need some advice

LegacyUser

ok i've just finished my first year of college and made some really cool friends.
one of the best friends i've made eventually came out and admitted to the group that he's gay. i was so happy for him because he told me b4 everyone else and he was always so uptight and wasnt being himself.

so anyway everybody in the group was so supportive and we were all really there for him but lately he's been acting so selfish. his favourite expression is "you wouldnt understand....nobody does" (which totally píssed me off being a bisexual female) and nobody can even mention the fact that he's gay. i made the mistake of suggesting that we go on a big night out and maybe go to some gay bars so he could unwind and enjoy himself.

i understand that his parents would react really badly but he's not living at home and i mean they're hardly going to hear about the conversations we have in college.

anyway lately everything revolves around the fact that he's gay. he says he's lonely and wants a relationship and i dont want to sound harsh but i dont see how he can have a realtionship when he's being so immature.

i know i probably sound like a heartless bìtch but we have been listening to this for months. one of the girls has been going through a really tough time with family and he belittled her situation by saying "yea well my problems are way worse, i mean she has no idea what I'M going through." i just found this nasty and self-centred.

has anybody else encountered this and is there anything i can say? i dont want to fall out with hin but i wont put up with such selfishness and neither will our friends.

Boston

Have you ever thought that maybe he is right and you don't know what he is going through because he hasn't told you about it. Maybe he's on a self loathing trip, nothing worse then hating yourself for being yourself. Its sounds to me that your pissed because he isn't having as easy a time of it as you are/did. You know just because he doesn't live with his parents doesn't mean he doesn't love them and that fear of them rejecting his life style isn't a issue for him. And you can't use that fact that other people have bigger problems to belittle his, otherwise your just doing what you accused him of doing.

Being a bi sexual female is very different then being a gay male. For one males tend not to be threatened by your sexuality. You're not really going into to much detail here. You say all your friends supported him, maybe that's the issue, maybe he doesn't like being treated differently to the way he was before.

I dont want to fall out with hin but i wont put up with such selfishness and neither will our friends.

He's having a hard time, put up with his crap, it's what friends are for. You wouldn't believe the stuff I've done and put up with for my friends, and the **** I've dished out to them in return.

Ps is he the only male gay friend you have? If not maybe you could ask how they handled coming out.

Chinafoot

Originally posted by Boston
You say all your friends supported him, maybe that's the issue, maybe he doesn't like being treated differently to the way he was before.

i'm in a similar situation and the guy i know isnt being treated in anyway different and is still acting like a jackass. he reckons that nobody understands him too.....like he's the only gay person in the world. a very very very close cousin of mine recently came out and received an incredibly hostile reaction from his family. so i do understand how hard it is.

maybe píssed__off_girl's friend is going through a tough time but i dont think u can expect ur friends to put up with crap for too long especially when they arent interested in whats going on with you. yea i agree that friends are supposed to put up with their friends problems and try to support them because like u say thats what friends do.......however, this works both ways.

i'd say tell him he's being a jackass. he needs to realise that everyone has problems. also i dont think that she's trying to belittle his problems.

best of luck hun.....and if ya find something that works.....let me know.

claire h

>> Being a bi sexual female is very different then being a gay male. For one males tend not to be threatened by your sexuality. <<

No, males leer at you and assume you're into threesomes and all kinds of kinky business, and girls are afraid to get too close to you in case you might get the wrong idea. It's all sunshine and roses, really....

Anyway.

>> so anyway everybody in the group was so supportive and we were all really there for him but lately he's been acting so selfish. his favourite expression is "you wouldnt understand....nobody does" (which totally píssed me off being a bisexual female) and nobody can even mention the fact that he's gay. i made the mistake of suggesting that we go on a big night out and maybe go to some gay bars so he could unwind and enjoy himself. <<

Maybe he doesn't like it being an Issue, but if that's the case then he needs to stop with the "you wouldn't understand..." crap. He's not the first person to have gone through this, and it's downright arrogant of him to think that his problems with his sexuality merit him special treatment. While you should be supportive of your friends, you can only do that up to a point, and you shouldn't indulge his self-pitying complex. If he's belittling other people, that's not on, regardless of his own situation. He has absolutely no right to dismiss other people's issues like that.

