Racisim in Ireland

Memnoch

so is this topic about racism or broadband or both?

the problem with racism in ireland, isn't the ignorant scumbag on the street telling you to f'off to your home country,

its the deeper routed institutionalised backdoor racism that seems to pervade through even the most educated people in the country...

don't believe me? sit down with any non-national non consultant doctor and have a chat...

you might be surprised... its the main reason I won't be working in ireland after i qualify, because the grim reality is, I would not be able to advance in my career, I would always be overlooked for someone irish... and while i can understand that people feel the "locals" should get the job...

my opinion on any job as been that the best man for the job should get it.

sign

Well memnoch as you rightly pointed out ,
this topic by molinaalexis started out as a mixture of topics so nothing thus far has really been off topic
unless the mighty mod moriarty..*sarcasm* says so ;

if I may quote you memnoch:

the ignorant scumbag on the street telling you to f'off to your home country,

I d just like to add that the only incidents I have seen of this behaviour is by those who everyone wishes would piss off . The type who usually trade in lines like :

' Got any change for a hostel bud' which can be translated as ' I spent all my dole money on drugs and need some more money for drugs .I d hit you over the head and take your money without asking you if I could get away with it .'

Thousands of years of history cant be analysed overnight and if you are from outside this country youre going to be facing a 10,000 year hierarchy .
Just look at the example of newgrange and youll realise that a culture has been evolving on this island since way before the pyramids were conceived.You have to convince people that you have a love for Ireland and want to stay here , thats your problem .

The problem isnt racism .Its the simple fact that for millennia and among every single culture that has ever existed on this planet there exists the behaviour of people generally looking after those they perceive to be more closely allied to themselves and their own cause .
It doesnt deserve the word 'racism ' because it doesnt involve race hate ;modern examples of which can be found in the hutu tutsi massacres .
It exists among all races and among all select groups of people who feel they have fought to get where they are today and all newbies have to face the fight for recogntion among their peers . Its very complex.Nobody or very few would hate you and in fact many would admire your intelligence and skills .
You say you can easily leave this country but by doing so youre actually proving your lack of commitment to Irish society ; sad but true because you cant prove for sure that your career would be in jeopardy by staying here . You merely are assuming this because Ireland has not been used to immigration in the past.
Everything that every section of society has today was fought for against vested interests and thats no exaggeration , everything from the right to vote to the right to education was fought for and it wasnt handed to people on a plate . They had to fight for it and they had to hand the fight onto their children and their childrens children .
In my opinion , competition for top jobs reduces inflationary pressures and is a good thing for the consumer but a bad thing for vested interests .When I look at how my VHI bill has increased almost exponentially over the years , it brings home how important such competition is .

oh and this may be off topic here but eirCON SUX

Moriarty

These are posts split from this thread in ioffl. This was the original post that the above were referring to..

Originally posted by molinaalexis
THE latest World Competitiveness Report from IMD shows that Ireland competes very effectively on a global basis, heading the league tables in a number of important categories, notably educational achievement, corporate tax rates and investment incentives.

But we fall down on some crucial areas, such as access to broadband communications.

When it comes to "suitable access" to the internet, Ireland is ranked 29 out of the 29 countries surveyed. It is also discomforting to read that the country is ranked in the same position when it comes to discrimination on grounds of race and gender.

And it will hardly come as a surprise that bribery and corruption is judged to exist in the economy, with Ireland ranked 19th out of 29 when it comes to dealing with these factors.

But the economy is also performing well in some other key areas, with a ranking of number two in the export of commercial services and real GDP growth. Ireland is also judged to be the second most welcoming country for foreign companies.

The country occupies third spot in crucial areas such as the export of high-tech goods, productivity and growth in productivity.

Ireland is placed fourth when it comes to promoting women into senior positions, our ability to attract high-skilled workers from abroad and the overall image of the country abroad.

Pat Boyle

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=184&si=1175355&issue_id=10820

Beruthiel

Originally posted by Memnoch
I would always be overlooked for someone irish...

well Memnoch
I don't know where you are from, not that it makes a difference, but if you are still in school and haven't started looking for a job yet, then how do you know how difficult it is?
there are many nationalities working in Ireland who have managed to find jobs, why would you think that things would be worse for you?

