Laguna II, Any experience of?

Wavey

Thinking of going for a '01 Laguna II. Hopefully the 1.8 petrol model.
Anybody driving/got any experience of this car? Good or bad/

tinofapples

I like these myself but know of a girl in work here who has a 01 and is not impressed with it at all. So much so that she said to someone I know that she wouldn't sell it to anyone she knows , she'd prefer to trade it into a dealer .

Don't know the gory details or the girl to talk to so can't say anymore !!

Borzoi

One owned by the company here. Driven it myself the odd time. It's the sports estate model. Not a bad car at all. Plenty of poke from the 1.8, huge room inside. Nothing that will set the world on fire mind!

Watch out buying replacement tires, the ones with the pressure gauge to link to the computer are an absolute fortune - not really surprising

Wavey

Yeah I heard that those tires were pretty steep to replace but I think they only come on the very highest spec model whichever one that is.

I wonder can you just put normal tires on and disable the pressure sensor?

BrianD3

I bought a new Laguna 1.6 last year. Very happy with it. Comfort and equipment are great, which is a big plus if you do high mileage.

Performance is not too bad considering it's a 1.6 in a heavy body and I get 45 mpg on long runs.

I've done 40k miles and have had just two small problems 1) a loose wire under the seats causing the airbag warning light to come on 2) an erratic fuel gauge. Both fixed under warranty.

Re: the tyre pressure sensor - the Laguna takes normal tyres, the pressure sensor is in the valve/wheel not in the tyre itself. Although as someone mentioned the top Laguna models (eg V6, not sold in ireland) have a more complex pressure monitoring system which displays the actual pressure in psi rather than just telling you that your tyre pressure is OK. Perhaps these models need special tyres. I don't know.

Mind you the tyres are expensive enough as it is due to large size and speed rating. And the 17 inch alloys fitted to some Lagunas are very prone to damage from potholes - they look nice though.

The Laguna is no sports car, still for a FWD family car it handles well with not much understeer and plenty of grip. The steering on these cars has been criticised for being vague and having a strange feel which is a valid criticism I suppose. Still I think it's just a matter of getting used to the steering feel - I got used to it after about a half an hours driving and when I drive any other car now I find the steering feels strange.

BrianD3

Wavey

Brian, Perhaps you can explain the different models & spec included. Im a bit confused.
Which model comes with the 17" alloys and half leather interior?

The only models ive seen in ireland were, Sport, SuperSport and Dynamique, which are all totally different to the model names on the Renault website.

Kersh

I worked in a car hire place that had loads of them. Beware of the keycard system, it is sooo easy to hotwire. Obviously Im not going to say how, but other than that I thought they were ok. And we didnt have any problems with them. Everyone picked them as company cars over alfa 156, avensis, primera etc, until the mazda 6 landed.

BrianD3

Brian, Perhaps you can explain the different models & spec included. Im a bit confused.

There's a base model, Sport, Sport+ and Supersport. There's also a Mirage which is the same spec as Sport+ except with full leather interior. But I don't think the Mirage spec was available in 01. Even the base model is well equipped with CD player, air con, remote c/l, elec mirrors, front fogs, front elec windows, six airbags. The higher models add better seats, alloys, rear spoiler, climate control and other bits. The Supersport has the half leather seats that you referred to. It also had 17" alloys for the first year or so of production, then Renault switched to 16" as too many people were breaking the bigger wheels in potholes. 16" wheels have 205/55 section tyres, 17" have 225/45

The British specs and model names are different alright. Dynamique is a British model. If you go to www.renault.ie you'll find detailed specs for the Irish models.

HTH,
BrianD3

BrianD3

Beware of the keycard system, it is sooo easy to hotwire.

Huh? It's extremely difficult if not impossible to "hotwire" a modern car with a sophisticated electronic immobiliser. I'd love to see your average car thief try to pull apart a Laguna dashboard and start it by crossing a few wires. The thing is a maze of electronic systems, more so than most modern cars, even the throttle is "fly by wire".

BrianD3

Wavey

Brian thanks for the info.
Do all the models dome with an immobiliser?

Borzoi

Originally posted by Wavey
Yeah I heard that those tires were pretty steep to replace but I think they only come on the very highest spec model whichever one that is.

I wonder can you just put normal tires on and disable the pressure sensor?

Yep they're the 17" bad boys on the super sport. Other tyres can of ourse be used and just ignore the sensor display.