He might get over it after a while, might be just a transitory phase that he's going through after the whole coming-out thing, but it couldn't help to nudge him along and explain that, y'know, he needs to stop being so selfish.

MarcusGarvey

People are different and react in different ways when they come out. He sounds selfish to me and a bit of an attention seeker but there's probably a reason for that. I'd just be patient with him for now, but maybe define some boundaries so the group can keep their cool.

A guy I know went way overboard when he came out letting everyone know he was gay and when we all knew about it he'd still turn every conversation into a discussion of his gay lifestyle. We really didn't need to know what oral sex with some guy was like when we were talking about some new sci-fi movie etc.

He calmed after a good while which was cool, he just needed daily validation and acceptance by us and when it finally sank in that it was fine by us and everyone else, then the attention seeking mostly went away.

It's probably to do with the fact for most of his life he has been repressing who he is and then when he came out the dam broke and he is flooding the world with telling everyone of his sexuality.

I think a lot of this is the fact that some people think that coming out will change their world and all their existing problems will disappear. This is mostly not true. Sounds like your friend is still not comfortable with being gay and has a lot of issues to deal with, thus his pretty obvious cry for help. Sounds like he needs to discuss things and work our more things about himself.

He should talk to someone else who has come out and how they dealt with things.

Boston

Originally posted by peachypants
so i do understand how hard it is.

No your cousin knows how hard it is, you don't, at the end of the day it's his problem not yours, and something he has to face not you.

maybe píssed__off_girl's friend is going through a tough time but i dont think u can expect ur friends to put up with crap for too long especially when they arent interested in whats going on with you. yea i agree that friends are supposed to put up with their friends problems and try to support them because like u say thats what friends do.......however, this works both ways.

Real friends would be interested, instead of sitting in judgment over someone. I put up with casual female friends bitch on for months about this guy or that guy and all the crap in between women think is important. You two are railing on this guy for not being able to suck it up and get on, well Jesus Christ people aren't machines. And by this thread both of you clearly haven't clue about what your respective friends are going through. The majority of society think their sick and depraved, and something to be scared of. Something to keep at arms length for fear of being infected, threes a hell of allot of stigma attached to this, you might want to try some empathy for once.

I'd say tell him he's being a jackass. he needs to realize that everyone has problems. also I don't think that she's trying to belittle his problems.

[/B]

I say tell him as well, he needs to realize he's alone in this and you don't care.

claire h

Originally posted by Boston
I put up with casual female friends bitch on for months about this guy or that guy and all the crap in between women think is important.

And the award for Most Bitter Person Of Today goes to...

Boston

Originally posted by claire h
And the award for Most Bitter Person Of Today goes to...

I'm not bitter, I'm just making the point that women or the original drama Queen's, and before you start on this guy for having a little life crisis, examine your own behavior.

Originally posted by claire h
and girls are afraid to get too close to you in case you might get the wrong idea.

That reminds me.
A few years ago a good crowd of my fiends were in OZ at or about the same time.
We decided to all meet up eventually and one of the lads suggested a gay bar in Sydney un beknownst to everyone else.
One of the girls was a total prude and very homophobic, she was a minx though.
Anyway after our first beer, yer one said.. That girls lookin at me... and she totally clammed up.
The ozzy girl then sat down beside my friend with her girlfriend on her lap and they started kissing each other very hard.
The look of fear/disgust on yer ones face was priceless

i know i probably sound like a heartless bìtch but we have been listening to this for months. one of the girls has been going through a really tough time with family and he belittled her situation by saying "yea well my problems are way worse, i mean she has no idea what I'M going through." i just found this nasty and self-centred.

Well was it meant to be like that?
Did he deliberately want to be nasty and self centred?
Probably not you know.
You can't get into his head , so therefore you won't be able to fully understand what he's going through, all you can do is accept it and avoid the situations where he's at his most narky about it.
It won't last forever.
Don't be deliberately looking to solve his problems either, if you want to help him , be subtle about it ie try to be doing it without him realising, so he won't get wound up.
Oh and get him to relax, have fun, chill out and forget about this relationship mullarkey untill he builds up his confidence and is more relaxed with himself.

