National Car Test

PBC_1966

Hi everyone,

I've been browsing here for a few weeks and found several topics interesting, so I decided it was time to join in.

Of particular interest are your posts about the new NCT in Ireland. As I'm sure many of you are aware, over here in the U.K. we've had the MoT vehicle inspection for many yeras, so it's natural to try to draw comparisons.

A specific item: One website I was reading mentioned that the electrical part of the NCT includes a check that any add-on accessories have been wired through the ignition switch. Can anyone confirm that this is the case? If so, I can see no logical reason for this, and if someone wires his radio permanently live I really don't see how that in any way is related to the roadworthiness of the car.

A couple of things which I particularly like about the way the inspection has been implemented in Ireland are:

1. That vintage cars have been exempted. That saves a lot of trouble for old-car enthusiasts, especially since many of the modern test items simply don't apply. It also removes the problem which sometimes crops up in Britain of a new-generation MoT inspector who really doesn't understand old cars and in many cases doesn't even realize that the official rules don't require certain things on cars manufactured before a particular date.

2. That the NCT test centers are independent, rather than being government-approved garages as is the case here. That removes any possibility of a garage deliberately failing a borderline (or not-so-borderline) vehicle in the hope of getting a nice profit out of the "repairs." Such accusations are far from uncommon here.

Best wishes,
Paul
Norfolk, England

dahamsta

Originally posted by PBC_1966
That vintage cars have been exempted.

I did not know that. Do you happen to know offhand their definition of "vintage"? 20 years presumably?

That the NCT test centers are independent, rather than being government-approved garages as is the case here. That removes any possibility of a garage deliberately failing a borderline (or not-so-borderline) vehicle in the hope of getting a nice profit out of the "repairs." Such accusations are far from uncommon here.

We have plenty of accusations of intentional failures to raise revenue from retests though. I've seen mentions of internal memos from on-high, but surprisingly haven't heard anything more of it.

adam

PBC_1966

Do you happen to know offhand their definition of "vintage"? 20 years presumably?

30 years as I understand it -- The same definition that entitles you to tax a car under the cheap flat-rate vintage class instead of the sliding scale based on engine size.

Good point about the re-tests, I hadn't thought about that one.

unkel

Originally posted by dahamsta
Do you happen to know offhand their definition of "vintage"? 20 years presumably?

30 years

mike65

God I wish it were 20! (only another 6 to go!)

I think the fact the NCT is run by an independent concern is a good idea - nothing so corrupt as a local garage owner with a vested interest!

Mike.

Gmodified

20 years to get your car insured as classic through Carole nash but you still have to do NCT (i think)

and 30 to get cheap tax and no NCT

dahamsta

Originally posted by mike65
I think the fact the NCT is run by an independent concern is a good idea - nothing so corrupt as a local garage owner with a vested interest!

Very true, although as I said there is still room for corruption. Wish I could remember where I'd seen a piece on retesting, think it was on the Motornet forums...

Originally posted by Gmodified
20 years to get your car insured as classic through Carole nash but you still have to do NCT (i think)

Ah, that's where I got the 20 years from, thanks.

TBH I was tempted to buy something >20 yo, but car owners in Ireland seem to get the idea that as soon as their cars hits, for example, 20yo, it's a "classic". Whereas of course invariably it's just a 20yo heap of shít. Very little room there for someone who'd just like to customise something, uh, odd.

Another question: I seem to remember reading somewhere that you couldn't get classic insurance from Carole Nash unless the the car was a second car, is that right?

adam

Gmodified

unless the the car was a second car, is that right?

right,

you have to have existing policy in your name , before CN will insure you

PBC_1966

My experience with British insurance companies is that they vary widely on what is considered "classic" or "vintage." (As well as varying widely on quotes.)

By the way, a few years ago the UK Govt. introduced a road-tax exempt category for vintage cars. The plan was to exempt cars as they turned 25 years old. Then in 1998 they quietly changed the rules so that it would no longer be a "rolling" exemption, so only cars made up to 1973 are exempt now.

In typical underhand fashion, the govt. made a big announcement about the exempt class when it was introduced, and said nothing publicly about the later change which prevented cars being exempted at 25.

Unfortunately, pre-1973 cars still need an annual MoT inspection here, unless they fall into some other special category (based on a small island with no test facility and no bridge to mainland etc.)

