Is Michael Jackson Innocent or not?

andrew12g

Now i know what most ppl think. because its the 2nd time hes been acused of it.but it doesnt take a f**ing geniuse to acuse sumone of doing something.

In 1993:

The kid kept changing his story
His father was looking for funding fora film project he was working on
The parents of the accuser stopped at money for justic. Now ask ureself this if ure child was suposidly mollested would u stop at money or would u see the b*****d fry for it?
While in Court the child told the story as if it were memorised.


The most recent allogations:

The parents and family of the accuser have said themselves that MJ is innocent.
The mother has spent time in a mental institute
She has a past history of falsly accusing people of things. including a securty gaurd of rape.
People who know the accuser have said ' the kid was streetwise, if Michael had have laid a hand on him he would have turned round nd punched him in the face'

please tell me wot u think!!

Is MJ Innocet or not?

lodgepole

Innocent until proven guilty, but even if he's guilty i'll still listen to his music which I enjoy immensely. Even if he raped my mother i'd still get down to Billie Jean.

Pigman II

Originally posted by Lodgepole
Even if he raped my mother i'd still get down to Billie Jean.

What if he raped your daughter?

lodgepole

Originally posted by Pigman II
What if he raped your daughter?

The recordings would still sound the same.

Pigman II

Originally posted by Lodgepole
The recordings would still sound the same.

What if you and your raped daughter were alone together in the same room and Billie Jean came on the radio?

Bard

What the heck has this got to do with music?

andrew12g

Well he's a musician aint he:D But the point is that he's innocent.

lodgepole

Originally posted by Bard
What the heck has this got to do with music?

Nothing, which is what my point was.

andrew12g

Then, Whats your favourite song by him?

quank

Methinks he's innocent. Don't really care that much though

Executive Steve

michael jackson is a nutcase who is always surprising me lisa marie? white children in jacko-burqha's? neverland? getting the 13 year old son of a prospective japanese business partrner drunk on red wine at a tokyo amusement park? wtf?????

it wouldnt surprise me at all if he was innocent, which proves he must be guilty.

WetDaddy

First of all, I really like a lot of his tunes. Mostly the older stuff, but that's really neither here nor there.

I probably need to think about it more, but my impression is this: The kids staying over, the Neverland stuff, the previous allegations, etc. all make him a PRIME CANDIDATE for child abuse accusations.

I believe his motives were entirely innocent, but I also believe that sleeping in the same bed as kids who aren't his own is just a bad idea. He should have known how bad it looks. No matter how often he preaches the innocence of the whole situation, it still looks bad and he should have realised that.

If I was a celebrity, I wouldn't (and it's time for one of Seán's classic, odd examples), say, stand outside a Nazi Meeting because I admire the graphic design of their posters. Even if I LOVE the graphic design, I'd still have the cop on NOT to want to be associated with Nazis.

Also, I think because he didn't exactly have a normal childhood himself, maybe there's a part of him trying to relive it or at least make sure other kids have an enjoyable childhood.

My end verdict: Innocent until proven guilty, but he should really have known what people would suspect.

Pigman II

Originally posted by Lodgepole
Nothing, which is what my point was.

So you'd still get up and boogie to the sounds of Jackson singing 'Billie Jean, is not my lover!' even tho your raped daughter is sitting right beside you and is now in fit of tears due to his tune reminding her of her ordeal at the his hands?

WetDaddy

Jaysus Pigman II, give it a rest.

You can't compare a person's admiration for a piece of music to their respect / love for their hypothetically raped daughter.

Any other fantastical comparisons you want to present to us? Like: "So, if Michael Jackson said he'd do a personal concert for you but only if he can stab your family to death with a biro as the encore, would you do it?"

Grrrr... Ludicrous arguments like yours make me angry. If you feel so strongly about the accusations, then articulate your debate. Don't try to extract the answer you want to hear by citing illogical situations.

Pigman II

Originally posted by deathfunk
You can't compare a person's admiration for a piece of music to their respect / love for their hypothetically raped daughter.

Not comparing just suggesting that (unlike Lodgepoles claim ie 'Even if he raped my mother i'd still get down to Billie Jean') personal intrusion will influence ones negative opinion of the perpetrator and their art. It's flippant to claim otherwise.

