Liverpool Thai Deal Underway...

mike65

Although nothing has been said offcially the fact Rick Parry is in the Thai captial today says to me the deal by the PM to buy a third of the club is all but done. That'll
mean a cash injection of about 60 mill. More to follow no doubt.

http://www.soccer365.com/EUROPEAN_NEWS/Premiership/page_99_72284.shtml

Mike.

watman

Just caught something about it on the radio . Thanks for the link

Dont be at yourself

Apparently he wants another Melwood style academy set up in Thailand too.

I wonder if he'll be providing funds for strengthening the squad. With three or four quality players, I think we could really challenge for the league.

Space Coyote

Tis good news alright. Things are looking bright for the future. All thats left to do now is to say bye bye to half the squad and that bloke masquerading as a football manager.

Caesar_Bojangle

I'd hate to see a Chelsea scenario happen at Liverpool. I'd prefer to see my club lay the foundations for winning trophies over a few seasons than try to buy it in the space of one.

Big Ears

Why wont a multi Billionaire try to take over Newcastle ?

Freddie Sheppard has been tight with the Cheque book of late

The Rooster

If the Thai chap is giving £65m for a 30% stake, its not Liverpool FC who will have £65m in its coffers to spend as it wishes, it will be the shareholders who currently hold the 30% being sold who will get the money.

Unless its a new issue of shares, which would be very unusual and quite complicated as you would need the agreement of every shareholder at the club to agree.

jesus_thats_gre

This would explain where they are getting that 30 million transfer kitty.

kida

Hello - isn't he buying shares in the club and not giving money for Transfers. The money will be just moving between different people - Liverpool will be no richer as a result. Where will they find 60M from that they didn't have last week.

p.pete

Will this mean that they have to trek to Thailand every Summer for friendlies? Don't see that as being very positive...

Dont be at yourself

According to reports, there'll be £30 million available for transfers when this deal goes through.

p.pete

Originally posted by NekkidBibleMan
According to reports, there'll be £30 million available for transfers when this deal goes through.

Is that a different 30mil to the 30mil previously mentioned?

jesus_thats_gre

I am guessing its the same 30 mil

Kone

Originally posted by jesus_thats_gre
I am guessing its the same 30 mil

but it might be different!

Dont be at yourself

Even I, ardent Houllier supporter, would think twice about giving him €60 million!

redspider

This is an unusual financial development for Liverpool. My understanding is that
the Thai PM (very wealthy before he went into politics and now has usd 1.4b -
sounds like a Berlusconi!) is aiming to buy a share of the club (its a privately
held company) in the range of 9% to 30%. Its unclear what exact amount
or price he will pay as yet as that is being negotiated. Reuters reports that
30% is worth over usd 100m valuing Liverpool FC at approx. ukp 186.

As a private company, the shareholders do from time to time put
investment money into the company. The shareholders also receive the
profits when they do occur, as they did in 2002 and 2003. It looks
as part of the negotiations that the new shareholder (the Thai PM)
is being asked to invest money. As the current shareholders will
be selling 30% (unclear if that is evenly balanced across all shareholders
or biased towards some individuals) they will probably be investing
some of that in a matching manner with what the Thai PM will be
putting in after he buys his share, if you know what I mean. Its
unlikely to be an Abramovich level of a deal which was 250m for the
lot (115m was debt) and a spending of 110m on top of that.

eg: sell 30% for ukp 60m
shareholders put together more funds (eg: 10m per 30%) and
invest in a new ground
invest in new players (and sell players)
pay players to stay


Overall, money is a big influence on the sport and money at any time is
of use. Liverpool need to expand their ground capacity and hopefully
get a 60,000 seater stadium that they can fill to bring in more revenue.
Liverpool were reportedly a profitable club, but its unclear if there
lack of CL football this year and its revenues would have put them
in the red (ie: an annual loss position, or worse a retained loss
position). Getting the 4th spot which now looks likely is an
absolute and I would say that the Thai's deal wont be inked
until that is known.


In comparison to Liverpool's value at approx ukp 186m, by the way,
Man U's value today is stg 621m (which was down -5% in one day).


We used to play on grass .....

galwaydude

hopefully the deal will go through as we do need a bit of investment to bring us closer to the big three.
60 million would buy us cisse, mexes and a decent midfielder with plenty of change left over,hopefully houllier wont blow it like he did on diouf and that other hasbeen.
Looks like owen will sign a new contract, interesting statistic i read today was that liverpool are top of most shots so far in the league and shots on target, at least we are top somewhere as it will be a while before we even think of beating the likes of arsenal for the league.

