VB/ASP/SQL/.VB certification path

RicardoSmith

Anyone have any links to the certification path for VB/ASP/.VB/SQL etc. Anyone do it can give me some advice on what to do. I've about 2yrs coding experience, but want to formalize it so to speak.

bonkey

www.microsoft.com/mcp ??

RicardoSmith

Originally posted by bonkey
www.microsoft.com/mcp ??

Thanks. So just buy a MS book on the certification path and turn up and do the exam?

str8_away

RicardoSmith
I am thinking of doing the same thing.
Do you know where to do the exams in Dublin/Ireland ?

bonkey

I've had a rough day, so forgive me if I seem a bit snippy...

go to the URL. read whats there. It answers your questions.

Read the stuff that tells you what an MCP is (as well as MCSE, MCSD, MSDBA, and whatever other qualifications they have running these days) and what you need to do to get it.

Read the stuff which tells you what exams are currently available,

Read the stuff thats under each exam entry which tells you about the scope of the exam, the format of the exam, and what MS recommends as preparation options - both self-help and course-based.

Read the stuff thats also there about where to do the exams, how to book them, what they cost, and pretty much everything you want.

When you've actually read all of that stuff, then ask some "real" questions about what you need to know.

Right now, the questions being asked are on par with the "will you do my homework" ones that one sees far too often in this forum.

Because if ye had read the link, you wouldn't be asking teh questions you're asking.

jc

str8_away

Thanks for your reply bonkey,

Yes, you are right I did not read all pages on that link, if I did I would not ask the question I asked. You are also right about the answer for my question is on that link, which took me about 20 minutes to find by the way

People ask questions for many reasons, some don't understand idea, some don't know where to find the answer, some don't have time and some are just lazy. In my case, I simply did not have the time to find it earlier on today. So I ask.

These days most of answer you need for programming are out there somewhere on the internet if you spend enough time to find it. I have spend 3-4 days searching the net to find my answers in the past.

I understand you had a rough day but if you are just going to tell people to find their own answers then why do we have this forum? Why not just have a big link to google instead?

Remember one thing, there is no stupid questions only stupid answers.

bonkey

Originally posted by str8_away
You are also right about the answer for my question is on that link, which took me about 20 minutes to find by the way

Yup. But my attitude is that if you're not willing/able to spend half an hour or so learning about what it is you want to study....you're kidding yourself about studying it in the first place.

Oh - and for future reference...if you click on "Microsoft Certifications" on the left hand "menu" of the link I gave you, it will bring you to http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcpexams/default.asp which has direct links to everything you'll want - how/where/what for pretty much everything.

In my case, I simply did not have the time to find it earlier on today. So I ask.

And I respect that....now that I know about it.

Its just unbelievably annoying to be get a vibe of "thanks for the last answer, and here's another question that shows I haven't actually bothered using the answer I've just thanked you for".

Like I said...I was a bit snippy, but come on....if it was that urgent that you get the answers, how hard would it have been to say something "thanks for the reply, but I don't have time to read all that right now but need/want to know X....could you possibly point me at a more specific area"

I understand you had a rough day but if you are just going to tell people to find their own answers then why do we have this forum? Why not just have a big link to google instead?

OK...I'm not a moderator here, but the general vibe is that when you have a question, you should be able to show what you've done, where you're stuck, etc. etc. etc.

What I got from this thread was "how do I do X"..."OK...you've told me how to do X...now how do I do some specific subpart of X thats almost definitely contained in the information you've already given me, but which I amn't going to look for".

Like I pointed out, it read more like a "please do my homework for me" question, rather than "I can't get my homework done, but here's what I've done so far, and here's where I'm stuck...please help".

Remember one thing, there is no stupid questions only stupid answers.