Chinafoot

Boston:

ok first of all i just want to say that i understand that it is difficult to see the whole situation when discussing something on boards. however thsi girl asked for advice and i think that fact shows that she does care. also, obviously i dont know every single emotion that my cousin went through but this guy is like my brotehr and best freind rolled into one and i have been there for him and he talks to me about it so yes to a certain extent i do understand.

also, u automatically assume that this poor guy is having the hardest time of anyone and yes im sure it is very hard for him, however ur saying that they should put up with him and support him. what im saying is that IT WORKS BOTH WAYS. he clearly doesnt care that his friend is having a hard time and it sounds as though he is being selfish. but at the end of the day we dont know the entire situation so its not possible to really judge. however i think ur responses were pretty harsh. the girl was looking for advice, not to be told she's a bad friend.

but then again everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
:cool:

Boston

Originally posted by peachypants
. however i think ur responses were pretty harsh. the girl was looking for advice, not to be told she's a bad friend.

More or less harsh then being told by someone that you confided in and trusted in that you're an asshole and to get over yourself. My problem is that I've been where she is more then one before, the thought of doing the above to someone I call a friend is unthinkable. But then again maybe the word has a different meaning to me then most. Maybe as a male I can put myself in there position and empathies with them. I've no problem with the girl, infact I think that if she has no interest in being there for the guy she should come out and say it.

Also I'm sure that he isn't having that tough a time with it, the problem however is that he feels he is. People's problems are all relative to themselves. What might be minor to some, would be huge to others. I know people whose life's stories would make you feel a shamed for ever tear you ever cried over a boy or every time you thought that it was all to much and you could go on, does that make your problems any less real or pressing?

Chinafoot

Originally posted by Boston
More or less harsh then being told by someone that you confided in and trusted in that you're an asshole and to get over yourself.

she never said that at all. she said he was being selfish. theres a difference.

Originally posted by Boston


I think that if she has no interest in being there for the guy she should come out and say it.

she didnt say that either. u are assuming a lot. there are limits to peoples patience.

Originally posted by Boston
does that make your problems any less real or pressing?

not at all.....but no matter how bad my problems get i find time to be there for my friends because i understand that, like u say, its all relative.

we'll have to agree to disagree here boston cos to be honest i think ur missing the point in what im saying and that probably is because u've been in his position. u seem to be seeing it only from ur side.

so lets call it a day. hopefully it'll all work out for her.

see ya

Boston

Originally posted by peachypants
she didnt say that either. u are assuming a lot. there are limits to peoples patience.

A friend would see it through to the end, what ever that may be. Just imagine this his confiding in her with something so scarry, so dangerous, so life altering, only to have her reject this. A knife in the back may be a kinder act. All she has to do is listen, is that so tough.

Originally posted by peachypants
we'll have to agree to disagree here boston cos to be honest i think ur missing the point in what im saying and that probably is because u've been in his position. u seem to be seeing it only from ur side.

see ya

actually no I haven't been in his position, what gave you that impression. I've been in her position though, thought the things she has thought, and then thought it was better just to sick with it, only to find out that the problems go allot deeper then I ever imagined. If he says that his problems are bigger then yours, maybe they are, if he says you wouldn't understand, maybe you wouldn't. Its not selfish to think like this, its human, and its abite self rightous to think just because you're able to handle it and put other first that anyone who can is being selfish.

LegacyUser

ok guys first of all i'd like to say thank you for all the responses it means a lot to me. just a few thing i have to clear up.

