*WHY* "metricicate" speed limis?

TommyK

Hello Everybody,

I was listening to yet another piece in the radio today about the forthcoming “metricification” of speed limit signs around the country later this year.

I was wondering if anyone knows the reason why this is being done? I’ve heard many people say it’s because the E.U. is forcing the Irish government to do it but nobody seems to know *why*!

Is there an actual benefit for the Irish road-using population to doing this?

Or is it like other road signs where all distances have been changed to kilometres even though if you ask anyone how far it is to somewhere, 99.9% will answer in miles!?

I see only problems with forcing people to learn a whole new set of speed values and believe it’s all a complete waste of money. As always, it’s very easy for others to find reasons to take and spend *my* (tax) money!

So, can anyone educate an ignorant hick like me as to why a perfectly good system of measuring speeds (miles-per-hour) *has* to be changed? (Other than being forced to do so, that is).

Tommy.

seamus

Originally posted by TommyK
I see only problems with forcing people to learn a whole new set of speed values and believe it’s all a complete waste of money. As always, it’s very easy for others to find reasons to take and spend *my* (tax) money!

You get used to it very quickly just like those euro yokes. My bike has a readout in Km/h and it took maybe 3 weeks to get used to it.

So, can anyone educate an ignorant hick like me as to why a perfectly good system of measuring speeds (miles-per-hour) *has* to be changed? (Other than being forced to do so, that is).

Because it's fun hearing people bitch and moan abotu changes which don't really affect their lives in any significant way, and then watch them try to defend their position 6 months after the change.

Seriously? It's because mph is out of date. You have to learn to metricise....man!

Merrion

I can think of better things to spend the money on though - like the roads for example.

Neil3030

Seamus Brennan was on Morning Ireland this morning. Seemingly there are 40,000 road signs around the country that will need changing. Now an estimation there on the basis of €50 per sign, an hour per sign labour at €15 a throw plus expenses of say €10 per sign (Diesel, transport etc.) will bring the bill to €3 million.* Now one bonus that I can see is that they are also looking into the standardisation of those idiotic speed limits set by local councils on dual carriageways which will be incorporated into the new system of speed limit signs.


*That's just an uneducated guess at the costs, feel free to correct me.

Merrion

You'd think they could just paste the new limit on top of the old sign with super glue...
*..rushes of to patent that idea....*

Neil3030

No doubt it's been looked into. Or perhaps respraying a coat of white paint over the signs and subsequesntly the figures on top of that?

TommyK

Originally posted by seamus
It's because mph is out of date.

Yes, but *why*!? What exactly has changed that makes mph out of date? The only thing I can see is that lots of people just *say* it is! Not exactly a great reason for spending €3m or whatever it will cost!

And why can't speed limits be standardised in mph anyway? Why would *that* require such a fundamental change?

If it ain't broken, why "fix" it!?

Tommy.

sceptre

For a long time I've seen it as nutty that we measure distance in km and speed in mph. As long as we don't go back to fourteen pecks in a wibble or whatever it was (I was born in 1975 so I grew up with metricity) I wouldn't mind all the distance signs changed back to miles but I'd like to see the same system used for both for simplicity.

That's as good as I can do I'm afraid. Weren't we supposed to standardise everything in metric by 1975 before we got that extended exemption?

DukeDredd

I think if the speedos in cars go to Km per hour it's gonna confuse the crap out of the older generation. I can think of 4 people i know off hand that are going to be driving along and REFUSE to accelerate to 100 on the clock!

Stephen

eh, the vast majority of cars have dual mph/kph on the dash.

Washout

Well to be honest it will be nice to have a proper global standard...most of the world uses metric. australia, india, mainland europe.

I betcha the yanks wont change though.

Krusty_Clown

You can guarantee that as soon as the speed limits change to Kph, the NCT will include a check to ensure that all speedo's read in KPH..

My digital speedo can be changed over at the press of a button..

Genghis

Yeah, Krusty I'd say you are right, bu I'd imagine it will only apply to cars registered after 1 January 2005 - from that date forward all new cars must have km-only speedos.

I favour this measure, actually. Distance in kms and speed in miles is mad stuff altogether. Mph as a metric is 'on its way out'. At some point it will be replaced by kph. Might as well do it now as some time in the future.

And I don't think it will take people a long time to convert. Certainly anyone under 30 should be fairly familiar with both measurements.

DukeDredd

My digital speedo can be changed over at the press of a button.

Off topic for a sec - what car you driving Krusty?

Pataman

Many moons ago when we voted for Maastricht it was part of the package, as was the Euro, the european court of justice, european police force etc.

Therefore if you go to UK apart from the obvious lack of euro, they wont be changing to kmh

Merrion

Are cars with MPH only speedo's going to be allowed thereafter - I don't think mine has KpH marked and I don't really want to fit a non-original speedo after spending all that money getting the car restored :mad:

Pataman

afaik they will be offering stick on transfers, I know that that could lead to a margin of error.

