Super hero comics arent real

Neil Cat.

Firstly i dont hate super hero comics i just find them superficial (no pune intended) at times. The comics i read are from DC Vertigo and i dont mean that Vertigo comics are all based in reality some are in the future some in fairty-tale land but the characters, and the societies and some story lines are more based in our reality. They have few superman characters where they have super human strong, always has to do the right thing and lives in a world where the only thing wrong is the bad guy with the umbrellas.

For example the series i am reading now Transmetropolition has some of the best characters i have ever seen and an excellent story line to boot. The main character one Spider Jerusalem is a journalist trying to get the American president (a president who doesnt represent the majority of the people not unlike Bush) out of office.Small communities who live or look different are pushed to the side by the government and the shunned by the lager population all because they want equal rights. Spider kills and does an unbelievable amount of drugs and lives in a city of crime, sex and corrupt cops. Sound familiar to any one?

In Preacher (if you dont know) is about a Chaplain (of all the people the writers could have chosen they chose a a man of God) who saves the world in all the wrong ways, one of its character is an Irish vampire (they always did say they came from Ireland) is an acholic(ok a small sterotype) and gets into trouble because of it. Also the vampire has an affair with preachers girl, you wouldnt find Louis Lane doing that with some one else from the Daily Planet.

I feel more poeple can identify with these types of characters and societies, im not saying everyone kills people, does drugs or drinks that little to much at Christmas but these characters i believe represent our society.

Sorry about the length i tend to ramble on and if you dont agree with me its only my opinion

simu

Aye, it's silly that many people think comics have to be about superheroes when, in fact, they can deal with topics and characters as diverse as other media!

Kold

Aye graphic novels are all very well but I think that they tend to concentrate a lot on the story side whereas my love for comics has always stemmed from the aesthetics. I think superhero comics tend to have far prettier artwork.

Fysh

I have to disagree. Superhero comics have no intrinsic claim to aesthetic superiority over graphic novels or any other kind of comic - the only limit on the artwork is the artist's ability and the amount of time and effort they wish to invest in it.

As far as I'm concerned the difference between graphic novels and superhero comics is similar to the difference between a well-written novel and a Tom Clancy book (for want of a better example), and is chiefly concerned with storyline and characters.

Sandman, Transmetropolitan, Calvin and Hobbes, American Splendor, Lazarus Churchyard, Judge Dredd/2000AD...all of these contain examples of artwork every bit as good as (or better than, in several cases) the art in any superhero book available. The difference is that they tend to complement it with characters who have depths and an engaging storyline.

Kold

I can't say I'm a fan of the artwork in any on those... Although Calvin's snowmen rock

simu

Give some examples of artwork you like (with links if possible), Kold!

I'm more of Fysh's opinion as well but I'm curious to see what kind of artwork you prefer!

Neil Cat.

I think that they tend to concentrate a lot on the story side whereas my love for comics has always stemmed from the aesthetics. I think superhero comics tend to have far prettier artwork.

If you dont want a story line and prefer the artwork then prehaps try the National Art Gallery (only joking).

I have in front of me a copy of my favourite issue of Transmetro the drawings are really detailed almost to detailed when it comes to a guys face been kicked in. The artists may use some computer graphics to help (which some may think is cheating i dont if it means it is more realistic) because some of the work is so good it cant be done by hand. The penciller is darick Robertson and inker Rodney Ramos.

On another note Calvin and Hobbes comics are the best comics, ive been reading them since i was 10 about 9 years ago. And i still havent found out what the Noodle Incident was all about??? Any one have a clue??

Neil Cat.

--Deleted due to duplicate post--

Fysh

There's a comment in the 10th Anniversary book about the Noodle incident. Aparently he's never given any detail about what happened, preferring to leave it to the readers to invent...and I have to say, given what calvin gets up to it's almost scary to imagine....

the raven

the best "superhero" book i've read in ages that i'm sure you'd all enjoy for plot/character/story/blaa blaa blaa, or aesthetic/pretty pictures purposes is: automatic kafka. no nothing to do with the original Kafka (but if you know your stuff you might notice a few homages...) but is an excellent statement overall on the farce that is the comics industry. its printed by wildstorm. i urge you all to read this book.

actually, a thought just occured to me there... no offense or nuthin but i'v found that some people who aren't as fluent in the language of comic universes don't appreciate its witty cynicism, sardonic statements, and the whole satire thing. maybe "appreciate" is the wrong word.

let the argument continue!

darkened_corner

Ah the wondrous Noodle Incident! I'd also love to have an actual copy of "Hamster Huey and the Gooey Kablooie" with instructions on the Happy Hamster Hop.