My friend hasn't had problems with the size of the alloys, though he has lost tires to potholes - but then so have I

BrianD3

Borzoi does your friends car display the tyre pressures (in bar or psi, can't remember which) or does it just have a little display which tells you that each tyre is OK. If it's the latter then it definitely doesn't need any special tyres, the pressure sensors will work fine with all tyres. I've just gotten a set of "Champiro" cheapo tyres on my car, cost me 85 quid each which isn't bad IMO for a 205/55 R16 91V tyre. The tyres for the 17" wheels are a little more expensive. If you go for brand name tyres such as Michelin etc. you could pay 150 quid+ per tyre for 16" and more again for 17"

BrianD3

Lockster

I have a 01 1.8 Supersport as a company car and have had quite a few problems with it. It has the 17' wheels and these are very prone to damage with only the slightest bump on a pot hole. They are also very hard on tyres, which are then expensive to replace, around €200 a go. I have also had problems with the throttle body failing and also the instrument panel failed and had to be replaced. I have done 65K and I am changing it for a Mazda 6 in June.

Due to these problems I would not recommend it to anyone (especially if it has the 17' wheels). However it could just be that I was unlucky, but I have heard of others with wheel / tyre and electrical problems.

That apart it is a very comfortable and well equiped car

Borzoi

Originally posted by BrianD3
Borzoi does your friends car display the tyre pressures (in bar or psi, can't remember which) or does it just have a little display which tells you that each tyre is OK. If it's the latter then it definitely doesn't need any special tyres, the pressure sensors will work fine with all tyres.
BrianD3

Yep, it's just the OK or not ok type (the cheap version). AFAIR he did get the sensors moved over to the new tyres, but the main dealer had originally said that wasn't possible. Nevertheless it's a fairly minor point on what was otherwise a reliable car.

Obviously others have had different experiences!

BrianD3

AFAIR he did get the sensors moved over to the new tyres, but the main dealer had originally said that wasn't possible

Well the sensors are in the valve (which is part of the wheel - nothing to do with the tyre) so the dealer was talking through his arse.

However one quirk about the pressure monitoing system is AFAIK you can't swap your wheels around cause if you do the sensors will be in the wrong place which will confuse the computer. If you wish to swap tyres around you must have the tyres removed from the wheels and then swapped - so the wheels themselves remain in the same location. With most other cars, when you want to swap tyres, you just take off the wheels and swap the wheels and tyres at the same time which is much handier.

One other potential probelm with the Laguna that I forgot to mention is brake wear. I'm an easy driver and usually get good mileage out of discs/pads (around 60k from pads and 120k from front discs on my last car) But with the Laguna I think thediscs both front and back are wearing quite quickly and I'd say they'll need replacement well before 100k. Maybe it's because it's a heavy car so the brakes do a lot of work.

BrianD3

Dman_15

01 1.6 supersport
same problem as lockster
If the tyres are the low profile ones (with 17" alloys) replacement tyres will cost a small fortune. Renault stopped fitting these on the irish spec ones last year and opted for 16" instead, they are easily damaged on our crap roads. (this also happened our one, wrecked an alloy on a pothole) the pressure sensors went haywire in the tyres.
the rear suspension needed fully replaced after just 30k miles. under warranty thank god.

the 1.6 litre is too small for a car of this weight but the one youre looking at is a 1.8 so that should be fine.

apart from that its a great motor

<EDIT>water leaked in the passenger side front, dripped onto your feet. dealer fixed it but never said what was wrong

Wavey

Thanks for all the replies lads.

Shame about the finicky 17" rims cos they look pretty good.

Is it just the fact that they use low profile tires that make them easily damaged or are they made of a soft alloy?

Realistically I'm not going to have alot of choice here cos there are very few 1.8 models my price range on the market. Im just going to pick the best of whats for sale when I've got the money together.

Brian, I dont think 100k is too bad for discs. I had to replace mine at 80k. Although Im driving a mondeo. (Never again)

Thanks again lads

Oh yeah. One more question.
How does the pressure signal get from the tyre to the display? Is there contacts on the hub/rim?
If so, do they have to be replaced with identical Renault rims if need be?

Wavey

@Lockster,

Was your instrument panel replaced under warranty or were you/your company charged.
If so how much?

Nuttzz

A bloke in the office here has one, its the 1.9 diesel though, he says that it is very economical and haven been driven in it is very comfortable.

The problems he's had was the turbo blowing and causing major oil burn, if was replaced under warranty, they come with a 2 year warranty now

Lockster

As the car is 01, Renault were only giving 1 year warrenty at the time (I think that it is 2 now), and the annoying thing was that the problems with the throttle body and instrument panel happened after this. As an act of good faith they did pay for part of the invoices for both faults, but not the whole lot. I think that the total price for the instrument panel was around €300 including labour. As I mentioned earlier it is a company car, so my company has payed for all the bills, but if I was a private buyer then I would not be happy. Also my boss told me that when I was due to change the car he didn't want me to get another Laguna.

