50 quid a hand.... :(

DeVore

Played in the 100-in that everyone has been saying is really good in the Fitz. It does seem like a top-quality field but we've played them all in the 20-in before.

Two hands were played that just blew the table away, both involved me
I'll recount them here, see what you would have done (if you like, respond before you read the spoiler answers.... which you do by selecting the text with the mouse)



Hand 1.
You have 4000 chips and blinds are at 25-50.
Its a community pot pre-flop and I play with J10o. I hit J,10,x with two diamonds which are no help to me. I'm second to act and UTG puts 750. Now I was going to slow play them but this guy (and my call or raise) will scare everyone else out. I raise to 1500 cos now I want the hand over and I want to get paid by the guy UTG who I put on AJ.

Its folded around to Pat who is dealer. Pat knows I can be bullied at times and also knows I play top hands mostly. I generally dont bluff that much. He goes all-in. He's quickly called by UTG.

I'm in shock, as is the table. We're 3 hands into the 100 euro freeze out!
What would you do??

After vacilating for about 2 minutes I do what I know I have to do, which is to put the hand down and wave bye bye to my 1500 chips. I have no choice but this course of action. Pat might be bullying me (and he was, with a nut flush draw) but the guy UTG isnt kidding, he just called an All-In which came over a re-raise when I still have to act after him. He cant be taking the mick and must have either 10,10 or JJ to do what he's doing. At best he might have the same hand as me. I muck my top two pair and sure enough he has a pair of hooks.

Hand 2.
You have 2400 chips and blinds are at 25-50.
I am UTG and I look to see AQ. Very pretty but all the same I'm in early position. Time to see what the flop brings and mug someone maybe. I just call as do about 6 others but BB puts it up to 750 to play. I play and noone else does.

The flop comes A83 rainbow. BB is now first to act and bets all in.
What do you do?

I called him. I figure my weakness by only calling initially might make him think I'm worried about a kicker or was holding mid-high pair or KQ. Conversely I put him on AJ,10 or more likely a mid-high pair JJ's say... and now he's representing the Ace cos he missed.

There are seven hands that can beat me.
AA - Unlikely given one on the board, one in my hand and 6 calls preflop on a tight table.
88 - This is a scare hand, he could have it (it fits his play) but then I'll get beat and thats poker.
AK - BB with AK? Could happen but would he bet 700 on it, seems an odd bet.
33 - No chance he turned down a free flop to bully people out with this...
A8,A3, 83 - (I forgot about these when writing this initially... I dont put him on any of those as none are raising hands to that many callers).

I'm down to half my stack and I dont think I'll see as good an opportunity to double through again.... so I call. He has AK and I'm awalkin'....
On reflection I should have considered the possibility that he had AK but honestly, would you have dropped AQ in that position?

So there you have it. The big boys play rough and for keepies, but I have a feeling I'll be back and wearing a frock made *entirely* from rabbits feet.

DeV.

Lafortezza

Ok I didn't read the spoilers so here's my thoughts:

Hand 1:
Guy under the gun has AJ, maybe KJ suited or something, Pat has nut flush draw and either wants to end the hand right there or else get paid by hitting the flush.
UTG player might have hit trips on flop with small pocket pair after calling the all-in so quickly.
Thats the danger of having a community pot with lots of people seeing the flop, they could have *anything*.

Hand 2:
BB could definitely be on a steal/bluff after that many limpers.
unlikely to raise with A3 like that , but maybe he had A8 suited and hit 2 pair on the flop. A small chance that he had a pocket pair of eights or threes. If he had Aces he might have made a slightly smaller raise to get 2 or 3 callers and hope the flop comes rags.

I would guess that he was ona total bluff, and just trying to push you off the pot. But probably hit the turn and river to beat you!

careca

I DID read the spoiler.

I would not have had the chance to play the second hand as I would have been walking after the first. Would def have put Pat on a flush draw but like you would have put UTG on AJ and I would have called. Great muck by you DeV.

If the oppurtunity arose to play the second hand I again would have called. you were hoping to hit an ace and when one comes you can't back off.

I would say good play just unlucky.

edited by DeV to add spoilers to keep the score from those that dont read the answers...

Hyzepher

Haven't read the spoiler.

Hand 1

I would fold - too much risk for the sake of 2 pair - flush draw or possible set is too risky to bet all your stack on one hand.

Hand 2

I would probably of called the all-in. If I had decided to call the 750 then the flop that came was the one I was looking for - Top pair Q kicker. Otherwise there was no point in calling the 750 pre-flop.