The Rooster

According to the Guardian:

Its believed to be £56.5m, a NEW issue of shares, so all the money goes to the club, none to the existing shareholders. But presumably a good proportion will go on the new stadium, so it won't all be available for transfers.

As part of the deal the Thai PM will personally obtain the commercial rights to Liverpool merchandise in Thailand and possibly in all Asia.

I think it may be a mistake by Liverpool given the very shady past of the Thai PM. Of course Roman's past is equally shady and that hasnt stopped Chelsea enjoying it. But in Liverpool's case, Steve Morgan (a Liverpool supporter through and through) also offered £50m, but it was turned down by Moores because of personal differences he has with Morgan.

I think the stat about shots on goal by Liverpool may a show a weakness, in that most of the time a Liverpool player will shoot instead of passing to a player in a better position, who would have a much better chance of scoring, rather than just hitting the target.

Seen this said about Cisse:
Faster than Henry
Bigger than Heskey
Moodier than Anelka

redspider

Just to follow up on this “Thai Deal”. It looks as if 30% of the company/club will be in the ownership of Thai’s with this deal. There is however conflicting reports over who is actually going to be paying for it.

One report said it would be public money – I think this would be a bad move for Liverpool. Imagine, 30% of the club being owned by a government of another country! I’m not sure if he FA or the English government would allow that. I don’t think this will happen and that the reporters are mis-reading the cues.

Another report said that the Thai PM is putting together a few business associates together. This is more plausible and is in the mode of a Berlusconi.

The amount of money is now over 60m. In terms of shareholders, one report has it that Moore will be disposing a 30% chunk from his 51% majority ownership.

A press conference is expected to be held before the end of the week. No doubt after the Newcastle game as I think the ultimate value of the club is dependent on whether the 4th spot is attained or not. Only after that will we really know more of the details, but as a privately held company, there is no onus on them to completely divulge all their financial information.

If there is a New Issue, then the share pool will be expanded, but this is a financial academic exercise if the only taker of the New Issue is the Thai people, as it allows all shareowners to dilute their level of ownership and effectively own a company/club with more assets – it’s the same thing as selling and then everyone putting up their fair share. Its just a mechanism and doesn’t increase the total amount of money available at the club/company.

By the way, Liverpool’s revenue up until June 2003 was eur 149.4m, which was made up of eur 41.2m revenue from matchdays, 65.7m from broadcast revenue from the FA Premiership and Uefa (CL + Cup) and 42.5m from commercial deals (eg: sponsorship, merchandise, etc).

Overall, I have mixed feelings with this type of deal. I would prefer for Liverpool to have played their way to success, rather than getting in a large cash injection. But, as a business, money investments can accelerate progress, but it remains to be seen what amount of monies will be available and on what they will be spent on. Liverpool have money in the bank before this deal I suspect (I don’t think there is a Leeds situation bubbling under here, although the finances would have taken a hit this year) and that 30m that was earmarked for transfer investments was already available. I would imagine that the Thai owners will be expected to invest some more money on top of the share sale (which is just some money going from one person to another).

I wasnt too happy to see Chelski getting their wads of dodgy money (Abramovich is one of the Oligarch’s and has links to the Russian Mafia) as that distorts the playing field. Is money in soccer the equivalent to drugs in Athletics? Those that have more of it ultimately will win. One proposal is to limit spending for all Uefa clubs to say eur 50m a year and then it will be a more level playing field.

The Rooster

a new issue .... doesn’t increase the total amount of money available at the club/company.

A new issue DOES increase the money available at the club.

Lets say Liverpool is currently worth £140m in terms of net assets/cash. £60m from the Thai PM (its coming out of personal funds not Govt funds - whether its been taken from Govt funds is another question:D ) gives him new shares which give him 30% of the club. The clubs net assets/cash are now £200m - and that £60m can be spent in whatever way the club decides. No individual has recevied anything out of it.

Before the deal Moores held 50%, worth say £140m x 50% = 70m.

After the deal his shareholding will have been diluted. The existing shareholders holdings will have been reduced from 100% to 70%. So Moores shareholding will be 50% x 70% = 35%.