Nice idea. Shame about the practice.

jc

RicardoSmith

Well I was kinda hoping for more of a dicussion over which certs people have done and why they choose to do the ones they did. For example you might have decided to do a mix or certs to broaden your skill set or to enrich your CV. I was interested in finding out how people prepared for them, home study, did you do a class, did you do CBT, pretest etc.

Maybe my question was poorely phrased, but bonkey yours was a lazy response. You always have the choice of not responding to a post, and forums do not exist for your stress relief. That said at least you replied, and that is always appreciated, but your throwing this thread off topic now.

aidan_walsh

Originally posted by RicardoSmith
Anyone have any links to the certification path for VB/ASP/.VB/SQL etc.

Originally posted by bonkey
www.microsoft.com/mcp ??

Hardly fair to blame bonky... If you want a discussion, ask for one. As it was, you asked for links. And if your refering to his second responce, I don't see how thats lazy either... If all the answers are on the page, read the bloody page... What were you looking for, an executive summary?

RicardoSmith

I explained what I was looking for. Whats an executive summary?

bonkey

Originally posted by RicardoSmith
Well I was kinda hoping for more of a dicussion over which certs people have done and why they choose to do the ones they did. For example you might have decided to do a mix or certs to broaden your skill set or to enrich your CV. I was interested in finding out how people prepared for them, home study, did you do a class, did you do CBT, pretest etc.

Fair enough.

The only extra-university qualifications I've gotten have been those that a current employer has requested I get. I've only ever kept them up to date while an employer has wanted me to do so.

In my experience, there are no programming certifications on hte market which are worth the paper (real or virtual) that they're printed on, and in interviews I'm generally suspicious of any applicant who actually puts weight behind their programming qualifications, or indeed who expects more money because they have them.

At best, given two applicants who are otherwise indistinguishable, I would use the exams as a decider....but other than that....

I've done all of my exams using self-paced training, invariably in the form of a book written for the exam (typically the MS Press ones for MCP exams). It won't get you 100%, but the book - coupled with some experience - is invariably enough to pass well if you know your stuff.

jc

RicardoSmith

The reasons I want to do it is that my programming experience is essentially self taught and though I've lots of experience, its been on big development teams where you tend to specialise on one area or your experience too specific to the job that you are doing.

For example, while I have written lots of VB and VBA and worked with MS SQL I have never done it for Access. So while I know the object model is slighly different and obviously like all VBA it has it quirks I would be able to write a solution for it. But I get passed over for roles involving access because its not on my CV. Same with MS SQL, While I have worked on big ASP/MS SQL systems writing queries, working with stored procs and trouble shooting applications, I haven't done much writing of stored proc's or anything on the design and development of a MS SQL db itself. So theres a gap in my skillset right there. In fact when I do any of the pretests I find myself getting 80-90% in some areas and 20% in others. Which just shows that theres gaps in what I know.

Some people say you should just bluff on you CV and in the interview. But I don't want to do that. Also many positions now require you do sit a pretty tricky technical exam for the role. Obviously this is exactly the kinda of a test I do poorly at. Give me a project and a day to do it and I'll figure it out and get a solution. But if somebody wants me to the list the properties of a particular control in an exam, I wouldn't have a clue.

So I'm thinking a solution to all of this would be to do the certification exams, with the intention of filling in these gaps in my skillset, help me with these technical exams and also have to fill these on the CV etc. Its going to be hard though because I haven't done exams in a looooong time. I was wondering what approach other took to the exams. I'm thinking of just buying the MS books, putting aside some study time and then having a bash of a few certs.

I should add that I'm in this position because I spent a good fews years in roles where the company didn't provide training, and alot of the systems were proprietory. I was too busy too look up and realise that my own skillset was in decline the longer I stayed in the same job. The wakeup call came when new development projects came in, the internal staff didn't get the projects, because we didn't have an up to date skillset, instead the projects were given to new hires or consultants. Since then I've left and have been contracting but obviously you have to do your own training. Because to keep getting contracts you have to keep your skillset current with the latest trends and developments.