As for superhero comics being crap, I must disagree. Although with the story vs art argument, I lean on the side of the story myself. With many superhero comics (The Authority, Planetary, New and/or Ultimate X-Men), the comic requires a certain visual style otherwise it would be pointless. The Authority is one example. I don't know many artists who could draw a realistic metallic skin for the Engineer by hand at all, never mind repeatedly.

At the far end of the scale, one of my favourite comics for its artwork is Kabuki. The entire thing is done in black and white, just pen on paper, and it's absolutely fantastic. It also has one of the best non-superhero, near-future storylines ever, if you see it then check it out.

TheSonOfBattles

I find that comics, like any other medium, have many differant genre's. You have:

• Superhero Comics e.g. X-Men, Batman and Spawn
• Daily Funnies e.g. The Far Side, Calvin and Hobbes, Ctrl-Alt-Delete
• Adult Comics e.g. Preacher, Y - The Last Man, Transmetropolitan

There's prolly others I can't think of as well, but personally I like all of them, and find each of them has examples of sheer brilliance in terms of both art and storytelling. I don't limit myself to one, I enjoy all, and am happier because of it.

Fysh

I try not to limit myself with comics either, in the same way as I wouldn't limit myself with books, music, or film.

The problem is that most superhero books have gone the way of chart music, bestseller book lists, or blockbuster movies.

Which means, the same bloody thing again and again, because Christ forbid any originality creep in. I know that Authority, Planetary and stuff like that is trying to change this, but the majority of superhero stuff can still be adequately described as plot-thin stories about power fantasies.

Aside from which is the fact that the obsession with guaranteed sales that go with a known name leads to heroes like Batman having several shelves worth of books. You can try and tell me that the entire continuity tells a really good story and develops character, or you can try and say that parts of it work by themselves.

But you're not going to convince me that the entire Batman back catalogue is worth having, unless your values boil down to "man in fancy dress kicking ass". Which, yes, is fun for a while. But certainly not for the nearly 100 books I've seen on him. When you then account for all the superheroes around and the relatively limited number of plot and character options available, you end up talking about a *lot* of repetition.

jill_valentine

Superhero comics do tend to have the upper hand aesthetically because the premise tends to lend itself to more extreme visuals. By and large I prefer horror, because you have the best of both worlds.

Fysh

See, I disagree about the visuals. I think it's more a case of having to work ten times harder on refining the aesthetics because the stories tend to be weak. I mean, I used to read Iron Man (and, when they were involved, a few peripheral books as well) regularly for some time and I was keen on the look of everything, but I noticed that some artists are overly stylised - Stan Lee even gleefully states that this is part of the Marvel way in "How to draw comics the marvel way". Apparently the point is not to have realistic-looking individuals, but instead to have certain "acceptable" exaggerated versions. Now, I'm all for this when it's done well (for example in 100 Bullets) but superhero books have an aggravating tendency of making the men either big and brawny or simply tall and athletic, and the women as a rule look rather more like supermodels than is really necessary. And that's without mentioning the inexplicable tendency for them to wear skintight outfits where these offer no discernible advantage.

I've been thinking over this again recently, and it baffles me that, while superhero comics really only an obsession in America, here in Ireland we've pretty much followed suit. European comics have a lot more variety going on (and i'm quite pleased to see that there's a good few of them stocked in the Cork City library comic section). Anyone interested in this sort of stuff should keep an eye out for Metal Hurlant, a bimonthly magazine about comics which features short comic stories as well as reviews and columns...I've seen it stocked in Other Realms in cork, but I have no idea if other places stock it. Definitely worth a look.

jill_valentine

The market Marvel aim for, by and large, are looking for some form of escapism, at least by the sound of Stan Lee. The exagerrated heroes are all part of that. Different strokes for different folks, I guess. there was a time when Marvel had both the visuals and the storytelling, but I wonder if its passed...Lately they seem to be that little bit overstylised without good enough writing to justify it.

What I mean by superhero comics having the aesthetic edge is that, from a purely visual point of view, a plasma blast is always going to look a little more impressive than a gunshot simply because its something we don't see very often in the real world.