DaithiSurfer

I believe the Irish get a bad rap on Racism.
There is a difference between treating people the same and singleing them out because of their race.
If i call someone a prick i dont care what colour he is. If he's black i still think hes a prick.
No, more, no less than any other race, creed etc that he may be.

I think most Irish people are this way and this is perceived to be racism by anyone that might witness me calling a black person a prick. Of course they wouldnt notice as much if i called an irish person a prick.

Jesus, if you think the Irish are racist, go to London. The black people are racist against Indians, arabs etc. The white people are racist against the black people, but not as much as towards arabs, and indians.
Ireland hasnt got a patch on London for racism.

Beruthiel

Originally posted by DaithiSurfer
Jesus, if you think the Irish are racist, go to London. The black people are racist against Indians, arabs etc. The white people are racist against the black people, but not as much as towards arabs, and indians.
Ireland hasnt got a patch on London for racism.

hell ya,
you just reminded me of the time last year when I went to Birmingham for a few days training for work, I was using an Indian taxi driver to go between the training centre and the hotel (dead sound bloke who had me laughing during the whole trip).
The hotel manager gave me a different taxi number to use cos they were English drivers!
When we were being served dinner he did nothing but slag off the French, I can only guess what he said about me when my back was turned :rolleyes:

raphaelS

Just to add my 0.2 cents...

Being a "non-national", I've never felt any racism against me in Ireland. I'm white and French that probably helps though... :rolleyes:

The fact that Irish immigrants have a long history of victim of racism in UK, US,... and that immigration to Ireland is something "new" mean that, I think, there isn't an issue with racism...
Yet, that might arise in few years so take care or you would become as racist as the French and I will need to move!

Raphael

ixoy

Originally posted by DaithiSurfer
I believe the Irish get a bad rap on Racism.
There is a difference between treating people the same and singleing them out because of their race.
If i call someone a prick i dont care what colour he is. If he's black i still think hes a prick.
No, more, no less than any other race, creed etc that he may be.

Ditto. I was watching Curb Your Enthusiasm last night (1x09 - Affirmative Action) and there's a perfect scene in it where Larry, off handedly, makes some stupid remark (as usual) to a black man that the black man takes as racist even though Larry- rightly - says noone would have batted an eyelid if he'd made the same comment to a white guy.

Memnoch

Originally posted by Beruthiel
well Memnoch
I don't know where you are from, not that it makes a difference, but if you are still in school and haven't started looking for a job yet, then how do you know how difficult it is?
there are many nationalities working in Ireland who have managed to find jobs, why would you think that things would be worse for you?

Berthie, I'm almost in my final year of Medical school at this stage... both my parents are doctor's and worked in ireland at some stage... I was born in India and have been living here for 7 years now. I honestly love the country, i love the people, the culture, the attitude, and most of all I love Dublin. I'd dearly love to love to live here, but I know that its not really a good option.

the issue isn't one of getting a job... there are many many many non-consultant hospital doctors in ireland that are non-nationals... Ireland has a gross shortage of medical staff, so they HAVE to hire from outside... the issue is of promotion and advancement. How many non-white consultants do you know?

How many non-white consultants do you know in DUBLIN...

My parents both worked here and dealt with the harsh reality of institutionalised racism. And its not racism in that they hate people of another color, its a more perverse attitude that they use race to discriminate against others who are in competition with them.

This is something that is felt by a large majority of NCHDs who are non-nationals working here... no matter how hard you work, how good you are, you simply won't advance...

i'll give you a single example, though there are many many incidents I could recount to you..

this graduate of my college an arab was working in Beaumont hospital... he was a really good doctor.. there was a job going for a consultant training post, and he had obviously applied, having the apporpriate qualifications not to mention the work experience. It was at this point that his consultants on his team approached him and told him that if he wishes to advance his career he should leave ireland. They told him that this job would be given to a "white irish male". They told him this because they liked him and wanted him to do well in his career, so they advised him to leave ireland which he did.