Originally posted by Boston
A friend would see it through to the end, what ever that may be. Just imagine this his confiding in her with something so scarry, so dangerous, so life altering, only to have her reject this. A knife in the back may be a kinder act. All she has to do is listen, is that so tough.

i think it is hard for people to judge when they dont know the entire situation. yes i agree that it is scary for him and life altering as you say Boston and that is why he knows that as his friends we are there for him. nobody makes a big deal about the fact that he is gay, apart from him. and yet at the same time he wants to be treated the same. we do treat him the same and yet every conversation is brought around to the fact that he is gay. i have no problem with listening to my friends when they have problems and i have listened and listened, i was afterall the only person who knew about it. however to answer your question Boston, YES at the moment it is tough to just listen. i told you that my other friend was having terrible problems. well he knows all about them and they are also scary and life-altering problems. and im not trying to belittle his problems but i think that this girl losing a family member to cancer is something that she will need ALL of her friends for. including him. or is she just a whinging female? and original drama queen?? or perhaps this is a case of "the crap in between that women think is important??" we all have stuff going on and i agree that everyones problems may seem huge to them and small to others. you do need to put things into perspective and he isnt.
i think that saying im stabbing him in the back is incredibly unfair. you automatically jump to his defence without knowing the full story. i honestly believe that if i posted this saying i was a bloke your responses would have been very different.

Originally posted by Clare h
Maybe he doesn't like it being an Issue, but if that's the case then he needs to stop with the "you wouldn't understand..." crap. He's not the first person to have gone through this, and it's downright arrogant of him to think that his problems with his sexuality merit him special treatment. While you should be supportive of your friends, you can only do that up to a point, and you shouldn't indulge his self-pitying complex. If he's belittling other people, that's not on, regardless of his own situation. He has absolutely no right to dismiss other people's issues like that.

i think you've hit the nail on the head here clare. since i posted this i have spoken to my other friends about it and they all feel exactly the same way. i dont think its so much about the fact that he's gay that he's acting like this. having spoken to a childhood friend of his over the weekend it seems as though he's just a very spoilt individual.

he is my friend and i will do my best to support him but its hard to do when im constantly being told how i wouldnt understand. i knwo people react in different ways but having been there for two other male friends when they came out, this guy is completely different. and before Boston jumps down my throat im in no way implying that everybody should act the same way when they come out nor am i suggesting that its easy. i think my friend just has a very dramatic personality and is very emotional. but i still believe that if you're going to be sensitive about ur own situation and expecting others to be teh same, then you also need to sensitive to the situations of those around you, otherwise you're just a hypocrite.

anyway, thank you all again for the advice and im sure it'll all be sorted over the summer.

bye

ixoy

Originally posted by Boston
A friend would see it through to the end, what ever that may be. Just imagine this his confiding in her with something so scarry, so dangerous, so life altering, only to have her reject this. A knife in the back may be a kinder act. All she has to do is listen, is that so tough.

Okay, steady on Boston. I thought the poster was pretty reasonable in her thinking. Goodness knows I'd never have expected, or desired, for my friends to make me the entire focus of all their sympathy. Yes the realisation is quite life altering, but so can many decisions be.

Its not selfish to think like this, its human, and its abite self rightous to think just because you're able to handle it and put other first that anyone who can is being selfish.

Not at all. The person in question sounds quite selfish to me. See the poster cares about more than the person coming out. This is caring about people who aren't them and thus, by definition, not selfish. This guy is only talking about himself and, despite being well aware of other people having serious problems, refuses to acknowledge that they might mean anything. Part of being a responsible adult - given that he's in college, he is an adult - is being aware that, on this earth, there are people who are not you. You should be able to treat them in a justifiably fair manner and, ideally, as you yourself would wish to be treated. If everyone adopted the "me me me" atittude, we'd have a very uncivil cold society.

i think my friend just has a very dramatic personality and is very emotional. but i still believe that if you're going to be sensitive about ur own situation and expecting others to be teh same, then you also need to sensitive to the situations of those around you, otherwise you're just a hypocrite.

Exactly. A hypocrisy that leads, in this case, to a brand of selfishness. I have never had time for those whose whole universe revolves around their own egos and/or appeasing themselves. Yes, we don't know the particulars of his coming out, but sheesh, he's getting support from his friends and there's no indication that there's any malignant influences on his life. I mean they offered to take him out and it seems he, in a tantrum, threw back the offer.

The only things that I can suggest is putting him into contact with a gay support group, such as the Gay and Lesbian Switchboard. Have you, for example, suggested he try and join the LGB society in college? There's also some interesting literature available about coping with coming out, including material for friends and families. If all that doesn't work, a serious bit of lip in his direction might.