Stephen

You can just learn the equivalent MPH of the usual speed limit steps

ie 60 MPH = 96.5 KPH (probably gonna be rounded to 100)
40 MPH = 64 KPH (probably gonna be rounded to 65)
30 MPH = 48 KPH (probably gonna be rounded to 50)

Victor

Originally posted by TommyK
So, can anyone educate an ignorant hick like me as to why a perfectly good system of measuring speeds (miles-per-hour) *has* to be changed? (Other than being forced to do so, that is).

First off, there is a general move towards metrification, but more importantly, seeing as they will be changing the limits, it makes sense to do both at the same time.

Originally posted by TommyK
I see only problems with forcing people to learn a whole new set of speed values

What you mean people will need to look at the sign on the side of the road and/or road conditions now? None of this constant driving at 35/65mph anymore? :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Genghis
Yeah, Krusty I'd say you are right, bu I'd imagine it will only apply to cars registered after 1 January 2005 - from that date forward all new cars must have km-only speedos.

Actually, I understnad the proposal is that all be speedometers be metric dominant.

ubu

the main reason is harmonisation with the rest of Europe, as previously stated its also has to do with EU policy and Maastricht also it comes at a convienient time as Mr.Brennan and his Dept are conducting a review of speed limits on certain roads and this just happens to coincide with the changeover to Km/h although this was due to be carried out on the night of 31 September/1 October this year Mr.Brennan recently admitted that they wouldnt now be done on this date(sumtin to do with getting all the signs produced on time) but promised this will be done by the end of the year.....start holding your breath now!

PBC_1966

I haven't been to Ireland since 1998, but I remember at that time it being a guessing game as to whether the next distance sign would be miles or kilometers. Have all (or the majority) of distance signs now been converted?

It is somewhat illogical to have distances in km and speeds in MPH, but I have to ask why change either?

There have already been calls here in Britain to metricate the roads, and when Ireland has finished the conversion I can see the bureaucrats jumping up and down, and saying "Look, even Ireland has changed to kilometers now, so we should too!"

tba

In my opinion the move to Metric has to be done at some stage. As a child of the eighties I was raised with metric, I Know how high I am in centimetres, what weight I am in Kilograms how and the size of a metre by eye.

I have no idea how long a mile is how may pounds are in a stone. The only thing I know how to convert is 1 pint=568ml.

I do know however that a kilometre is 1000 metres and can calculate speed to distance and time almost straight away if. When all the people like me who cant read imperial or understand why their are 12 inches in a foot are the only ones driving then it would make sense to change but by then you would be used to miles and would have to get used to a new system all over again.

My opinion is just get it out of the way.

Gmodified

40 MPH = 64 KPH (probably gonna be rounded to 65)


It will be actually 60km/h



should be km/h long time ago.

Wrestlemania

Next thing the EU will wants us to drive on the wrong side of the road!

Gmodified

Next thing the EU will wants us to drive on the wrong side of the road!

can you for once just accept some changes and stop protesting about something that will never happen

i bet you were protesting against high rise/m50 ext/kildare bypass etc

let's build high buildings



noo!!!!, this will block sunshine to sheriff street.

netman

Originally posted by Gmodified
noo!!!!, this will block sunshine to sheriff street.

HAHAHH!! brilliant!

Wrestlemania

Originally posted by Gmodified
can you for once just accept some changes and stop protesting about something that will never happen

i bet you were protesting against high rise/m50 ext/kildare bypass etc

let's build high buildings



noo!!!!, this will block sunshine to sheriff street.

Eh no, I welcome bypass's just wanna stay non-metric you big bad man

silent

Originally posted by Gmodified
noo!!!!, this will block sunshine to sheriff street.

there's sunshine in this country?
driving on the correct side of the road? nah, will never happen

Gmodified

people with jap imports will be happy:)


that's me:D too

Victor

Originally posted by Wrestlemania
I ... just wanna stay non-metric

Could I ask why?

unkel

Originally posted by Wrestlemania
Next thing the EU will wants us to drive on the wrong side of the road!

We already do that. Maybe one day we will drive on the right side of the road

Tivoli

nah fook imperial, metric is much easier to understand

off topic ...ish

spanners in metric range from 7 mm to 32 mm in steps of 1 mm so 7,8,9,10,11...
so if a 8 is too small try a 9

spanners in imperial ranges from 1/4AF to 15/16AF in steps of god know what so 1/4af,5/16af,11/32af,wtf/42,ffs/omg..... idiots
so if a 5/16af is too small, try to find the next bigger one

imperial is a mess

people have 10 fingers and hence our numbers work in steps of 10, and so do meters.

Tommy Vercetti

Oh man this whole changing buzz will never work

Look at the smoking ban! There's anarchy on the streets! Old people still can't figure out the pound and pence thing, nevermind the euro!

I am going to phone Joe Duffy about this!


nah really, get over it, it's just a few numbers

unkel

Originally posted by mukki
1/4af,5/16af,11/32af,wtf/42,ffs/omg.....