My parents also migrated from Ireland to the UK for similar reasons. This kind of institutionalised discrimination isn't only in Ireland, its also in the UK to a lesser extent, and despite my personal dislike for the USA, its the least in that country.

A final fact I will relate to you...

NON-EU Students who qualify as doctors from universities in Ireland CANNOT work in the UK without clearing the PLAB exam (which is basically the same as your final medical exam but easier)
While students qualifying from the same universities who are EU citizens don't have to take the PLAB exam...

now tell me, isn't this discrimination? Two people, with the exact same qualification, but one is not allowed to work while the other is, purely based on their birthplace?

I suppose its all well and good for those inside the system.. but for someone like me and many others like, who all we want to do is work hard and make a better life for ourselves, these kinds of beuracratic barriers are widespread throughout the system, as nothing more than clever hidden discrimination based on one's birthplace.

Fionnan

Memnoch,
The PLAB exam is to ensure a certain competency in English but i do admit it is crazy to think native French and German speakers would be any more fluent at English thasn any1 else. Plus it is a requirement for work in England not Ireland. If you have been medically educated in an Irish university you may work here without a PLAB.

quote "this graduate of my college an arab was working in Beaumont hospital... he was a really good doctor.. there was a job going for a consultant training post, and he had obviously applied, having the apporpriate qualifications not to mention the work experience. It was at this point that his consultants on his team approached him and told him that if he wishes to advance his career he should leave ireland."

If an Irish doctor wants to advance his career to consultant level it usually means that he/she will have to get a least a few years foreign training before he/she is offered a post( ie: competing with other doctors who have had experience abroad whether Irish or otherwise).

You have not seen many foreign consultants? I find that hard to believe, i have seen quite a few in other (non-RCSI) hospitals. DO you show up regularly for your clinical attachment? I know a little about med student attendence for clinicals.

And to reiterate, an Irish doctor who wants to advance their career to consultant level now, usually has to go abroad for some time to train, as well as publish research.

And if you graduate next year you will get an intern job somewhere in Ireland, and i believe the job choices are allocated on rank in the class, not race. Well in tcd anyway

Memnoch

Originally posted by Fionnan
Memnoch,
The PLAB exam is to ensure a certain competency in English but i do admit it is crazy to think native French and German speakers would be any more fluent at English thasn any1 else. Plus it is a requirement for work in England not Ireland. If you have been medically educated in an Irish university you may work here without a PLAB.

yes indeed I was referring to the UK, to show that this kind of thing isn't just in ireland. The whole competency of english is a bit ridiculous, they can always ask ppl whose english may be suspect to take the ELISA (i think thats what its called). I mean I did the leaving cert. here, I got an A1 in honors english, which is like top 3% or something, yet I'm required to take the plab to prove my competence with the english language, and if I wish to work I have to wait atleast 2 years, cause u can't take step 1 until after u finish intern year, and so on and so forth.

If an Irish doctor wants to advance his career to consultant level it usually means that he/she will have to get a least a few years foreign training before he/she is offered a post( ie: competing with other doctors who have had experience abroad whether Irish or otherwise).

yes but again preference is clearly given to Irish doctors, the "white irish male" quote is an example of this.

You have not seen many foreign consultants? I find that hard to believe, i have seen quite a few in other (non-RCSI) hospitals. DO you show up regularly for your clinical attachment? I know a little about med student attendence for clinicals.

I've attended all my clinicals. There are very few foreign consultants in Dublin. I've seen a "few" in the peripheries.

And if you graduate next year you will get an intern job somewhere in Ireland, and i believe the job choices are allocated on rank in the class, not race. Well in tcd anyway

getting a job as an intern is not a problem, as i said, there is a shortage in the irish healthcare system of NCHDs, its the whole career advancement thing to which there are numerous bariers throughout the system for non-nationals.

combs

I would just like to add briefly that I have never witnessed racism of any kind in Ireland. If there are others who can say the same then I think it's important for them to say so. This racism witch-hunting seems to come from irate Irish activists, operating on very questionable motives and spreading lies and hear-say to incite anger. So far, neither Ireland and the Irish are the demons these people would have us believe.