ToxicPaddy

A little off topic here, but can someone PLEASE tell me, how a blown light on
the back number plate, one of two i might add and the other one is working fine
can possibly be used as an excuse to fail a car on the NCT?????

Everything else is fine on the car, engine, suspension, brakes, windows, lights,
safety belts.. everything, bar one bulb over the back reg plate...

f*ckin idiots :mad:

Tox

lilulila

Hi lads

I have my nct due in june. This is my first year motoring so i havent a clue about things like this. Just wondering does anyone have an idea how much a pre nct will cost. I drive a fiat cinquentio and have only ever had one problem with it ( a seal went on the gearbox) other than that shes ok. I think i might have a prob with one of my wheels though apparently the rim was cutting into the tyre a while ago and i got a new tyre. I asked the fellow in the garage will i get a new one and he said no and i asked will it fail the nct like that he said no ... i just hope hes right. Some people are telling me to let the car go through the nct and wait and see if problems arise but others are saying a pre nct is the way to go. Im trying to find the most cost effective way cause my insurance is due 3 days after the nct so need to save the spondulies. Any tips would be great :O)

Lilu

PBC_1966

A little off topic here, but can someone PLEASE tell me, how a blown light on
the back number plate, one of two i might add and the other one is working fine
can possibly be used as an excuse to fail a car on the NCT?????

Could it be that the rules require all lights originally fitted to the vehicle to be in operating order?

My brother once had an MoT inspector here want to fail him for having a blown warning lamp in the hazard switch! Considering that some cars don't even have such a light, and you can see the hazards operating by both green arrows flashing, it seems rather petty. I think it was another case of the inspector making up his own rules as he went along (and I've had cases where I've had to explain the rules to him!).

ToxicPaddy

well you can still see the number plate clearly at night and its on bulb...

So the number plate can be seen, the car is mechanically perfect and there are no
safety issues...

Makes no sense what so ever....

Tox

Kersh

To get insured by Carole Nash you have to have a second car, and you have to be 30. I actually got a quote off them for a classic and they said I had to be 25/full licence/other car....so I went out and got a car and when I got back onto them I was told I had to be 30 for THAT particular car. They told me I had been misquoted. So thread carefully there.

K2

I had the same problem as Toxic Paddy, only cost 50cent as its a visual re test. The only gripe I would have is the poor hours they make available for these re tests (3 to 4 monday to thursday).

Liluila, I have been thro 3 ncts, passed one, paid for one retest and one foc visual. I would not bother doing a pre test, like most others I reckon its a money making scam by the garages. Just look after the normal maintenance eg brakes, light bulbs (:D I can talk!) and tyres. Most people forget about their shocks and these can be a fail on the test but I've used the nct as an guide to when they should be done. I don't believe you should spend money fixing something which may not be broke, let the nct tell you what has to be done...you never know it may go through it with no fails, thats not unheard of.

lilulila

If the car should fail how long do you get to fix it is it something like 7 days?

Quigs Snr

You have a month.

My test is in an hours time. Just spotted and fixed a rear light bulb blown.

Going to fail on my brakes I think.

K2

had a quick look at the website but could not see mention of it. If you email them info@ncts.ie they will let you know (it does not appear under the faq section).

Victor

Originally posted by Quigs Snr
Going to fail on my brakes I think.

Hang on, you've been going around on brakes that you know aren't up to scratch? :dunno:

Quigs Snr

Nope, as it turns out, brakes are fine, just feel a bit spongy to me. I suppose the car has a lot of torgue and is quite heavy (1.4 tonnes, 200BHP), so it's braking isn't as sharp as my old car which was a small 2 seater.

What I failed on in the end, was not having the county name in irish on my number plate (number plates are nothing special and were on the car from day one, personally I think that if they were non-compulsory at the time of purchase then they shouldn't be allowed to fail you on them. Apart from that they are standard blue/white EU plates, nothing special). Also front tires were worn, so bought 2 yesterday, guess what, on the way to the centre I drove over some bottle, and had a large piece of it in the new tire. Failed on that. Requires a re-test.

Is it possible to have worse luck ?

It is a month by the way for the retest, did my test yesterday and have until 17/06 to retest.

Victor

Originally posted by Quigs Snr
What I failed on in the end, was not having the county name in irish on my number plate (number plates are nothing special and were on the car from day one, personally I think that if they were non-compulsory at the time of purchase then they shouldn't be allowed to fail you on them. Apart from that they are standard blue/white EU plates, nothing special).