Originally posted by deathfunk
Grrrr... Ludicrous arguments like yours make me angry. If you feel so strongly about the accusations, then articulate your debate. Don't try to extract the answer you want to hear by citing illogical situations.

And how angry would you feel if Jackson raped your daughter, your son (or even your mother)? And would you honestly admire a piece of his music as much after the fact as you did before?

lodgepole

Originally posted by Pigman II
So you'd still get up and boogie to the sounds of Jackson singing 'Billie Jean, is not my lover!' even tho your raped daughter is sitting right beside you and is now in fit of tears due to his tune reminding her of her ordeal at the his hands?

Well its incredibly hypothetical but I probably wouldn't throw on a Jackson CD with my freshly raped daughter sitting beside me, but I personally have no doubt that the music would sound exactly the same and that I would still find it enjoyable to listen to.

My original hypothetical was an extreme to make a point. A point that wasn't directed at the original poster, but was in general given that a lot of people move to bad mouth art when the artist does (or is accused of) something terrible.

lodgepole

....

begbie

Gulity! Come on people. He had hidden video tapes. Why hide these tapes unless they hold incrimating evidence.

lodgepole

Originally posted by begbie
Gulity! Come on people. He had hidden video tapes. Why hide these tapes unless they hold incrimating evidence.

Did you see them?

begbie

No, but why should he hide them. He should have nothing to hide if he's innocent. I'd like to believe he's innocent. I nearly do, cause people probably just wanna get easy money by suing him.

Velvet Vocals

Kiddie-Fiddler or not he has done something dogie... the sleeping in the same bed bit... the getting a 15-year-old kid drunk... the hidden tapes. No matter what way you look at it he's done something wrong, Might not be paedophilia wrong, but fu*ked up none the less.
I feel really sorry for him in one way, his difficult up bringing and never having a childhood and his father being abusive. But if it was proven that he did molest kids you'd have to stop listening to his music... or at least not pay for it (who pays for music now anyway I know). But my point is that if someone has really done something so terrible I don't think I could support them in their chosen field... i.e. I wouldn't buy his albums

I think to be able to say that you'd still get down to a Billie Jean if MJ had rapped your mother.... Takes a certain kind of person. Maybe you need to think about it a bit longer.... and then decide if you still would enjoy listening to it.

begbie

I agree with your views. I never bought his music anyway.:D

But yet, he may not have actually abused any kids, but the whole hanging with them ands stuff and the way he treats his kids is just weird. Its all probably due to his screwed up upbringing.

Velvet Vocals

cheers for that begbie... yea I'd forgotten about his own kids...
having the scarves over their heads and hanging the baby out the window.... NUTS!

Doctor J

He's a freaky bastid, and by freaky I don't mean good freaky, I mean bad freaky, and not bad as in good, like proper bad, like Hitler.

I feel sorry for him, tbh. Just another mentally unstable lad, not quite equipped to deal with the real world.

Kalina

I think he's weird, and it's a tragedy how he's changed so much since the early 90's. His music career is gone down the tubes (if the sales of Invincible are anything to go by) and nobody takes him seriously.
He could well be guilty of the charges, we all saw how strange his views are on the kids staying over in his house (though some of that was Martin Bashir twisting statements that Jackson said). Innocent until proven guilty, and if he is proven innocent I think he should retire from show-business and live out his life out of the limelight. I heard reports that his fortune is long spent but I'm sure if he tightened his belt a bit and maybe sold off the ranch he could live well for the rest of his life

WetDaddy

Nice Dr. J, that pretty much sums it up.

Don't think I could put it any better than that. Or with less commas.

andrew12g

Invincible sold over a million copys which is what most recording artists could ever hope for. the only way it was not a sucess was when compared to Thriller which is now up at around 62million copys sold. And also he is estimated to be worth 500 million still today. those storys of him goin bankrupt are just rhoumours.

Kalina

Originally posted by andrew12g
Invincible sold over a million copys which is what most recording artists could ever hope for. the only way it was not a sucess was when compared to Thriller which is now up at around 62million copys sold. And also he is estimated to be worth 500 million still today. those storys of him goin bankrupt are just rhoumours.