ROFL

sceptre

Originally posted by PBC_1966
I haven't been to Ireland since 1998, but I remember at that time it being a guessing game as to whether the next distance sign would be miles or kilometers. Have all (or the majority) of distance signs now been converted?

You can pretty much assume they've all been converted. There are a few of the old ones still left but I'll go out on a limb and say they're probably all in the real ass end of nowhere and usually Ballywhoknowswhere - 1.

unkel

Originally posted by sceptre
Ballywhoknowswhere - 1.

Ballygobackwards 1 3/4

smoke.me.a.kipper

the sign in the Kerrygold ad hasnt been changed.

Inch - 1m

PBC_1966

Next thing the EU will wants us to drive on the wrong side of the road!

EU Directive 999/EC/213546-B/501-C/234745/EEC specifies that the UK and RoI can implement a phased changeover plan, in which large vehicles such as trucks and buses will switch to driving on the right in 2005, while cars will make the change in 2006. Bicycles and motorcycles will not be required to change until 2009.

Those of us who grew up using Imperial measures have no trouble with them. Those socket-set sizes may look odd to someone who's never used them, but when you use them regularly you automatically know that 5/16 is larger than 1/4 and that 11/16 is larger than 5/8 etc. And the metric sizes don't always run so smoothly anyway. What's the next size up from 5mm?

There is a group here in Britain known as ARM -- Active Resistance to Metrication. They keep a look out for metric road signs (which are illegal under our Road Traffic Acts) and report them to councils when found. Although km hasn't replaced miles, some councils have taken it upon themselves to start using meters instead of yards on some signs, and in some cases posting height limits in meters instead of feet and inches.

ARM requests that the council comply with the law and replace the signs with correct English versions. If the council doesn't do so, they go out armed with the appropriate tools and modify the signs themselves.

seamus

Originally posted by PBC_1966
EU Directive 999/EC/213546-B/501-C/234745/EEC specifies that the UK and RoI can implement a phased changeover plan, in which large vehicles such as trucks and buses will switch to driving on the right in 2005, while cars will make the change in 2006. Bicycles and motorcycles will not be required to change until 2009.

Heh, yeah, lots of luck with that one.

Those of us who grew up using Imperial measures have no trouble with them. Those socket-set sizes may look odd to someone who's never used them, but when you use them regularly you automatically know that 5/16 is larger than 1/4 and that 11/16 is larger than 5/8 etc. And the metric sizes don't always run so smoothly anyway. What's the next size up from 5mm?

And those of us who didn't grow up with Imperial haven't a clue. I'm 22, and metric measurements are way over my head. I can measure in metres and centimetres from eye, but not in inches and feet, and certainly not yards. so it's about time to change. Within 10 years, you'll have a majority not familiar with Imperial. For the record, the next size up from 5mm is 5.5mm, but it's the only anomaly. And everyone knows that 5.5 > 5. It's not so clear with Imperial measurements.

Imperial measurements are a throwback to the middle ages, when the gentry devised complex ways of calculating the grades in all aspects of everyday things that needs counting - speed, distance, money. This was a form of control to help keep the peasants ignorant, and ensure that the gentry stayed at the top of the chain. As someone has said - we have ten fingers. If they had devised a decimal system, it would have been too accessible to the peasants.

Imperial is old and obsolete.

unkel

Originally posted by seamus
Imperial is old and obsolete.

Hear, hear

seamus

Actually, I had an afterthough of why we're switching which I thought I should share with you:

In less than 10 seconds each, and without the aid of a calculator or pen and paper, solve the following two questions:

1. How many inches in 1 and 3/8 miles?

2. How many centimetres in 1.375 kilometres?

I think you will now see why it's blatantly obvious that metric is the way forward.

sceptre

Originally posted by seamus
1. How many inches in 1 and 3/8 miles?

87120

Took me rather longer than ten seconds without a calculator or pencil though, especially given that I can only multiply or divide with small numbers or multiples of 10 in me noggin as I find it faster.

20 second method:
1 mile = 1760 yards
1760/8 = 125 + (100 - (40/8)) = 220
1&3/8 miles = 11/8 miles = ((10+1)8) miles.
1 yard = 36 inches

Hence,
((((220 * 3)*10) + ((220 * 3)*2))*1) + ((((220 * 3)*10) + ((220*3)*2))*10)
= 6600+1320+((6600+1320)*10)
= 7920+79200
= 8000+79200-80
= 87200-80
= 87120


Took almost as long to check it with a calculator (1760*3*12*1.375). And of course you have to remember how many yards or feet are in a mile or else you're sunk.


Under-two-seconds method of converting 1.375km into cm:
137,500

Stupid-proof.

I thought it was worth taking the time to illustrate exactly how much more complicated the process is (obviously we all know it's more complicated). I'd regard Seamus's illustrated point as completely true. The imperial system is truly the work of the devil. If we'd gone metric first, we'd look on anyone suggesting the imperial system as a crazy weirdo.