With regards to the tyre pressure monitors, I think that you have to have Renault rims for this to work. There is no problem changing from 17" down to 16" as long as they are Renault products, as I have now been told that this is what a lot of people have done due to the problems with the 17". In terms of tyres they do not have to be anything special, just as long as the person fitting them is a little bit careful around the valves.

Dman_15

one other thing

not tryong to put you off but the aerial is in the rear windscreen and when you turn on the heated rear window the radio picks up terrible interference. the guys at the garage ar at a loss as to whats causing it and have replaced the aerial to no avail.

Nuttzz

From the topgear website

Having jumped out of a 1.8-litre petrol-fired Laguna I wondered why anybody would willingly buy one. My heart went out to reps all over the country, hammering up and down the motorways in a car which has the acceleration of a crippled snail.

Then I jumped into a 1.9 dCi and suddenly it all made sense. The Laguna itself is good, but if the engine makes it a pain to live with there doesn't seem to be much point. But with a turbodiesel under the bonnet the Laguna really is worth considering.

Being a confirmed fan of the VW 1.9-litre turbodiesel engine, it would be hard for me to not like the Renault attempt which follows the same concept. With pretty much the same capacity, similar power and torque figures and intergalactic gearing it's a very similar drive.

The gearing is so tall that you hardly ever need to go above fifth gear - sixth gear is really for motorway use only. To make any progress you need to have 2000 revs on the clock and as that equates to 60mph in top gear you'll be lucky to get that far on today's gatso-infested roads.

With its excellent sat-nav, wonderfully frugal fuel consumption and acres of space all round (although rear seat leg room isn't very generous) the Laguna may seem like the perfect companion, but there are flies in the ointment.

The most worrying is the build quality, which defintely isn't up to VW standards. Not only did the sunroof steadfastly refuse to do anything other than stay shut, but the tyre pressure monitors were doing odd things, just like on the other Laguna I drove.

But the car's looks are a definite plus point, along with its equipment levels. Safety is another factor in the car's favour as the Laguna is the only car to have achieved a five-star rating in the Euro NCAP testing and a trio of three-point belts in the rear mean everybody gets to travel in comfort - as long as their legs aren't too long.

As a driver's car the Laguna also scores highly, although that statement is aimed more at the rep than the true enthusiast. That's because although the car is relaxing to drive and the ride is pretty good even with 17-inch low-profile tyres fitted, the brakes don't like to be used too hard and the handling isn't as sharp as other cars in the class.

The Laguna II is a big move forward over its predecessor. If Renault can make sure that everything keeps working as it should they're going to be onto a winner

http://www.topgear.com/content/features/stories/survey_2003/04/

check out what came 134 out of 137.....

and also other user opinions

http://www.topgear.com/content/my_topgear/duffers/D6/B7/34/

unkel

Originally posted by Nuttzz
From the topgear website



http://www.topgear.com/content/features/stories/survey_2003/04/

check out what came 134 out of 137.....

That's just shocking :eek:

Also in J.D. Power 2004 customer satisfaction survey 110 out of 120. This is NOT about how reliable the car is but how happy customers are with the car. There seems to be consensus that the car is safe, comfortable, roomy, luxurious and economical. So why do owners hate it so much?

BrianD3

Also in J.D. Power 2004 customer satisfaction survey 110 out of 120. This is NOT about how reliable the car is but how happy customers are with the car. There seems to be consensus that the car is safe, comfortable, roomy, luxurious and economical. So why do owners hate it so much?

Because there's a lot of bias in those customer satisfaction surveys due to people having different perceptions and expectations of what is good and bad. An undemanding 65 year old Hyundai Accent owner might give their car 10/10 for handling when in fact the thing handles like a boat. The other extreme is the 30 year old BMW driver who gives their car 7/10 for handling because it doesn't handle as well as, say, a Lotus Elise. So which car handles better - the BMW of course, but you'd never know it if you believed those surveys.

Also, some people are pretty clueless when it comes to praising/criticising their cars. Eg the quote that was posted above about the 1.8 petrol Laguna being dog slow compared to the turbo diesel. People don't seem to understand that petrol and diesel engines have different performance/torque/power characteristics may have different servicing requirements and may differ in price. Eg it's pretty clear that a TD Laguna will beat a 1.8 petrol from 50-70 mph in 5th gear but what about from 80-100 mph? Or what about if you go through the gears instead of just plonking it in 5th at 2000 rpm?