Memnoch

i would disagree combs,
i have witnessed and know people who have been affected by it..

hell a while back my girlfriend, who is pakistani, was told ,
"chinese bit*h, why don't you go back to china"

which is actually kinda funy, since as I've mentioned, she is pakistani, lol

combs

It's not much worse than being called a culchie or a knacker. It's ignorant alright, but there are lots of ignorant people about. Let's not get our knickers in a twist over it.

Fionnan

Quote "The whole competency of english is a bit ridiculous, they can always ask ppl whose english may be suspect to take the ELISA (i think thats what its called). I mean I did the leaving cert. here, I got an A1 in honors english, which is like top 3% or something, yet I'm required to take the plab to prove my competence with the english language, and if I wish to work I have to wait atleast 2 years, cause u can't take step 1 until after u finish intern year, and so on and so forth."

By STep 1 i think you are referring to USMLE, exams to assess competency to practice in the US .. All people who are foreign to those countries have to sit the exams to practice in USA, white , black, pink or purple. This exam has nothing to do with England.

Secondly you can take "step 1" at any time you like. It primarily assesses a candidates knowledge of the basic sciences with reference to medicine. IE: Physics, Chem. Maths, Bio, Anatomy, Biochem, etc. Step 2 is written assesment of subjects like Surg, Medicine, Paeds. Step 3 is the clinical exam of USMLE, the part taken after u finish med school.

Most people in my class who want to work in the US took step 1 at the end of 3rd med so the subjects examined would be fresh in their minds. As you are in 5th med you will find sitting step 1 very hard work now, and that is nothing to do with RACISM, just not getting the finger out.

And finally since you got an A1 in honours English LEaving Cert, then the PLAB should be no problem for you. Just waste an afternoon and sit it. Or better still using your training grant as intern to go on a nice little holiday to sit the exam. Just don't complain on the boards using ahem suspect information.

Strangely enough as a % of the total population, foreign conultants seem to be well represented here( in SJH and Tala anyway), and fair play to them too. No figures to back it up though, can you pls post em?

Oh i just noticed , you are here in Ireland 7years. When you reach 8 years you may apply for permanent resisdency here which i think may bypass the PLAB exam. Best of Luck

Fionnan

By the way, why do u call yourself Memnoch?. Just googled it and the top links are a bit scarey if you are training to be a doctor. THen again your handle could mean something totally different. Sorry if i misunderstood the links.

Memnoch

Originally posted by Fionnan
By the way, why do u call yourself Memnoch?. Just googled it and the top links are a bit scarey if you are training to be a doctor. THen again your handle could mean something totally different. Sorry if i misunderstood the links.

i read a novel by Anne Rice when I was 17 years old called Memnoch the Devil,
it was a really cool book, very intersting and she portrayed Memnoch in a very interesting light... ever since then I liked the idea of using it as a nick...

not Memnoch as in the Devil of your google references,
but the Memnoch of Anne Rice's book, which was actually a pretty cool charecter..

since i'm not a big fan of religion I didn't mind using it as a nick

Memnoch

even though i'm in ireland 7 years, i think almost 8 years now, the time i spent in medical school doesn't count, so by that account i'm only in ireland for 2 years.

all the years on a student visa don't count.

Fionnan

oh well,
At least i hope you are clear on the exam structure for docs wanting to work in USA and UK.
I assume i was right about the various steps seeing how you haven'tr brought them up again.
If you are going to cry racism, at least don't use examples that are wrong, eg PLAB and STEP 1
All the best
Fionnan

Memnoch

gah i know what the usmle's are

plab has part 1 and part 2 afaik...

so i used the word step 1 instead, it meant the same thing essentially.

as for "cry racism" this isn't something i've fabricated, this is something that has been experienced by many many many non-national NCHDs working in ireland, especially non-whites. its been experienced by my parents, and their friends...

you may deny this, but thats probably because you haven't experienced it, or known someone who has first hand..

i even see it in medical school, like on labour ward, every time the good patient, the one more likely to deliver is given to the irish student..

once could be coincindence, maybe twice, but for every case 5 nights in a row?

but i always got the prima, who was like 2 cms dilated.. maybe will deliver in the next 8 hours if i'm lucky...

