Irish language in northern County Down

majorharry

It seems that some instruction has been given by the EU to Local Councils in NI that street names should be given in both English and Irish. In most towns in the north of County Down fewer than 0.01% of the population understand Irish and only a marginally larger percentage would welcome the language. Having done some research on this I found that a much larger number of people would accept the instruction if Ulster-Scots was also included on the nameplates.
However, the EU does not recognise Ulster-Scots as a language and say no ---only English and Irish. The local populace see this as yet another example of their culture being over-ridden by something alien.

My personal feeling is that the street nameplates should be in all three languages irrespective of the increased cost involved.

Any ideas on a solution?

hate_sycophants

Originally posted by majorharry
It seems that some instruction has been given by the EU to Local Councils in NI that street names should be given in both English and Irish. In most towns in the north of County Down fewer than 0.01% of the population understand Irish and only a marginally larger percentage would welcome the language. Having done some research on this I found that a much larger number of people would accept the instruction if Ulster-Scots was also included on the nameplates.
However, the EU does not recognise Ulster-Scots as a language and say no ---only English and Irish. The local populace see this as yet another example of their culture being over-ridden by something alien.

My personal feeling is that the street nameplates should be in all three languages irrespective of the increased cost involved.

Any ideas on a solution?

Forget Ulster-Scots. As the EU have correctly pointed out, it is not an official language. However, given recent developments to take Ireland from the list of official languages it is likely that neither will happen in the end.

sceptre

Originally posted by hate_sycophants
However, given recent developments to take Ireland from the list of official languages it is likely that neither will happen in the end.

We've had big long threads on that one. Irish isn't being "dropped", the campaign was to have it "added". There was some considerable misunderstanding on that.

Majorharry, don't suppose you have a link to the advice or order from the EU to the councils? Haven't read about this anywhere so it'd be an interesting read.

Victor

Originally posted by hate_sycophants
Forget Ulster-Scots. As the EU have correctly pointed out, it is not an official language. However, given recent developments to take Ireland from the list of official languages it is likely that neither will happen in the end.

I'm sorry, but we've been over this quite a few times. Irish is not being degraded by the EU, it is being degraded by Irish people.

majorharry

Sceptre

An article on this topic was in a local newspaper a couple of weeks ago.

This is the only information I have.

Sorry I can't be of any more help

sceptre

That's fair enough - I wasn't doubting you, just interested. I'll see what I can drag up over the coming days.

My own preference is generally that feelings of local people should /always/ be respected if they don't affect anyone else (and always be considered even if they do). I'll post a considered post after some research.

simu

Ulster Scots is just a dialect of English. Having road signs in it would be as ridiculous as having road names in Dublin written phonetically as they are pronounced in a heavy Dublin accent. But then again, if people want to be ridiculous, let them.

simu

Here's a page by the BBC on Ulster Scots though, for anyone who is interested!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/northernireland/learning/voices/ulsterscots/

Johnny_the_fox

Originally posted by majorharry
It seems that some instruction has been given by the EU to Local Councils in NI that street names should be given in both English and Irish....

I think has mainly to do with the GFA.. and not the EU

Originally posted by Victor
Irish is not being degraded by the EU, it is being degraded by Irish people.

nice.. must put that in my sig...

Originally posted by Simu
Ulster Scots is just a dialect of English.

Like me, most people would agree with you...

sceptre

Originally posted by simu
Ulster Scots is just a dialect of English

Thanks, simu, you've saved me doing part of my "research" (er, google searches). I've been reading John McWhorter's "The Power of Babel" lately and there's an interesting section on the fate of Scots. I just wanted to be sure Ulster Scots was pretty much the same thing or at least closely related or a derivative of. Apparently Scots-English has become more like standard English over the centuries, particularly since 1707.

I see from your link that both Foras na Gaeilge and Tha Boord o Ulstèr-Scotch make up the North/South Language Body under the Belfast Agreement/GFA. I assume, like JTF said, that this decision to place Irish signs on streets falls under the Belfast agreement.

And with that in mind I don't see the problem with placing Ulster-Scots on the signs as well. It's a dialect of English, sure but in my limited experience of Scots, it's different enough that academics are still arguing over whether it's just a dialect or a language. I see the European Bureau for Lesser Used Languages also recognises Ulster-Scots as one of the lesser used languages of Europe which puts it on a firm standing on its own. Is there a good reason for not putting it on signs?