The value of Moores shareholding will be £200m x 35% = 70m., i.e. no change.
So Moores or any other shareholder will receive nothing and lose nothing from the deal. They'll simply own a smaller slice of a bigger cake, with the same net effect. All assuming that its a new issue of shares and not a transfer of existing shares.

EDIT: I see the BBC are saying that it is a transfer of existing shares and the money is coming from Thai public funds. Completely the opposite of what the Guardian said. If the BBC are right, then I think the cons far outweigh the pros of this deal.

BaZmO*

Originally posted by The Rooster
As part of the deal the Thai PM will personally obtain the commercial rights to Liverpool merchandise in Thailand and possibly in all Asia.

If that is true, is it a wise decision on Liverpool's part? The Premiership is huge in Thailand. I was over there a couple of years ago and was amazed at how popular it is. There is hardly a bar where you can't see Premiership matches.

By agreeing to this deal Liverpool might be losing out on a lot of potential revenue!


B.

redspider

Originally posted by The Rooster
A new issue DOES increase the money available at the club.

A new issue doesn’t increase the money in the pot any more than a share sale and then an investment put in by all shareholders. It’s the same thing. Eg:

Current Value 140m
Sell 30% (28m) – “New” Value 140m
If all the shareholders put in their equivalent share of 60m extra = New value 200m

The only difference is whether the current shareholders get equally diluted or unequally diluted.
Eg: If Moores sold 30% for 42m, his retained holding 21% of the 140m would be 29.4m, and to keep his share at 21% of an enlarged 200m value company he would have to invest 12.6m.

Its swings and roundabouts. Just remember a New Issue doesn’t bring in any more money than other mechanisms would, its just a simple way to keep the dilutions equal.

However, having said all that, why would the current shareholders sell a piece of Liverpool for no compensation whatsoever? I find that hard to believe. Its not as if Liverpool are desperate for cash. I’m sure the current shareholders will get something out of it even if it is just 1m or 2.

We will learn more as the week unfolds .....

alfie

Just saw this

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/headlinenews?id=300131&cc=5739

It seems Morgan is going head to head with the Thai PM:D

yom 1

i'd prefer to see morgan involved as he is a lifelong fan
and would have better interest in the club than the Thai PM

alfie

I think Moores doesnt like Morgan personally so it'll be interestin to see if he puts the club before his personal opinions about Morgan

egan007

http://www.rte.ie/sport/2004/0511/liverpool1.html

morgan story is on RTE now -
Personally would prefer morgan
Could they not create new shares and both invest in the club?

Moores is reminding me of risdale at leeds - nobody wants to go down that road. I think he is putting personal gain before club gain.
This arguement about remaining as chairman seems very petty - if he cares about te club so much then his position in it should not prevent others from investing much needed cash....


"I hearby start the Bring Morientes to Anfield campaign"

The Rooster

Redspider

If its a share transfer, Moores get 60m from Thai PM for a 30% shareholding in the club. Moores gets 60m and the club gets nothing.

But if its a new issue then the club get 60m and Moores gets nothing. The value of Moores holding remains at £70m.

Simple.

redspider

Rooster, we are saying the same thing.

ie: New Issue brings in more cash

Share sale (eg: 30%) and equal investment by all shareholders also
brings in more cash. These are just mechanisms.

The current shareholders can put in 60m but as they are not (cannot?)
it is likely that the Moores 51% shareholding doesn't have the cash.
Morgan is willing to put in his share and more. He only has 5% but
has the backing of another 15% or more, supposedly, and it only
takes 25% to block a deal such as te Thai one.

Overall, its not good to have this lack of uniformity and common cause
among the largest shareholders. Morgan and Moores seemingly dont
agree and the 50m offer (for what percent I'm not sure) by Morgan earlier in
the year was turned down. Morgan has a lot of support on merseyside.
Radio Mersey is a good source: 1485 am. His counter offer is also to
get the fans involved with a 12m. All very well if the fans votes are in
unison, but if they are all individual votes it can make running the
club/company more difficult. If its set up like an ESOP, it could be easier.

I welcome getting the fans involved. I would also welcome getting
the players involved. Some of them have quite a bit of money, and
like other industries, should they not get partially paid perhaps in shares?
Michael Owen for example is not poor, and although his agent will
be pushing to get the maximum deal for him, it sort of shoots you
in the foot if you get too much.

Moores plan is to get marketing benefits from Thailand/Asia. Morgan cant
match that.

This is a real boardroom struggle which is not good for the club unless it
gets sorted one way or the other ......