Fionnan

Sorry about the mix up on PLAB

I have experienced it 1st hand, some middle eastern students said i wasn't welcome in my own country even though i am Irish. Made the mistake of saying Jerusalem is the capital of Israel( which it is). Dhimmitude! is still alive and well. also when talking to some of the foreign women in public can be difficuly especially as there was one guy who wud stare at you and the lady in question the whole time. I got into med school through my own hard work, no grinds etc, and out again the same way and i take great exception to be frowned upon by people who got in thru Mammy/Daddy, goverment scholarship(because of their religion etc) with only the basic maticulation requierments who wud not get in on points, just because i am the wrong religion/race/clan etc. Case in point. Malaysia has 3 main groups, Malay(moslem), Chinese, Indian. The Malay are dominant, but Malay students here get full goverament scholarships to study purely because they are Malay moslem, while the Chinese/Indian get no scholarship. Now that is racism

As for the labour ward you are more likely to get good cases by developing a good working relationship with the midwives. As Irish we generally find this easier because we may know friends of friend etc, but any foreign students who have the gift of the gab in my class had less problems getting good delivery cases. And we were all complaining about not getting enough, Irish and foreign but that was because there was too few patients for med students.
Personally i got prima as well and had several patients who hadn't delivered by the time i had to hand over each night, and i did it for 7 days and only got 3 deliveries and i'm Irish . We found that the good cases were allocated to the student midwives 1st(rightly so), not allocated on race. Foreign midwives had no complaints about allocations based on race that i heard but they are welcome to correct me if i am wrong(Rotunda).
From talking to my foreign colleagues(and working with them), their complaints of racism concern the scum on the street or some of the scummy patients and their kids calling names, which is wrong, not about institutional racism. MAybe RCSI is different.
Hey Memnoch are you one of Hickey's protege. Are bio soc representatives weren't too impressed by his inaugaral speech, understandable since one's parents had to flee a "socialist paradise" for having the wrong views.

All the best
fionnan

Memnoch

Originally posted by Fionnan
I have experienced it 1st hand, some middle eastern students said i wasn't welcome in my own country even though i am Irish. Made the mistake of saying Jerusalem is the capital of Israel( which it is). Dhimmitude! is still alive and well.

Yes, I agree, that arab's and muslims in general can be quite fanatical about such issues, I've had a few intersting "discussions" with them myself when I have pointed out that I'm not sure if the Quran, or any religious text for that matter can still be the same as it was when it was originally created xxxx years ago. That however doesn't explain or make right, the discrimination that takes place.

also when talking to some of the foreign women in public can be difficuly especially as there was one guy who wud stare at you and the lady in question the whole time.

I'm not sure about this. I've not had any such difficulties, but maybe its because my Uni (RCSI) has a lot more foreign students and people here are used to mixing with each other. I've had friends of all nationalities and races.

I got into med school through my own hard work, no grinds etc, and out again the same way and i take great exception to be frowned upon by people who got in thru Mammy/Daddy, goverment scholarship(because of their religion etc) with only the basic maticulation requierments who wud not get in on points, just because i am the wrong religion/race/clan etc.

Strangely enough, I got enough points to get into medical school, but because I had only been in ireland for two years, I still have to pay the fees of an international student to be able to study here, how much does that suck? I guess its the other side of the coin to what you're talking about. As for government scholarship, its no different here. In ireland the government pays for your education. I have a lot of Kuwaiti students in my class who were top of their class back where they come from, and because of a lack of medical schools and personal there, their government gives them a scholarship to study here..

its a process which is benificial, as both cultures get exposure to each other, not to mention the added revenue to irish universities.

Case in point. Malaysia has 3 main groups, Malay(moslem), Chinese, Indian. The Malay are dominant, but Malay students here get full goverament scholarships to study purely because they are Malay moslem, while the Chinese/Indian get no scholarship. Now that is racism

sure I agree, but one person committing murder, does not lessen the severity of another person committing rape.