Hyzepher

Davey Devil

Ha - Can't wait to see the answer - Danger in both situations but I'm calling on both.

First situation I'd be optimistic and hope nobody hit trips, although it looks very likely. You could improve to a house also so it's not all bad news if you are behind. You might also gather that my tournament strategy is loose at best. God I love a gamble.

Second one you have to call, I think if he had 2 pair or Ace King he wouldn't bet so strong. I'd say he had pocket King's or Queens.

Now let's see how wrong I am.

Edit: Haha looks like I'm out on the first hand, ah well that's poker for ya. Did Pat make the flush?

DeVore

Some further answers here....

Pat didnt hit his flush and I had no way to make a house without giving Mr JJ a better house or a poker. Runner runner 10's would have made me a poker (and a BJ from Liv Tyler ) but that would have been my only out in this particular case...

DeV.

Davey Devil

Yeah I know you couldn't make a better house - when i wrote about the house i was presuming he hit trips with low pocket pair.

Very unlucky on both cases especially the second one. There's no way I'd ever have him on AK.

How many tables were playing Dev?

DeVore

BEYOND HERE THERE ARE SPOILERS





4 full tables. They all seemed surprised at that. Prize for first was 2K!

I know it was hard luck and I was happy with myself for putting down the J10 when the signs were there. Pat came storming back up on a run of good cards though so I left and he was at about 2K... I seem to just be consistently getting good cards that run into big hands lately...

DeV.

gerire

Dev I must say I mightnt have gotten past the first hand, but played. I pointed you out to Lafortezza when you were in the tank the first time, and saw the look of relief when you saw you had made the right decision to throw the hand..

Personaly I had a Good confidence building night overall, I have no nails left as I was clinging on for 95% of the night. I dont think I played any hand that didnt involve me being all in to play the hand and see cards I dont like this as its creaping into my game a fair bit lately.:dunno:
Hung on to the final table and was 3rd lowest stackish, The other lower stacks went all in and atleast doubled through, so blinds ate me and I was out making a febel stand at the end with pair 10's even though there was already over cards on show.

Lafortezza

Originally posted by gerire
Personaly I had a Good confidence building night overall, I have no nails left as I was clinging on for 95% of the night. I dont think I played any hand that didnt involve me being all in to play the hand and see cards I dont like this as its creaping into my game a fair bit lately.:dunno:
Hung on to the final table and was 3rd lowest stackish,

Its always a good thing if you're not getting decent hole cards and maybe haven't got a good feel for the table (like I hadn't on monday), to get to the final table. Having a small stack the whole night long and surviving is alot more strenuous mentally then being able to coast with a big stack through a run of crappy cards. you seemed very patient at the first table we were on with all those scary cash game players

Civilian_Target

You were definitely beat in the first hand Dev, and right to fold. It's similar to the age old KK in hand and ace on the flop scenario. You get raised and, painful as it is, you have to throw (happened to me last week).

The second call was a tough one, I don't know if I would have called or not, its just one of those calls you have to be there to make.

Finally a heads up, if anyone here is from Belfast there's a holdem tournament taking place on Friday in the Queens Staff Common Room (above the Ulster Bank on University Road) so I might see some of you's there....

MrPudding

Originally posted by Civilian_Target

Finally a heads up, if anyone here is from Belfast there's a holdem tournament taking place on Friday in the Queens Staff Common Room (above the Ulster Bank on University Road) so I might see some of you's there....

Can't make it this time but let us know if there are any others planned.

MrP

gerire

Originally posted by lafortezza
I Having a small stack the whole night long and surviving is alot more strenuous mentally, you seemed very patient at the first table we were on with all those scary cash game players

I dont know about others but patience is a huge factor in my poker play. In the 250 game last month I reckon I threw something like 25 srtaight hands and it only cost me the blinds till I hit something something I could play. I found that out that night, Winning a big hand at the start of the night is not much to you when the blinds are 2 times that aammount later on. Yes you can build on it but in theory its all sitting tight.

I just remembered I did play a hand early on when we were moved from the 1st table I got 77 the first hand I played, and put in a big bet, Teddy a manager or director I think, went all in for his hge stack of 8k, I only had 3.5k at this stage. I did call and hit a 7 on the turn but that hand involved me being all in. So my big piece of advice Ive learnt over the last few weeks is that if you are wlling to bet it be willing to lose everything on it cause those cash players will force you to make tough calls in your mind, its nothing to them its a hell of a lot more to me.