flop, why not play *any* two cards!!

So the answer to your question is: What are you hoping for realistically on the flop and whats likely to happen after that.

DeV.

careca

While we're dreaming can we also dream Liv Taylor is under the card table blowing us off?

DeV are you back on the morphine ?? Was it Eliz Taylor or LIV TYLER you were dreaming about ? Please say the latter!!!

DeVore

er... I meant Liv Tyler of course. I'm not into wrinklies!

DeV.

Hyzepher

Any AKQ with **** kicker gets thrown away by me - except Ax suited where I will limp in from any position but fold to a raise.

Hyzepher

Lafortezza

Q2 is a monster, you're all gay except Pudding, if you hit QQ2 on the flop you're laughing all they way to the final table, think of the value!!!!

Iago

ok, so you all agree with me that these hands should be avoided like the plague, and that is the way I play, as I said on Sunday though out of maybe 15-20 hands that I dropped at least 10-12 would have given me the winning hand!

Q2 and K3 is easy enough to decide on, and as Dev said in a 4 or 5 hand game your opinion differs because short handed a Q K or A in the pocket is a good thing.

But what if you had K9o or suited or Q8o or suited? now you have to make a decision, if they are offsuit you have a (highly unlikely) but possible str8 draw and a high card with a reasonable kicker...

If they're suited you have a potential flush draw as well as a possible str8 draw as well as a reasonable kicker

failing that you could just hit your pair of 8's or 9's and steal the money on the flop.

Is it good play? Probably not, but that's dependant on your position, the information you have about the players on the table and your own table image.

Personally I would normally play KQ with anything suited that can also make a st8, A's with pretty much anything suited and depending on position, number of players and the amount I might play Ax regardless....

henbane

Originally posted by Iago
But what if you had K9o or suited or Q8o or suited? now you have to make a decision, if they are offsuit you have a (highly unlikely) but possible str8 draw and a high card with a reasonable kicker...

Is it good play? Probably not, but that's dependant on your position, the information you have about the players on the table and your own table image.

It's a lousy str8 draw as you can never make the best str8 using both these cards. If there's serious action when the str8 is on the board you're very likely to be behind to someone with the top end of what's on. That's just a losing proposition. You may as well be playing 73 and 84.

K or Q paired with either of these on a tight table is highly likely to be dominated so that's not getting you anywhere.

You're better off learning when/where to play 89, 9T and JT than trying to get value from hands that have too much possible liability. But I'm tight like a tight thing so people may disagree.

Iago

I'd agree with you totally, even thinking about hitting that str8 draw is a joke, you're more likely or at least just as likely to hit a poker on the flop as you are to hit your str8!!

This is all just stemming from my frustration of Sunday night, I threw away so many hands correctly and would have made a full winning hand had I played. I know it was the right thing to do, but it still irritates me.

Thankfully I didn't go on tilt, or I may have gone home a lot earlier than I did.

I think when they are suited though and it's Q8 or K9 it's harder to throw them away, presuming there hasn't been too much action.

And your right the whole 89, 910, 10J is a much more pressing question, but then I would nearly always limp in with them anyway and throw them away if a raise is placed before it reaches me and they're not suited...

DeVore

This is all just stemming from my frustration of Sunday night, I threw away so many hands correctly and would have made a full winning hand had I played. I know it was the right thing to do, but it still irritates me.

I've joked before that you know when its a really bad night cos the hands you put down still dont hit!

You need to shelve that irritation... I know the feeling only too well trust me! You might be self-disciplined enough not to go on tilt regarding your starting hands but I've often found that mid pair starts to look pretty sexy after the flop if you havent had any action for a long time! It can manifest itself a number of ways... personally I make frustration bets that I regret 2 seconds later!

DeV.