As for the labour ward you are more likely to get good cases by developing a good working relationship with the midwives. As Irish we generally find this easier because we may know friends of friend etc, but any foreign students who have the gift of the gab in my class had less problems getting good delivery cases. And we were all complaining about not getting enough, Irish and foreign but that was because there was too few patients for med students.

actually I got on quite well.. and was quite friendly to them. I also did my utmost to helpout whereever I could. I'm more Irish than I am indian really, and I tend to get along well with most doctors/nurses on my rotations, certainly more so than some other students, maybe its because my attitude is very similar to that of people here, or perhaps its my fluency with english. In any case, at first I thought I was just paranoid, about not getting cases while my partner had no shortage.

Then out of the blue, a friend of mine who was doing his obs & gynae rotation who was also "non-white" mentioned the same thing to me...

Personally i got prima as well and had several patients who hadn't delivered by the time i had to hand over each night, and i did it for 7 days and only got 3 deliveries and i'm Irish . We found that the good cases were allocated to the student midwives 1st(rightly so), not allocated on race. Foreign midwives had no complaints about allocations based on race that i heard but they are welcome to correct me if i am wrong(Rotunda).

yes the midwives got the easiest cases, then the next easy cases went to my irish partner, and IF anything was left over I could get lucky...

From a personal point of view, this was extremely frustrating, spending each night from 8pm to 8am in the morning in the hospital, sitting there for most of the time twiddling my thumbs, while i could be getting some much needed sleep so I could study for my exams. Honestly if they don't want to give us cases, don't make it compulsary to attend.

From talking to my foreign colleagues(and working with them), their complaints of racism concern the scum on the street or some of the scummy patients and their kids calling names, which is wrong, not about institutional racism. MAybe RCSI is different.

Ah, I HIGHLY doubt that they would mention or complain of institutionalised racism to an irish colleague. That would just be suicide.. how do they know they can trust you? Off course I don't know how close friends you are with them. But I can tell you, i've heard many many incidents, as have my parents.

Hey Memnoch are you one of Hickey's protege. Are bio soc representatives weren't too impressed by his inaugaral speech, understandable since one's parents had to flee a "socialist paradise" for having the wrong views.

sorry about the ignorance, but I have no idea who Hickey is

anyways, I'll be dissapearing now for a few weeks, got finals to study for and I'm well behind in my preparation..
so prolly no posts from me for the next 4-5 weeks or so

thanks for an interesting discussion nevertheless

The Sweeper

You know, racism can lie in the smallest things...

I live in England and work in London for a transcription company. About a week ago I went down to the local Argos to buy a batch of AA batteries for recording equipment. There were two Eastern Europeans in front of me in the queue arguing over something in a supplementary catalogue - they tried to explain to the guy at the counter (who was a real wide-boy, about 22 years old) but he sent them to the customer services counter.

When I got to his till next, he said to me "you do speak english don't you?"

I paused for a second before saying "yeah darlin', but probably not with the right accent".

Raskolnikov

Originally posted by Memnoch

My parents also migrated from Ireland to the UK for similar reasons. This kind of institutionalised discrimination isn't only in Ireland, its also in the UK to a lesser extent, and despite my personal dislike for the USA, its the least in that country.

In my opinion, the USA is almost as bad as Ireland for racism. Blacks, whites, Asians all live in seperate quarters of the cities with A LOT of hostility towards each other. Politics and business over there is soley dominated but white jewish/christian men, not only that but it seems to be acceptable. Things are pretty bad in the cities too, An aunt's friend of mine was even telling me that she even has to drive her kids to school every day to ensure that they didn't get beaten up by the black kids. Race riots are still common in parts of the US but usually go unreported.

It's a shame that when you graduate from medical school you'll face these problems. I know that I and 99% of Irish natives would have no problem getting treated by an Indian doctor, so prehaps you should give it a chance here? As we get more and more people here from different races/cultures I'm sure we'll develop more and more acceptance.

BrianD3

You know, racism can lie in the smallest things...