Hence this post.

bonkey

Originally posted by RicardoSmith
Some people say you should just bluff on you CV and in the interview. But I don't want to do that.

And fair play to you. But what I'm driving at is that the qualification won't convince many employers that you actually know the stuff....at least not in my experience.

Also many positions now require you do sit a pretty tricky technical exam for the role.

I know. I wrote one for my last Irish employer.

But if somebody wants me to the list the properties of a particular control in an exam, I wouldn't have a clue.

Nor would I. And doing the MCP exams won't really fill in that much of a gap in that respect. After all, why do you think the companies are setting their own tecnical exam rather than making an internationally-recognised qualification a pre-requisiste? Its not because their exam is easier.....

So I'm thinking a solution to all of this would be to do the certification exams, with the intention of filling in these gaps in my skillset,

They might. I just honestly think you're over-rating the value of the qualifications. That said...maybe I'm under-rating them.

jc

RicardoSmith

Well the alternative is a catch 22. Can't get a job to get experience without experience.

Some of the technical exams interviews, especially the computer based ones seem to be based on the MS ones. But I've yet to see one where they give you a project and let you do and come back with it. We used to do that for our internal recuritment, but I haven't see that in a long time.

I'd assume they don't get many people with MCP's. I worked in a place before that had about 150 developers and not one of them was MCP. Most people don't bother with them when they are working. Its only contractors that really bother with them. Thats only my experience though.

I'm really only using them to drive my revision. I've a tech exam in ASP/MS SQL soon, and I haven't used it in well over a year, I've working in support and VBA development. So I'm hoping it will all come flooding back!

bonkey

Originally posted by RicardoSmith
Well the alternative is a catch 22. Can't get a job to get experience without experience.

Ot is possible to code stuff for yourself, your own amusement, or just as a learning exercise though.

Then you can honestly put down on your CV that you have experience with it....you just don't have paid experience.

For anything web-related, its often a good idea to throw together a webby for yourself with different sections designed using different skill-sets and with some info somewhere referencing what is done where. That way you can always point a potential employer at it (via your cv) and say "I made this".

Its an option worth thinking about....it depends how much real experience you want to have when you say "I know this", or if the qualification is going to be enough. Personally, I'd put experience first every time...but your mileage may vary.

jc

ReefBreak

I'm looking to do the MCAD exams over the next couple of months to "prove" to employers that I know .NET - which I do, even though I haven't had any commercial experience. Does anyone know where they can be done in Dublin? I did some MCPS in a place called Sylvan Prometric before, but I can't seem to find any trace of them in Dublin on the web.

The exams I did were the VB and SQL Server MCP exams (back in 97/98), and they certainly helped my job prospects when I went to Australia for a year. Haven't done any since though. Of course, real commercial experience is always better, but it's certainly the best way of getting out that catch 22 situation mentioned above.

bonkey

Reef - anyone who does MCP exams should offer the necessary exams for the MCAD qualification.

If you check that second link I gave and take the "register for an exam" option (or something like that) it will take you through what you need.

There's two testing "groups" authorised by MS : Pearson VUE and Prometric (previously Sylvan Prometric). Either should have test-sites in Dublin.

Best bet is to start with that link, and go through it from there.

jc

B0rG

As said earlier: Prometric and VUE.

I started with Prometric, now see no reason to switch to VUE - just another spammer on my business communication e-mail. They have a bunch of test centers in Dublin, practically for each day of the week. So far I was in Calyx.ie and Driving Test Center on Parnell St. Calyx was better - better equipment, nicer place and so on. But unfortunately they only do MS exams on Fridays. And I do exams on Mondays

Now taking the MCSD.NET C# route.

RicardoSmith

Thanks for the info. What sort of study, schedule do you have?

amen

Hi

I'm starting the MCP in C#
if you/me have questions/probs how posting/pm them ?
a problem shared etc

e