millionaire?

djtjob

hi

just wondering do people out there live near millionaires or ar millionaires themselves.

if so could they post how they made that million

cheers

b20uvkft6m5xwg

Tom Clancy lives 2 floors above me. Presume he made millions from writing books.

Arent millionaires a dime a dozen these days in Ireland. Surely you wouldnt need to look that hard!

--
Dont ask how I'm living in this building, but I'm not a millionaire.

conorb56

Property has made people millionaires!
Some speculators have made money from nothing in property, in that they were able to put a deposit on an apartment bought off the plans and werent required to pay the balance until the finish of construction, ie. 12 months later, ie. 15% increase in property value, ie sell at profit!

b20uvkft6m5xwg

House prices set to soar by 15 per cent
http://www.thepost.ie/web/DocumentView/did-211514036-pageUrl--2FThe-Newspaper-2FSundays-Paper.asp

16/05/04 00:00
By Eamon Quinn

Boom conditions are continuing in the housing market, with prices set to soar by up to 15 per cent this year, according to leading commentators.

Well looks like there will be more paper millionaire by the end of the year too!

alleepally

The Sunday Tribune published Ireland's Rich List a while back and a hell of a lot made their money in property so that seems to be the way to go alright. There is a train of thought that says you're not really a millionaire until you've given away a million to charity.

There is a book called the Luck Factor which makes for interesting reading and I suspect if one were to analyse how people made their millions a lot of it is based on luck. Luck in being in the right place at the right time, luck in taking a job and meeting someone who put you on a path to meet important people etc.

ur mentor

copying how people made a million may not work.
many property millionaires own property for many years, having bought it for less than 100k 5 years ago. however they cant sell their property as they only have one home. this then is a paper millionaire.
Being a millionaire on paper does not make you rich. It may make you feel good.

The real key to making money is to have something that is available to be sold to persons or companies with money.#

conorb56

Paper money? What about the fact that it means equity and gives you borrowing power, hence acquire more property

mrterry

Know quite a few millionaires myself.

A good business is whats required to be a millionaire a good idea work hard something with high profit margins.

Secondly property buy buy buy and keep buying and watch the miracle of compound interest it is the only loan (apart from business loan) that the bank will give u a loan for at relatively cheap money. The more money u can get of a bank the better and if a crash happens just ride out the storm.

Myself as i am quite young i intend to buy a pad every year for the next 10 years which should enable me to reach my goal of not having to work for someone in 10 years time. My property will be well profitable at that stage. Will invest in places that make economic sense too IE: pull a profit in immediatly after i buy somewhere that doesnt become a cash drain. At moment prop. in ireland is a cash drain so feck that im going to get my 7-8% yields come hell rain or water. Of course i will not be buying a apt. here as i couldnt afford to my job doesnt pay that much. But overall with sound investment techniques stocks and property it should be possible to get to where i want to be in less than 10 years.

Think of it like this if you have a 1000 euro mortgage and inflation goes at 3% over the next 20 years (length of mortgage ) then 3% * 20 = 60% depreciation of the 1000 euros which means it is 400 euros at the end of the term while ur rental is increasing a similiar if not a more figure. This is know rocket science its basic financial knowledge.

Anyone can be a millionaire if they want to be. Its how many millions u want...

alleepally

there's a problem with your plan mrterry in that rent yields are going down at the moment, not up..

but good luck to you anyway and hope you reach your goal...me, i'd just like to own my own home one day.

conorb56

mrterry, any ideas on where you can get 7-8% yield, i would be very interested

ionapaul

Posting as a historian and having a keen interest in economic history, just a warning to everyone seeing the last 10 years of growth in property values as some sign that that is definitely the way to go in the future - since over time equities tend to over-perform in comparison to property, it might be the case that after such a boom time in property, slow times are ahead. Just a thought.

Plus those of you banking on soaring property prices please give a thought to the upcoming referendum...the last thing you people would want is to scare away immigrants from Ireland, they are the only chance that soaring prices will continue. Ireland's birth rate is declining year over year and there are less and less Irish born 20-somethings buying property each year. Yet house building has increased in recent years. 60% being bought for rental/investment purposes!!!!!! Without large scale immigration, the bottom will drop out of the property market at some stage, maybe not this year, or next year, but some time.

Maybe I am wrong though...if I was a betting man I would have a small gamble on a housing price mini-crash within the next two years...I just can't see the renters continuing to arrive to fill up the rooms in all the new houses being bought for 400k a pop.

djtjob

hi

thanks for the replies

does anyone no of millionaires besides investing in property

ionapaul

My ex's dad made a few millionare a year as a hedge fund manager/owner. Based in the US. He was a professor of finance (far east investment speciality) for most of his life and only started doing this recently. Also took many exams in his earlier days qualifying as an investment/financial advisor.
A family friend based in the San Francisco Bay Area also makes a few million a year as an investment advisor, investing on behalf of his rich friends/clients.
Wealth management is the way to go - learn how to make rich people even richer, and take a nice cut of the top, and commission whether their wealth increases or not! The world of financial services is where ALL the money is, either that or running your own successful business, no-one knows you on the street yet you could buy and sell a 1000 Bonos, The Edges, David Beckham in a heartbeat.

