A64 or P4 - Advise me !!

CombatCow

Sorry for all the questions but it's time to update my rig again and im in two minds about what route to go down AMD/Intel

I really only use the pc for gaming,mp3's,movies(not encoding)l.Now iv herd that the A64's are better for games and the P4's are better for encoding/ripping and stuff like that,but i was thinking would a P3.2 GHz overclocked to say the 4ghz mark be better than a AMD A64 3200+ 2.0 GHz.

I was gonna keep my GFFX 5900 ultra for the time being because i dont think the cpu i have atm can keep up with it.(barton 2800+ )

Also are all P4's multiplier unlocked, or is that just "engineering samples"

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Heres the spec of the two machines i was thinking bout :

AMD Athlon 64 3200+ 2.0 GHz Socket 754, 1 MB cache, BOXED

Abit KV8-MAX3 Mainboard for Socket 754 K8T800, SATA, LAN, ATX, Raid, Firewire

Corsair TWINX1024-3200LL DDR-DIMM 1024MB Kit w/two matched CMX512-3200LL DIMMs

Two Samsung SpinPoint P80 160GB S-ATA 8MB cache 7200RPM

=====================================

Intel Pentium 4 3.2 GHz Boxed PC800 Socket PGA478, 512KB cache

Abit IC7-MAX3 Mainboard S478/800mhz,SATA I875P, ATX,GbLAN,Dual-DDR,Firewire,Raid

Corsair TWINX1024-3200LL DDR-DIMM 1024MB Kit w/two matched CMX512-3200LL DIMMs

Two Samsung SpinPoint P80 160GB S-ATA 8MB cache 7200RPM

^^ would i need better ram is if was gonna overclock the P4 to bout 4GHz ( watercooling )


Thanks for any info you can give.

CombatCow

bizmark

Why upgrade now instead of waiting for socket 939 ?

If it was me id go for the Amd 64 beast of a cpu great for games good for encodeing and antec review site seems to love it Mircosoft xp 64 will be out soon to take advanage of the Amd 64 + with the new Nforce chipsets out im sure it will overclock quite nicely.

Tis what will be powering my new pc coupled to 939 motherboard

BloodBath

Well the a64 is definately better for games. If you do decide to go the a64 route wait for the new mobos which will be dual channel ddr memory enabled and will be better for overclocking.

All P4's are multiplyer locked. Only the engineering samples are unlocked. There is no way of unlocking them either so overclocks are limited to fsb.

You will not get a 3.2 up to 4ghz without a vapochill or something similar.

On air you will get about 3.6-3.8 if your lucky.

At this stage I would get the a64 if I were you.


Do you really need to upgrade yet though? You still have a very decent processor.


BloodBath

CombatCow

O yeah i forgot to mention that,but do you think there will really be a huge differance, by switching sockets.As i said im prob keepin my old gfx card so im not bothered bout pci express atm.Any release date on the 939 boards or cpu's ?? The 754 cpu's wont work in 939 mobos i presume ??

Iv got a good watercooling rig here so u think i might get 3.8GHz on P4 ? and would it out perform a A64 2GHz chip

CombatCow

bizmark

.As i said im prob keepin my old gfx card so im not bothered bout pci express

That will be a handy thing about Pci express though the Pci express 6800 wont need 2 power connectors only one because of the extra power from the slot soooo when your upgradeing to a newer card that might be handy

The 754 cpu's wont work in 939 mobos i presume ??

No different number of pins :ninja: as far as i remember S 939 should be released in may ....

CombatCow

Originally posted by bizmark
No different number of pins :ninja:

uugh thought so,why did they evan bother with the 754 chips if there gonna be replaced in a few months time.:rolleyes:


**Thanks,think i can wait till may**

Anyone got suggestions for better ram.....actually will the socket 939 mobos support DDR2 ???

ComatCow

bizmark

Originally posted by Combatcow
uugh thought so,why did they evan bother with the 754 chips if there gonna be replaced in a few months time.:rolleyes:


ComatCow

Better than haveing 2 different sockets for the Fx chips.I dont think you will have a problem if you went for the 754 but it just wont be as future prove + you wont have the new technology on your board sure whats the harm in waiting for socket 939 your Pc is still high powered

Mutant_Fruit

Throw the watercooling kit on the AMD64 and you'll be able to overclock that nicely if you're lucky.

On a mhz to mhz basis, the AMD is ahead.

BloodBath

You will definately need to get better RAM if you want to overclock.

e.g. p4 3.2 (200fsb x 16multiplyer), pc3200 (200 x 2) = 400

You overclock to say 240fsb x 16 = 3.84ghz, pc3200 (240 x 2) = 480mhz

No pc3200 RAM I know of overclocks this high.

Get yourself pc 3700 which is 466mhz. If you get a good one it should overclcok to about 500mhz leaving you with pleanty of headroom.

Check to see if it overclocks well and the lower the timings the better.

I have pc4000 but it doesn't work at all with low timings. Standard timings for mine are 2.5, 7, 4, 4. Timings tend to get higher with faster RAM though. The higher fequency more than makes up for it though.


BloodBath

Col_Loki

The socket 754 will be the more budget side of the 64bit range and but will be kept till atleast 3800+ (prob more depending on sales).

The 939 is set to be a more expensive option especially when it first comes out. This is due to obviously new motherboards and the fact that AMD are only producing a small ammount of these to begin with (crazy if you ask me). Think the starting point will be a 2.2ghz 3500+ (extra 100+ for dual DDR feature). The newer motherboards should have a PCI and AGP lock which will be a huge advantage for overclocking, it has been the main problem when overclocking the AMD64's.