Boston

Originally posted by píssed_off_girl
i think it is hard for people to judge when they dont know the entire situation. yes i agree that it is scary for him and life altering as you say Boston and that is why he knows that as his friends we are there for him. nobody makes a big deal about the fact that he is gay, apart from him. and yet at the same time he wants to be treated the same. we do treat him the same and yet every conversation is brought around to the fact that he is gay.

Sorry is this, not pretty much standard behavior for someone who has come out after a long time or repressing it? But up with it he'll grow out of it soon enough.

Originally posted by píssed_off_girl

well he knows all about them and they are also scary and life-altering problems. and im not trying to belittle his problems but I think that this girl losing a family member to cancer is something that she will need ALL of her friends for. including him. or is she just a whining female? and original drama queen?? or perhaps this is a case of "the crap in between that women think is important??" we all have stuff going on and I agree that everyone's problems may seem huge to them and small to others. you do need to put things into perspective and he isn't.

Two complete different issues, here, can't compare either. Are we going to get into a contest about who's had a rougher life and who deserves more sympathy and attention, because there's always someone having a harder time then you. As for putting things in perspective, that's abate hard for him at the moment. That real judge or weather or not the guy is an asshole, is if six months from now he regrets not seeing the problems around him.

Originally posted by píssed_off_girl
i think that saying im stabbing him in the back is incredibly unfair. you automatically jump to his defence without knowing the full story.

I based my opinions on one post, and my experience with what I would judge as normal behavior for dealing with such situations. I'm not saying the person isn't an asshole, I'm saying acting this way doesn't make him one, and being gay doesn't stop him from being one either.

Originally posted by píssed_off_girl

i honestly believe that if i posted this saying i was a bloke your responses would have been very different.

I think a bloke would have had more insight, weather they were willing to admit it or not, in his situations and would have never posted the threat in the first place. To be honest I think you're problem is you're trying to understand male sexuality and are frustrated that you "don't understand".

Goodness knows I'd never have expected, or desired, for my friends to make me the entire focus of all their sympathy.

Sympathy is very akin to pity, something I can't stomach. I would never insult a friend by pandering to their ego. Maybe the problem here is that this girl has allowed herself to become a shoulder to cry on, a beckon to listen to all his moaning, and its no wonder comes across as selfish. I'd always be there for friends but Christ I wouldn't be a receptor for crap and a dispenser of mindless pity. One has to wonder why he picked a female friend to confide in, when you have to admit you will never know what's its like, you can't. Maybe it was so he could use this excuse. I'm just throwing out idea's here, I don't think its simply a case of selfishness, fear is there somewhere as well.

Rock Climber

Originally posted by Boston
Sorry is this, not pretty much standard behavior for someone who has come out after a long time or repressing it? But up with it he'll grow out of it soon enough.

I agree, lifes not easy for gay people who aren't out.
The pressure is immense, but the relief in getting comfortable though hard to achieve is immense when it comes too.
Original poster, you have to weigh up what value you put on his friendship-don't let it go for the sake of another years patiece.
In the mean time construct situations where he can come out of himself a bit more.
I have a brilliant idea go on holidays with him, a change of scene this summer and let him get a taste of romance while he's ot there.
He'll come back a lot more confident.
Don't mention all the gay bars ye are going to visit untill you get there though

Chinafoot

boston your constant digs at females are hilarious.

can we drop this now?

Boston

Originally posted by peachypants
boston your constant digs at females are hilarious.

can we drop this now?

What are you talking about? You have no idea what it is like to be a male, in the same way I have no idea what it is like to be a female. Recognise your own limitations.

Chinafoot

holy jebus!!! i could go through all ur posts and pick out every dig u made but i seriously cant be bothered!!! so lets just leave it at that!

FINITO!

Boston

Originally posted by peachypants
holy jebus!!! i could go through all ur posts and pick out every dig u made but i seriously cant be bothered!!! so lets just leave it at that!

FINITO!

Please don't, I'm well aware of the comments I made, and I stand by them. If you wish to have a discussion with me then do so. This thread was finished before you found the desire to end it once again, and then again. You clearly have more you wish to say on the issue. If its an off topic disapproval of my approach in this thread then perhaps you would like to take it to Private message.