Yeah, maybe. I just saw a whole shelf-load of copies of Invincible in a record store for €5 not long after it was released. Thought it was kinda sad considering how massively popular Michael Jackson once was.

andrew12g

Yeah, that album did terrible compared to all of the others. However Number Ones was quite sucessfull aparently its at over 3 million so far. but its now a days harder to get record sales as high as they would have been back in the day because of people downloading and copying music. and iid say Number ones would have done better if it hadnt have come out one day before the allogations and also if that martin bashir interview hadnt have been shown.

alb

hey what do ya'll think I had for breakfast this morning, because you're about as likely to know that for sure as whether some guy you never met half way across the world is innocent or guilty of something.

Most pointless thread ever

Kalina

Originally posted by alb
hey what do ya'll think I had for breakfast this morning, because you're about as likely to know that for sure as whether some guy you never met half way across the world is innocent or guilty of something.

Most pointless thread ever

Maybe, maybe, alb. Kinda the same as wondering did Bill Clinton actually have "sexual relations" with Monica Lewinski, he's a guy half way across the world too who we've never met but the world almost ground to a halt when that whole scandal came out. There are a lot of different opinions about Michael Jackson, some people are fanatical about him so it's bound to cause huge interest.
And Andrew, you're right that album sales are lower than maybe 10 years ago. CDs are too bloody expensive anyway. But the point is if Michael still had legions of die hard fans they would go out and buy the album to have in their collection. When Invincible was released they had different coloured copies in the hopes that fans would buy the whole set!! That flopped in a massive way!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

projectmayhem

Originally posted by Kalina
Maybe, maybe, alb. Kinda the same as wondering did Bill Clinton actually have "sexual relations" with Monica Lewinski, he's a guy half way across the world too who we've never met but the world almost ground to a halt when that whole scandal came out. There are a lot of different opinions about Michael Jackson, some people are fanatical about him so it's bound to cause huge interest.
And Andrew, you're right that album sales are lower than maybe 10 years ago. CDs are too bloody expensive anyway. But the point is if Michael still had legions of die hard fans they would go out and buy the album to have in their collection. When Invincible was released they had different coloured copies in the hopes that fans would buy the whole set!! That flopped in a massive way!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

bill clinton was a world leader, not a ****ty pop star.. and clinton's crime, wether he did it or not, wasn't involving little kids. album sales are not down in general... but quality is. jackson never made a great album, he was just a great performer.. his sales are down because he's a pretentious asshole now who charges $2000 to see him perform... with a meal.

if any musical artist i idolised hung his/her kid out a window 3 or 4 stories high with a blanket over their head i'd immediately disassociate myself with them.

lodgepole

Originally posted by projectmayhem
jackson never made a great album, he was just a great performer..

Have you heard Thriller, Bad or Dangerous? They are three ridiculously good albums.

Paddy20

There are a lot of very strange people in the USA. It truly is imo a country beyond redemption. Michael Jackson is I believe another prime target for this type of false accusation.

P.

Doctor J

Originally posted by deathfunk
Nice Dr. J, that pretty much sums it up.

Don't think I could put it any better than that. Or with less commas.

I wanted to be clear there

projectmayhem

Originally posted by Lodgepole
Have you heard Thriller, Bad or Dangerous? They are three ridiculously good albums.

i have but don't think they're as brilliant as you do obviously...there's a few good songs on each.. but that's all

Doctor J

Bad and Dangerous are average at best, Thriller and Off The Wall kick big ass though. Big Ass.

andrew12g

Originally posted by projectmayhem
jackson never made a great album, he was just a great performer...

Is that why thriller is still the biggest selling album ever at 60 million copies+? At the height of his career he was wort an estimated $2 billion

Kalina

Originally posted by projectmayhem
bill clinton was a world leader, not a ****ty pop star.. and clinton's crime, wether he did it or not, wasn't involving little kids.

I wasn't trying to compare the two situations closely, just saying that both men are famous people who we'll never know in person but both cases are and were under scrutiny from the whole world.

Kopf

I'd say he's guilty, but just as guilty are the parents of the children who let their child stay at the ****'s house.

His music sucks so I couldn't give a sh!te what happens to him.

begbie

Yeah, the parents are just as much to blame for letting them into his care.

andrew12g

You say that as if you knew he was guilty. Why dont you think of how many millions of dollars a year he donates to charity?. and how many little children he has saved with his money. I'd have no problem letting my kids go to neverland because im convinced that it is the D.A behind all of thisand that MJ is innocent.