Check out Wall Street and learn to be Gordon Gecko...:)

djtjob

What exactly is a hedge fund manager/owner?

What other avenues could we try?

ionapaul

Well, there are few easy ways to go out becoming a millionare...here are some ideas

One: Start your own business, work 80 hours a week (and of course 7 days a week) at it for the first few years to make sure it is a success (most new businesses fail despite all the hard work), and save, save, SAVE.

Two: Go back to/stay in college and either become a doctor, then a consultant (say 10 years of study altogether) or a corporate lawyer (say 5 years?) or do a business degree, work for a few years, and then do an MBA (masters business administration). Consultants (particularly in specialities like plastic surgery, dermatology, etc...) make a lot of money. Corporate lawyers work very long hours and make a lot of money. Investment bankers (all of whom should have MBAs) work very long hours (but less and less as they climb the ladder) and make a lot of money.

Most important thing to do if you want to become a millionare (without making a million a year, that is) is save, save, SAVE. Studies in the US have shown that most self-made millionares live below their means, do not show off their wealth, and know how to invest wisely. If you are making 150,000 year but have a mortgage on a 750,000 house, buy a new Lexus every 2 years, etc...the guy making 70,000 year but living in a middle-class area and driving a 7 year old Mondeo could easily be worth more on paper after 10 years than you are.

If there was some easy way to become a millionare everyone would be one. Hard work, living below your means, and sound investment strategies are your best bet. Some people I know save over 15k a year on a 30k annual strategy (don't drink, don't smoke, save live crazy) - they will be millionares by the time they are 50, if they can keep it up

alleepally

And don't let money become an obsession. You can't take it with you.

Oh yeah, about hedge fund managers... It's "only their job" but they make life difficult for the rest of us... Have a good read of this my friend...


http://channels.netscape.com/ns/pf/story.jsp?idq=/ff/story/0002/20040519/0749382555.htm&photoid=20040318CHI01D

phoenix2181

On paper I could be considered to be a millionaire
a lot of friends of mine would be very wealthy..some would be multi... & guess where we got all this money?
you guessed it it!

Property!

ionapaul

While I worked in San Francisco just before the bubble burst, paper millionares were a dime a dozen. That is no exaggeration, I knew dozens, all on stock options. But since almost all never exercised their options before the decline, and so never lived the millionare lifestyle, it never affected any of them once they were back down to regular punter status!
Taught me a lesson I plan to use next time this happens (and of course it will happen again, in property right now and in stocks some time in the next few decades) - buy in while the hype is good, and once every single person starts becoming afraid they are missing out, SELL SELL SELL and put it in the bank!
At least if property prices crash people will still have nice homes - when stocks crash you are left with nothing...

mrterry

5 - 6% gauranteed in french leaseback.

More riskier eastern europe Poland etc 7%.

Dubai advertised as 10% at the moment in the paper whether this is realistic is another thing i tend to knock off 2% with associated charges.

Prop. in south africa appreciated at 22% last year however interest rates at 15% so thats a big chunk out. West of london best returns 7-8%.

Etc etc...

rabbitinlights

A friend of mine is a family friend of JP McManus, he is as far as i remember the only person in any rich list that made his money from Gambling. Quite impressive

The Luck of the Irish.

Nice guy though, very quite.

jank

Property will crash at some stage!
Its just a matter od time when and how bad. DO you honestly think people can buy 300-400k houses on average wages of 25-30k a year!!
And its rising all the time. I just hope it happens in a year or 2 when im on a semi good wage so i can get a pad of my own (baby steps first!!)

Specky

only person in any rich list that made his money from Gambling

Oh I don't know about that. Anyone who makes money from investments is gambling, it's just that in some types of investment the odds are more favourable than in others.

Really though, people who make their money from sports gambling (horse racing for instance) make money not because THEY gamble but because everyone else does. If there weren't so many suckers out there feeding the betting industry there wouldn't be a betting industry and no-one would make money from it.

Anywaye, there's no formula to becoming "rich".

The term millionaire doesn't really have a lot of meaning these days with property prices soaring and the whims of the stock market. You could become a millioaire overnight by doing absolutely nothing if your house value shot up or something mad happened on the ISEC but that might not make you rich unless you were then able to realise that potential wealth.

No point having a house worth a million if you have to live in it (or another house also worth a million). Sure it'll be nice for your kids but it doesn't make YOU rich.