County name in irish and EU plate requirements were introduced at the same time.

Quigs Snr

They were obviously not made compulsory at the time. This is the cars 2nd NCT, it has had the same plates since new. The NCT report for the first NCT does not mention anything about plates, no fail advisorys etc..... How this makes a car unroadworthy is beyond me.

Seth Brundle

the NCTS have only been enforcing this law since about September last year, hence why you werent warned on a previous test.

unkel

Originally posted by Quigs Snr
What I failed on in the end, was not having the county name in irish on my number plate

What? - FFS :mad:

That rule is absolutely ridiculous....

Seth Brundle

yes and no - the NCT checks if the car is roadworthy and one of those checks is to ensure that the plates are road-legal.
If there was no enforcement, where do you draw the line?
However, I do think that there are many un-necessary failures for fonts being a few mms short - they could have given a fail/advisory on this for a year or so.

Gurgle

What I failed on in the end, was not having the county name in irish on my number plate

Ah the good old NCT - What a great safety measure, removing the threat of license plates that don't tell what county the car comes from. I know some very very clever people who can figure it out just from the 'D' or the 'MH' etc.

BrianD3

If there was no enforcement, where do you draw the line?

I agree. Basically, your number plates are either legal or they're not. No county name on a post 1991 plate = illegal. And IMO it shouldn't be up to the NCTS to enforce the law on plates. The Gardai should be stopping and fining anyone with illegal plates. No ifs or buts. That's how it works in England, try driving over there with swirly letters etc. on your number plates and you won't go too far without being pulled over.

BrianD3

Victor

Originally posted by Gurgle
Ah the good old NCT - What a great safety measure, removing the threat of license plates that don't tell what county the car comes from. I know some very very clever people who can figure it out just from the 'D' or the 'MH' etc.

Well I've seen this before. :rolleyes:

Gurgle

So if you just wrote 'Baile Atha Cliath' on the top of the plate in permanent marker, you would pass the NCT ?

Originally posted by Victor:
Well I've seen this before.

Whats the point ?
You'll just get a fine for driving around with a defaced number plate.

Besides, you can walk into your local motor factor and order reg. plates with whatever you want on them.

Does anyone remember when the NCT was introduced - It was for safety.
Bullshìt like this has nothing to do with safety.

unkel

Originally posted by BrianD3
it shouldn't be up to the NCTS to enforce the law on plates. The Gardai should be stopping and fining anyone with illegal plates

Exactly, but very sad if they would fine someone over a matter so trivial as the county name in Irish missing

Originally posted by Gurgle
Bullshìt like this has nothing to do with safety.

Indeed - this fits perfectly with the memo sent within the NCT organisation to try and fail more cars :mad:

Quigs Snr

Thing is, I am not into fancy number plates like the boy racers are etc...

My plate is white, it a blue bar saying IRL on the left. This was put on the car from new by the main dealer. It is a D reg, but because no Baile Atha Cliath, its a fail. I totally amazed. I can understand though that they might have to have a catch all policy to cater for all the rather more extreme custom number plates that were doing the rounds.

BrianD3

very sad if they would fine someone over a matter so trivial as the county name in Irish missing

Yes, but as mentioned already where do they draw the line once they start ignoring trivial law breaking. If they let people away with having no irish name on the plate (as required by law) then then they might as well let them away with having no EU symbol either. And sure while they're at it, they can let them put whatever size/type/colour font they like on the plate as long as it's vaguely readable.

This basically describes what has happened with plates in Ireland. Every second car these days seems to have some sort of non-standard plate. They look tacky and are virtually illegible in many cases.

Plates should conform to a certain standard and this standard should be enforced Jesus, it's not such a big thing to ask for. It's only a small piece of metal/plastic on the car bumper that has to conform to the regulations. Doesn't mean we're turning into a police state or anything

Bullshìt like this has nothing to do with safety

What about emissions regulations, they have little or nothing to do with safety either. They're also part of the NCT - are they "Bullshìt" too?

BrianD3

Victor

Originally posted by unkel
Exactly, but very sad if they would fine someone over a matter so trivial as the county name in Irish missing

You mean it's a "technicality". Guess what? The law is technical.

PBC_1966

Did the govt. give any reasons for requiring the Gaelic name, even though the letters are clearly allocated to make it easy to decode the county from the number?

Rules here in Britain about height and spacing of digits have been in place for a long time, but they were tightened up considerably and even the actual font to be used was specified with the recent introduction of the new system.