BrianD3

Wavey

There seem to be alot of unhappy chappys in the individual review section. Reports of alot of problems.
Have to say that site has tainted my view of the laguna.
Starting to look at a few Accords now.
Not quite as snazzy looking but seem to be the most reliable of the two.

unkel

Originally posted by BrianD3
there's a lot of bias in those customer satisfaction surveys due to people having different perceptions and expectations

Good point. What the survey is about is not how good / reliable the car IS (objective) but how people report it to be. This is subjective and always compared to what people's expectations were when they bought the car

This is probably the most important reason why the Skoda Octavia has won the family car segment in this award for the third year in a row. People buy it for the price of a car in a segment below it and find it is grand. They get a VW Bora in disguise for €4k less. Then the boot turns out to be bigger than a 7-series or an S-class. Expectations exceeded and car wins

The expectation thing is no excuse for the Laguna to come last in it's class though. There obviously are issues with it

fenris

I have a 01 1.6 Prestige Supersport (the estate version of the laguna).

17" alloys were buckled within a week (try driving from sandyford to Bray via stepaside without hitting potholes!)

It eats tyres at approx €220 each.

The cutting out at low speeds was fixed by a recall and was caused by an idle speed problem.

Have had my dashdoard replaced - it just died one morning

Renault in Sandyford have provided fantastic service, everything was sorted quickly and without quibble, (unlike victor motors with my last car)

It is not so much underpowered as lacking in any sensation of speed, bad thing in these days of revenue generating points !

Very comfortable drive, especially for long trips, and the gearing is just right for nudging along in traffic.

Very spacious interior - I am 6'2", and have plenty of leg and headroom even with the sunroof, 3 large dogs fit quite nicely in the boot (main buying criteria), estate version is about 9cm longer than the hatchback but has nore features as standard.

Would I buy another one - probably not, 17 inch alloys and expensive tyres being the main reason, balanced against the fantastic service fron Stillorgan renault.

It is a very functional car, does the job with no adrenaline involved whatsoever, not a fun car - just a car !

Fun is the job of my GSXR1100 :cool:

BrianD3

Regarding the Laguna and expensive tyres, I have to say that this is a problem with most modern cars. Tyres on family cars have gotten progressively bigger, wider, faster (speed rating) and therefore more expensive over the years. Eg the current Renault Megane with alloy wheels has 205/55 R16 tyres. Ten years ago, the Renault 19 which was the equivalent of the Megane had 165/70 R13 tyres on dinky 13" alloys. Likewise 10 years ago a 1.8 Laguna had similar size wheels/tyres to what the Clio has nowadays. And 10-15 years ago big Mercs and BMWs had similar tyres to what today's Mondeos and Lagunas have. So it should be no surprise that people are paying a lot for tyres on normal family cars nowadays.

BrianD3

unkel

Originally posted by BrianD3
Regarding the Laguna and expensive tyres, I have to say that this is a problem with most modern cars. Tyres on family cars have gotten progressively bigger, wider, faster (speed rating) and therefore more expensive over the years.

Yes this has happened very quickly over the last decade, hasn't it? Imho larger, lower profile (alloy) wheels make almost any car look better, but there is a price to pay as well

On motorways, these tyres are grand but on our pot-holed roads they are inclined to burst. This happened to me a few months ago and the recommended retail price of one of my Continental ContiSportContact 245/45 ZR 18 is €330 :eek:

BTW, realise that you are a very happy Laguna owner, Brian. Most owners probably are happy, but the percentage of unhappy Laguna owners seems to be higher than that for other cars in its class

BrianD3

Yes this has happened very quickly over the last decade, hasn't it?

Just out of interest I looked up some tyre specs for older cars
1984 Ferrari Testarossa flat 12 225/50 R16 front, 250/50 R16 rear
2001 Renault Laguna 1.6 Supersport - 225/45 R17 front and rear

So the front wheels on a Laguna are bigger and have lower profile tyres than those on a Ferrari Testarossa! No sane person would expect to drive a Testarossa into an Irish pothole and come out unscathed - yet a family car like the Laguna is expected to cope with everything that's thrown at it. I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with big wheels on family cars, as you say they can look really well, it's just that I think some owners don't realise there can be a price to pay (in terms of cost of replacement tyres and vulnerability of wheels/tyres to pothole damage) for the nice appearance.

(post edited as I mistakenly referred to the Testarossa as a V12 when it's actually a flat 12)

BrianD3