Hard work can make you rich but often doesn't.

Good business ideas can make you rich but often don't (plenty of good products never get off the ground, plenty of crap ones go on to make gazzillions).

You can become rich by being talented but not always (one word....Westlife...or is that two words..?)

If your aim in life is to become rich then I suppose the best thing to do is put yourself into a position where the opportunities to become rich will be plentiful ie get a good education in a subject that is currently high on the money making ladder...medicine or law for instance, go to a college where you can establish a network of peers who will be amongst the elite of the future, keep your ear to the ground and get involved in other people's ideas, lots of them, as many as you can.

Alternatively you could just decide that you want to be happy in life. Chose the things that you want to do because you like doing them and find a way to do them as much as you can whilst supporting yourself comfortably in whatever way is most appropriate. Chance and an enterprising mind may still make you rich but you won't have thrown away your life in pursuit of a false dream of magical wealth that you may or may not achieve.

djtjob

thanks for all the replies.

it was very interesting.

i know a fella who is a millionaire and he made it through furniture.
any more ideas guys?

conorb56

The guy who owns IKEA is one of the richest in the world.
There is also Michael Flatley, but you would have to learn to dance.
Ireland is in definite need of a decent coffee shop chain

The list goes on

full forward

If you have 30k to spend you can buy shares worth 30k. They might go up 10% in value which would give you 3k profit.

If however you use the 30k as a deposit on a house the bank will give you a low interest loan for the rest so you will have a 300k house. If this goes up 10% in value you make 30k profit. Thats 10 times more than shares! In the mean time you are earning a grand a month rent. Property is hard to beat.

Tip.
Lets say you own an investment property which has doubled in value. If you sold the house you would have to pay 20% capital gains tax on the profit. If you remortgage the house it will cost just 3.3% interest. You can then use the money to find another investment. This system is partally to blame for continuing prices rises.

But I believe buying property is a real skill now. You need to look at 30 houses for each one you buy. Do your research.

silverside

your 30k would just about cover the stamp duty. Then you have to pay solicitors fees, furnish the house, do a tax return on the rent, and look after any problems, all from a gross yield of only about 4% (which should just about cover the mortgage until interest rates rise).

I think the time for investment in Irish rental property is over, unless you can make it a full-time job.

b20uvkft6m5xwg

Originally posted by jank
Property will crash at some stage!
Its just a matter od time when and how bad. DO you honestly think people can buy 300-400k houses on average wages of 25-30k a year!!

Not likely but I think we may see a different fianancial structure applied to mortgages akin to the likes of Japan where they pay for mortagages over 2 generations for example.

ionapaul

But there is a bigger downside to property as well, remember that! If you buy 30k in shares and they plummet in value, you are left with nothing. If you use the 30k to get a 300k mortgage, housing prices fall 10%, you still have to pay the 300k PLUS interest LESS mortgage relief on a house that is worth 270k. If rents also fall (as they have been doing outside Dublin city centre for the past year) you have an ongoing drain on your cash AS WELL as negative equity! If house prices fall 20%, 30%, etc you lose that much more. Whereas shares could fall 100% in value and at least you can wipe your hands clean of the whole mess.

Look at the Fortune 500 and see how many more are there because of smart equity investments rather than property (even discounting those who made their money off one 'lucky' stock, such as Bill Gates - the second richest on the list is the world's most famous value invester, the Oracle of Omaha, Warren Buffett) - historically equities give a higher rate of return than property worldwide. Buying an investment property in Ireland now is like buying into the Nasdaq in March 2001, get ready to lose some money in the short term.

full forward

stamp duty on 300k is 15k (5%)
you can get a 95% mortgage so you pay 15k deposit.
most of the stuff for the house can be found in buy and sell.
interest in the early stages of a morgage is very high and this is an expense which can be written off against the rent.

My point is it can wash its own face is you know what your're at. And rent will go up over time. It always has and it always will.

ionapaul

I'm not saying property is a bad investment in general, I just wonder about buying in Ireland now or during the next few years. I think people could get badly burned - and despite the doomsayers out there, in the papers there are lots of articles still urging people to buy now and get on the property ladder - am I the only person that thinks these articles are extremely suspect in the Irish Times or Indo's property segment, beside all the lovely advertising on behalf on property companies and banks offering mortgages! Talk about vested interests...

Rents will continue to go up over the long term, at least in line with inflation - however, over the short term they have been going down in Ireland, and no doubt will continue to go down, while interest rates will definitely go up. The real way to ensure the rents and housing prices will continue to rise is the ensure a continuing population boom in Ireland - encourage mass migration from Eastern Europe, let all the asylum seekers work maybe, as currently the amount of children being born in Ireland is not enough.

djtjob

any more tips please
and besides property