I've fallen foul of some picky cop in the past with the plates I used on various American cars. Every official I tried to sort it out with suggested I just fit "standard" plates, and I had to keep explaining that there's no way with a 7-digit number you can get the spacings they specify on a standard 12 x 6 U.S. size plate.

By the way, I do like the font style used on the new Irish plates. It looks so much nicer than the ugly one being used on new plates here. You could lose the horrible EU rag (Oh, did I say rag? I meant flag... ) from the left-hand side though. Should such a requirement be introduced here, I'm one of many who will refuse to display the symbol.

Wouldn't you rather have the Irish tricolor, Cross of St. Patrick, or some other Irish emblem instead?

unkel

BrainD3 and Victor you are right of course.

I would be p*ssed off though if they failed my car over something like this. I doubt very much also if anyone has ever gotten fined by Gardai in this country for having a perfectly normal plate with just the county in Irish missing

Jeez, I seem to be more upset than Quigs Snr or maybe it hasn't sunken in yet

Victor

Originally posted by PBC_1966
Every official I tried to sort it out with suggested I just fit "standard" plates, and I had to keep explaining that there's no way with a 7-digit number you can get the spacings they specify on a standard 12 x 6 U.S. size plate.

Whats wrong with a standard UK reg.? Would you insist on an American style British passport?

Originally posted by PBC_1966
Should such a requirement be introduced here, I'm one of many who will refuse to display the symbol.

:rolleyes:

Originally posted by PBC_1966
Wouldn't you rather have the Irish tricolor, Cross of St. Patrick, or some other Irish emblem instead?

Nope - it says "IRL" already.

woosaysdan

my brother was going up the country for his test and he crashed on the way up!!! he asked for the next available date anywhere!!! now thats unlucky!!!

PBC_1966

Whats wrong with a standard UK reg.?

American plates have been a standard 12 x 6" since 1957, and the plate frames, holders, bumper recesses and so on are designed for that size. The long thin U.K. plates just won't fit in many cases. In fact, since my run-in over that several years ago, the regulations here have been changed to allow smaller plates where a conventional UK plate won't fit.

By the way, the whole argument (in both the RoI and the UK) over plates could be settled by adopting the U.S. approach where the plates are officially issued, i.e. pay your registration fee at the DMV, and they hand you the plate(s) to put on the vehicle. (Just so long as they would issue the smaller plates when necessary, of course ).

Re the EU symbol, many people here have already protested at its inclusion on the new driver licenses, and have modified their licenses to eradicate the ring of stars and replace it with a Union Flag. There is an intense and growing hatred of the EU in this country.

Gurgle

Originally posted by BrianD3:
What about emissions regulations, they have little or nothing to do with safety either. They're also part of the NCT - are they "Bullshìt" too?

Let me get this straight, you're suggesting that testing the car for carcenogenic, ozone-destroying gasses is comparable to insisting that the county of issue be spelt out on the plate in Irish ?

Did you think this through ?

Genghis

I dunno, I like the EU registrations - especially on some car from another country, its interesting to be able to identify its origin. I see where you are coming from in the UK, but that is a wider issue (whereas in most of Europe people see the EU as inclusive, and something to be a member of, I sometimes think that UK citizens see it merely in terms of an unwanted empirical-like organisation).

I failed the NCT on the Chontae as ghaelige test too, but it wasn't really any big deal to fix. €8 a pop, stuck them on and had a visual re-test. I was relieved that there wasn't something major wrong with the car that would need replacement - tyres, exhaust system, brake pads, that sort of thing.

Gurgle

OK - A car when first registered is assigned a registration number.
This number specifies unambiguously the year, the county and the car's unique number.

That should be whats required on the license, with specified minimum size, even a font and colour to make sure its readable.

IMO anything beyond that is pointless pedantic red tape.
Of which we have no shortage as it is.

PBC_1966

I dunno, I like the EU registrations - especially on some car from another country, its interesting to be able to identify its origin.

Visiting cars are supposed to display a country oval with the appropriate code (an exception was made to allow vehicles in EU countries to dispense with that where the new-style plates with identifier are used).

Judging by the number of French, German, and Dutch cars I see around this area with no F, D, or NL sticker though, it's not widely enforced. And the format of their numbers are pretty well known and easy to spot. The ones from farther afield are a mystery sometimes though.