I live in England and work in London for a transcription company. About a week ago I went down to the local Argos to buy a batch of AA batteries for recording equipment. There were two Eastern Europeans in front of me in the queue arguing over something in a supplementary catalogue - they tried to explain to the guy at the counter (who was a real wide-boy, about 22 years old) but he sent them to the customer services counter.

When I got to his till next, he said to me "you do speak english don't you?"

I paused for a second before saying "yeah darlin', but probably not with the right accent".

How is that racism? The guy at the till was dealing with two argumentative people, so he did what he was probably trained to do and referred them to customer services.

And his comment to you about speaking english sounds pretty innocent to me. After dealing with two argumentative people with presumably a poor grasp of the english language (otherwise why would he have brought up language at all?) he hopes that the next customer isn't going to give him the same hassle. Sounds like you read too much into his comment.

BTW even if he is racist and makes negative judgements on people based on their skin colour and language etc., haven't you just done something similar - by judging someone you've just met in a shop as a "wide-boy".

BrianD3

combs

Originally posted by BrianD3
How is that racism? The guy at the till was dealing with two argumentative people, so he did what he was probably trained to do and referred them to customer services.

And his comment to you about speaking english sounds pretty innocent to me. After dealing with two argumentative people with presumably a poor grasp of the english language (otherwise why would he have brought up language at all?) he hopes that the next customer isn't going to give him the same hassle. Sounds like you read too much into his comment.

BTW even if he is racist and makes negative judgements on people based on their skin colour and language etc., haven't you just done something similar - by judging someone you've just met in a shop as a "wide-boy".

BrianD3

Well said. I've never seen racism but I've seen people do harm by crying racism for no reason.

There's a climate of accusation surrounding racism at the moment. It's sure to go away when people grow up a bit. I just hope it's soon.

Fionnan

Hi Memnoch,
Mr Hickey is the (renal) transplant surgeon in Beumont and was the president this year of the biological society in the RCSI. I will say no more abt his politics, i may have to work for him some day.

As i pointed out i have had discussions with them(some of the Arabs) which is basically being told i am not welcome in my own country (rumour of me beong Jewish). Yes and i know RCSI is more diverse and i welcome the fees the pay(nice having heated classrooms, a great change from school), but i think it is wrong that a woman (middle-eastern) can be friends with me out of public sight, but we both had to be careful in public(ie college).
I wasn't even seeing the girl, we were just friends. And most of the Arabs are just fine, and some of them on government scholarship did matriculate with the Leaving cert but DID NOT get the same high marks as the Irish and others.
And yes we do mix, but you must admit as an Indian you know a relationship with one of the lovely girls will spell difficulty, more so for her becuase she will eventually have to go back and live in an ISlamic country. One of our classmates also thinks Sharia law is the best thing since slice bread( under Sharia non-moslem witnesses' testimoney is considered to be worth less than a moslem irregardless of character/past conviction), which is quit funny considering she is studying in a dhimmi university.

OH AND BEST OF LUCK IN YOUR FINALS!. i AM NOT SURE abT the RCSI setup though, so my advice, itsa a lot worse than it actually seems, you will come out of the exam(S), especially the clinicals feeling you did terribly because of difficult questions. I you come out of a clinical feeling you did great and you could answer all the questions beware! The vast majority of people pass, especially the people who have gone through the Irish(and English) 2nd level systems. IE YOU. Oh and a gynae tip "never insult the vagina by examining the rectum 1st"- the quote is in Impey or Talley/O'Connor.

minority

Originally posted by Minesajackdaniels
You know, racism can lie in the smallest things...

I live in England and work in London for a transcription company. About a week ago I went down to the local Argos to buy a batch of AA batteries for recording equipment. There were two Eastern Europeans in front of me in the queue arguing over something in a supplementary catalogue - they tried to explain to the guy at the counter (who was a real wide-boy, about 22 years old) but he sent them to the customer services counter.

When I got to his till next, he said to me "you do speak english don't you?"

I paused for a second before saying "yeah darlin', but probably not with the right accent".

Maybe he was having a joke with you, but your search for racism in the smallest thing couldnt handle the fact that it might just be a joke based on his inability to communicate with the previous guys, so you made a racist remark out of it. I've seen this hapen so many times.