BaZmO*

Originally posted by redspider
I welcome getting the fans involved. I would also welcome getting
the players involved. Some of them have quite a bit of money, and
like other industries, should they not get partially paid perhaps in shares?.

I have to say, that is a great idea. If that type of thing did ever come about it would instill a sense of loyalty into otherwise mercinary(sp) players.
B.

The Rooster

Moores plan is to get marketing benefits from Thailand/Asia. Morgan cant match that

The way I read it was that under Moores/Thai PM plan, all the rights to marketing in Thailand/Asia would go directly to the Thai PM.

Morgan specifically referred to this yesterday. He said under his plan all the rights and associated income from Thai/Asia would be retained in LFC.

kida

I have to laugh - if this was Man United there would be public outcry about selling out the club and all that other sh!te that is reported about United. The human rights abuses of Thailand would be a bigger deal.

Seems the media have 1 rule for United and another for everyone else.

Isn't this the same guy who wanted to buy Fulham earlier this year and who said he followed United 2 years ago .

Link

p.pete

Originally posted by kida
I have to laugh - if this was Man United there would be public outcry about selling out the club and all that other sh!te that is reported about United. The human rights abuses of Thailand would be a bigger deal.

Seems the media have 1 rule for United and another for everyone else.

You have to remember that Liverpool (and just about everyone else) are less hard done by than Manchester United. It's a cruel world unfortunately.

redspider

The finer details of the Thai deal have yet to be revealed. I would imagine that marketing rights would mean that the Thai company would sell Liverpool merchandise on behalf of Liverpool and there would be a win-win scenario.
ie: more overall sales, more money to Liverpool but a percentage going to
a Thai company. It just doesn't make sense to give rights away.

I personally dont favour the Thai deal. As has been pointed out, this is the
same guy that was looking to get into Fulham a while back. Like an Abramovich,
its a predatory deal rather than one with heart. Also, like Abramovich, this
guy and no doubt his colleagues, are far from being Mother Teresa's.

Morgan's offer is from the heart, and I think from the fans point of view is the favoured option. Of course, the big question is where do the Moores sit on this
as Morgan is a rival, and of course Rick Parry and other shareholders will
have opinions too.

I hope it works out for the best ......

BaZmO*

Apparently Morgan won't be backing Houllier! Is that cheers I hear from some Liverpool supporters?

LINK


B.

Space Coyote

Most definitely. I will be cheering Houllier all the way back to France where he'll be taking up his new role of wrapping Le Big Mac.

redspider

I'll update this thread ....

The Thai deal looks to be falling apart as seemingly there is little support for holding a lottery among the Thai people and it may be in fact unconstitutional for the government to be a shareholder in a company that makes profits. Not that Liverpool make much profits but clearly it is a company that can do so.

I'm glad that the Thai deal wont go through if that is the case, but where now for Liverpool in terms of funds and what impact does this have on the management position?

BaZmO*

They'll make a few bob when they sell Gerrard!!

eyerer

they have around 20mil to spend and another 10 if they make the champions league group stage, so i've read

i dont want the deal to go through, i've seen him with a manc shirt and he then says he'll buy into everton if this one falls through
they were supposed to be silent partners but then they wanted 2 seats on the board
and giving them the rights to far east marketing doesn't seem like a good idea

eyerer

Originally posted by BaZmO*
They make a few bob when they sell Gerrard!!

maybe they knew gerrard was leaving and gerrard signed an extension to make sure liverpool would get money for his transfer
dont think the reported 20mil is enough though
still, its more than michael owen has done, im tired of hearing his threats of leaving, i'd prefer if he was sold for 20mil, doubt anyone would pay it though

p.pete

Originally posted by eyerer
i dont want the deal to go through, i've seen him with a manc shirt and he then says he'll buy into everton if this one falls through

It'd be good to see the money invested into Everton - would be nice to see the two clubs on a slightly more equal footing and would possibly be helpful in moving towards getting a shared stadium in Stanly Park.

eyerer

Originally posted by p.pete
It'd be good to see the money invested into Everton - would be nice to see the two clubs on a slightly more equal footing and would possibly be helpful in moving towards getting a shared stadium in Stanly Park.

i don't want everton to do well and i don't want a ground sharing
but the reason the deal might fall through is because he was trying to use public funds which he probably won't be able to
so no money for anyone, unless he decides to pay himself, which i wouldn't bet on