AMD64 has a newer Nforce chipset comming out (250) in under 2 months. It was suppose to be out now but its been delayed . If you want a decent overclock then you should wait for this board or get a much more future proof 939 socket.

Since your main performance factor will be gaming then i would think the AMD64 would be the way to go, especially with a decent motherboard and watercooling. Hold off for the 939 as the guys have said if you can.

Mutant_Fruit

Alternatively, just build a cheaper rig now, such as a 50eur mobo, and 70eur XP2500+, which you can then overclock to XP3200+ speeds VERY easily, with just FSB. Thats what i did, and that will tide me over until all these crazy socket changes finish up, and PCI-X comes out.

Col_Loki

Well hes got an Xp2800+ and a decent setup at the min so ............

Caliden

better off waiting till mobos with pci express come out, then buy your dream computer

Mutant_Fruit

oops, i thought he had a 1800+, i misread. If i had that setup i'd be more than happy to stick with that for at least another 6 months. That system is well fast enough, unless you really, really badly need the extra speed, which i doubt.

Civilian_Target

Yeah, are you mad or just overly rich. Wait until things start going obselete, and replace them. There's no need to do it any other way....

Col_Loki

Well TBH im thinkin the same way as combatcow, im dying to upgrade as it is myself. Am either going to make a totally silent rig or make an even more performance one.

Its hard for me to be behind the technology curve, i like trying new things and new overclocking methods . Im really beating myself to wait for 939 and 64bit AMD 90nm chips, and boy is it hard as its going to be Xmas at the very least. Im stressing my system as it is (with usage) and am getting annoyed with it, i really should have gone for a P4 but im way too much of an AMD man to change.

2.4ghz XP aint nothing these days, AMD64 and overclocked P4's are the things to have.......... god love my stupid stuborn side (or id have one of em at the min). Heres hoping i can hold out for the proper upgrade !!

Woden

the latest aopen board see review at www.anandtech.com for the socket 754 has a working agp/pci lock. they hit 350mhz fsb by lowering the multi right down but still giving an equivalent clock frequency.

just thought i'd mention it, i'd wait for socket 939 as well

data

CombatCow

Ok cheers lads,i may aswell wait for the A64 and new socket as you suggest.I suppose i wont need to get a new gfx card neway and i'll have the pci express feature when i do decide to upgrade it.I might try overclocking my system again...the last time one of my hdd's got corrupted because i pushed the fsb to high and i dont know if i can or how to activate the agp/pci lock on my mobo ( abit KD7 ) :rolleyes:


Thx,
CombatCow

Col_Loki

The Abit KD7 is a Kt400 chipset which doesent have a PCI / AGP lock, it uses dividers to decide the PCI and AGP speeds.

The Nforce2 chipsets have the locks, and thats why your harddisk is giving up .

CombatCow

A feck...right that would explain my hdd dying briefly.....ne way what fsb do you think i can get before my hdd gives up the ghost.....again.is it something like 175-180 before it starts to screw up ?

I think i had the fsb at 175 ( stop laughing ) and got a nice 30fps extra in ut2003 benchmark,aswell as a nice improvement 3DMark2001,cant remb the multiplier atm tho.

Thanks again.


CombatCow

Col_Loki

Right the divider you will be using is 5:2:1 (166mhz divider) . That would mean a standard 33mhz PCI (including hard drives) , and 66mhz AGP.

It really depends alot on the hard drive itself TBH. I would think up to 180mhz FSB should be ok (provided you use the right dividers ) as the hard disks would be running at 36mhz which isint that much of an increase and you would would be very unlucky to experience problems with it (although it is possible).

Im going on a poll i was reading about the MSI K7D (dual CPU mobo) which uses a 4:2:1 divider, and everyone said they didnt have any problems running at 145mhz FSB which is 36mhz PCI (actually i think only one person had a problem). Alot of people were fine with 150mhz FSB which is 37.5mhz PCI.
Its a risky thing as loosing all your info is such a pain. 175mhz FSB should be totally fine IMO.

What are the divider options on that board again? And whats the current setting? (i should remember as ive had this board before - :rolleyes: ).

CombatCow

sorry that this has turned into another n00b overclocking thread.But the default is FSB 166 / x12.5 and the diviver is 5-2-1

The other divider options are just 4-2-1 and 3-2-1.

I was looking at my ram settings and the default is 2.5-3-3.7 it gives me the option to knock them all down a notch ( by 1 ) do lower timings improve performance much without overclocking ? would i have to up the dram voltage is it's not stable when i drop the ram timings.

Your info is helpful COL,so i shal back up my important info and try again i think.

Ty,
CombatCow

Col_Loki

Sorry only back now........

the diviver is 5-2-1

Yea well thats ok , thought as much!!

I was looking at my ram settings and the default is 2.5-3-3.7 it gives me the option to knock them all down a notch ( by 1 ) do lower timings improve performance much without overclocking ?

Yea the lowerer the timings the more performance you will get from your memory. Depends on what ram you have, if its Pc2700 standard ram then i seriously doubt it will run at lower timings..... if its more expensive Pc3200 / Pc2700 then theres a better chance.

You would see more of a difference by upping the FSB, keep the CPU interface enables and ram 1:1.......... and poping the FSB to 175. Upping the Vdimm (ram voltage) might help you to get there, 2.8v and under is normally fine......... higher performance ram people go up to 3v and mabye more its really a personal choice.