BrianD3

Let me get this straight, you're suggesting that testing the car for carcenogenic, ozone-destroying gasses is comparable to insisting that the county of issue be spelt out on the plate in Irish ?

Let me remind you what wrote lest you forget.

Does anyone remember when the NCT was introduced - It was for safety.
Bullshìt like this has nothing to do with safety.

I was making the point that emissions testing has little or nothing to do with road safety either. Hence the argument that you made is invalid.

Sounds like you're the one who needs to think about what you're writing.

Also, my attitude is this: if someone fails the NCT on illegal number plates it'll cost maybe 20 quid to get legal plates made up and then a free retest from the NCTS who will visually inspect the plates for compliance. OTOH if someone fails the NCT on emissions because their catalytic converter is f*cked they're looking at 500+ quid for a new CAT plus 48 quid for a retest (as the NCTS will need to utilise their equipment for the retest)

I have a lot of sympathy for the person who finds themselves in the latter situation. Whereas I have zero sympathy for the person who finds themselves in the former situation.

Number plates are easy and cheap to get right. It's the law and it should be adhered to.

Finally, there are conspiracy theories going around that the NCTS are deliberately setting out to fail people on numberplates to fill quotas and make more money etc. Well, seeing as number plates do not require a retest using equipment, how is this so? By failing cars on plates and having them return for a free retest, the NCTS are costing themselves money (as someone has to inspect the plates yet the car owner isn't charged for the labour)

BrianD3

Gurgle

Seatbelt - Personal safety
Brakes - Group safety
Emissions - Environmental safety (I know, its a stretch)
County name in Irish on number plate -

Originally posted by BrianD3:
Number plates are easy and cheap to get right. It's the law and it should be adhered to.

Yes but its a stupid law.
I'm not supporting any conspiracy theory or anything, I just think that we would be better off with fewer stupid laws. We have enough of them.

Its not that long ago you would see people driving around leaving a trail of thick black stinking oily smoke. The emissions test does have a point. I have every sympathy for someone who's CAT is broke but at least the CAT does serve a purpose in the first place.

BrianD3

Yes but its a stupid law

I would tend to agree. Personally, I don't see the point of having the Irish name. However, the law is the law and there's a certain standard that plates have to comply with. Number plates are either legal or they're not. It's up to the Gardai and the NCTS to enforce the law on plates. If your plates are legal then grand. if they're not legal, it's a very small deal to rectify the situation. And at this stage, everyone should know that you need the Irish name on your plates - there's been enough publicity about it.

BTW I'm sure if the law was changed so that it was illegal to have the Irish county name on your number plates, people would still find something to complain about. They'd probably be moaning about Ireland's identity and language being eroded by EU bureacracy....

BrianD3

PBC_1966

As Ireland is officially bi-lingual, why does this new rule require the county name to appear in Gaelic, but not in English as well, like road signs?

Victor

Originally posted by Gurgle
Seatbelt - Personal safety
Brakes - Group safety
Emissions - Environmental safety (I know, its a stretch)
County name in Irish on number plate -

Hang on, why have a number palte at all? It doesn't really improve safety does it?

Would the real reason for having the long form name be to stop people altering the county letter easily? :rolleyes:

Originally posted by PBC_1966
As Ireland is officially bi-lingual, why does this new rule require the county name to appear in Gaelic, but not in English as well, like road signs?

Because Irish is the first language.... and it's the law.

unkel

Originally posted by Victor
Because Irish is the first language....

Aye but in reality this is true for only a couple of thousand people out of a population rapidly approaching 4 million :rolleyes:

Gurgle

Originally posted by Victor:
Hang on, why have a number palte at all? It doesn't really improve safety does it?

You honestly don't understand the reason for number plates ?

.... and it's the law.

Good arguement, clearly and concisely explained.

Again with the 'its a stupid law'.

PBC_1966

Because Irish is the first language.... and it's the law.

I hadn't realized that. I assumed that Irish and English were both official languages with equal status, like English and French in Canada.

How is English defined in Irish legal terms? Is it classed as some sort of secondary language which is an acceptable alternative to Gaelic?

ChipZilla

Originally posted by PBC_1966
I hadn't realized that. I assumed that Irish and English were both official languages with equal status, like English and French in Canada.

How is English defined in Irish legal terms? Is it classed as some sort of secondary language which is an acceptable alternative to Gaelic?

http://www.ireland.com/explore/about/language.htm

First paragraph there says it all really.

The reason why we now speak English is a matter for the politics forum IMHO.