Decoy no. 104765 - our smoking ban.

Archvillain

Ahhh I love Ireland. I'm a ferocious smoker of many a year but I can not fail to wet myself laughing hysterically at the idiocy over this smoking ban. How ignorant we all are.
Look at what was going on in our happy tribunals while we were all ****-talking. Look at the environment being ruined by the day. look at the use of Shannon to murder Iraqis needlesly. Look at any corruption case in the last 5 years, almost all unresolved. Look at the bombast of simpleton politicians who roar passionately at one another over this non-topic.
OF which I will speak... no... more.

huh? Um, I'm a smoker and I've been seeing this ban coming for about a decade. I don't see it as a decoy, but rather as a victory for non-smokers. <shrugs> As for the rest, all you're pointing out is that Irish politics is full of crap. Was there anything else?

Cork

The smoking is a health measure welcomed by many workers in this country.

It is progressive that we are the first country in the EU to introduce such legalislation.

Manach

On one hand, It is an intrustive measure designed to Nanny the Irish public
- still, it is quite welcome as pubs now are not so dingy with smoke and butts.

The ban is working; unlike the tribunals which seem only to exist to enrich solicitors.

Typedef

The smoking ban is one of the few facets of government that can be held up in this country as completely within the public's interest.

True you could say that Minister Martin 'had' to be seen to be doing something radical to address the nation's health, what with the post election scandals surrounding the health service.

Whatever the reasoning, the end justifies the means. Smoking, Cancer, binge drinking, alocholism, rape all these will be diminished by the smoking ban. Before I get quoted out of context saying that. Smoking encourages people to drink, indeed the two are within pubs, habits which are closely associated, at least, in my contention.

Ergo reduce the level of smoking and not only to you reduce all the bad health effects that smoking causes, you break the cycle of people who smoke only when they drink, and where both habits feed each other.

Sure smoker (x) might give annecdotal evidence as to how 'they' drink more when not smoking, but, I think that in an environment where smoking is restricted to leaving the building, that at a subliminal level this will discourage people from being so flagrant in their self disregard when enjoying a night out.

So, it follows, less smoking means probably less drinking, thus, less alocholism, less date rape, less assult, less Cancer, smaller health bills to clean all that up.

I think the government or rather the Minister, in this instance has show real metal and has acted as a government should, decisively to enhance the lives of it's citizens.

One might argue that the State forbidding you shooting chemical (x) into your viens is 'Nanny state', but, the simple fact is that the legislature is elected 'to make those calls', to make the call on what is and isn't acceptable behaviour, to legislate and act as an executive for the general wish of the people, implied or not.

In many ways such an executive is disfunctional, through, power hungry politicians, the government misrepresenting it's people, through powerful lobby groups and so on.

In this instance, however the government has in my opinion, shown itself to be reasonably useful for the purposes it exists for, outlined above.

To be honest if Minister Martin has the metal to force through this measure, in the face of very powerful lobbies to the contrary, I think it places him as perhaps the sucessor to Bertie Ahern, where Charlie McCreevy is the other player in town.

The roads my be a disgrace, the proposed Constitutional ammendament an abrogation of Irish civil rights, the recoil at the Nice treaty a draconian tool of supression, but, on this count the government has, in my opinion, got it right and I congratulate it for that.

AngelofFire

The smoking ban is an act of blatant hypocracy on behalf of the government imo. they claim to care about irish peoples health yet they did not deliver on their promise to end all hospital waiting lists by now.

they dont really care about our health if they did they would run the health service properly. the smoking ban is just a lazy form of governing, an attempt to divert peoples attention from real health issues. ie The long waiting lists in hospitals, shortages of beds, the fact that ireland still has the lowest number of doctors per 10,000 population in the EU,

Yes the government are deeply concerned about the health of irish people:rolleyes:

Memnoch

Angeloffire - all you said is true, however that still doesn't diminish the importance of the smoking ban, not change the fact that it is a piece of important, progressive legislation that will pave the way to better health for all Irish.

Mighty_Mouse

How is the Smoking Ban linked to corruption or under-funding? Could we not implement a ban on plastic bags unless we reduced our pollution levels?

Meh

Originally posted by AngelofFire
ireland still has the lowest number of doctors per 10,000 population in the EU

http://www.nationmaster.com/red/graph-T/hea_doc&int=-1

Definition: Doctors per 1000 people (1999)
...
23. Ireland 2.3
...
26. United Kingdom 1.8

Gurgle

Don't you understand it ?

Now we're prevented from the dangers of passive smoking, we don't need doctors anymore.

We're all going to live forever, as we would always have done if we hadn't taken up smoking in the first place.

St. Patrick would still be alive today but he died due to a passive smoking related illness.

The most talked about piece of legislation of the last year, cost nothing to research, study, implement or enforce. What could be a better decoy.

The real question is:

What are we being distracted from ?

ixoy

So because the smoking ban doesn't solve every problem in the health service, it shouldn't be implemented?
Maybe we shouldn't enact any new legislation because - hey! - it's not dealing with the real problem, which is clearly X. With this questionable line of thinking, we'd just constantly enter a period of stagnant progression because we'd constantly refute any change because it's not the ultimate one that we seek. And I think everyone still knows about hospital beds so it's hardly a decoy...

Archvillain

Actually I don't have all that much against the smoking ban. That's not why I started this. I just have something against the way it's being used.
I lived a long time in Italy. You can't smoke in public places there, nor in places of business, cinemas, busses, trains, taxis, planes, cafes, restaurants and most bars. The difference is that no one there goes parading it around draped in triumphalism, whipping up PR like you wouldn't believe and inviting the worlds press to witness the hallowed occassion.
Wasn't there a tribunal happening at the same time, incidentally. And wasn't our taoiseach in the stand, giving account of his involvement in misdeeds. Ah sweet coincidence....

ixoy

Originally posted by Archvillain
The difference is that no one there goes parading it around draped in triumphalism, whipping up PR like you wouldn't believe and inviting the worlds press to witness the hallowed occassion.

Ah but this was a first, so of course it's significant. We're the only country to have a complete workplace ban in the world. I think it's worthy of mention. Also it's a reasonable culture shift (or perceived one) from Ireland's traditional smoky bar one. That'd interest the world's media, as well as those countries looking at implementing similiar measures.

Wasn't there a tribunal happening at the same time, incidentally. And wasn't our taoiseach in the stand, giving account of his involvement in misdeeds. Ah sweet coincidence....

Well the smoking ban took place over a number of months, so it's probably a coincidence. And aren't politicians constantly on the stand anyway...

Victor

Originally posted by ixoy
We're the only country to have a complete workplace ban in the world.

It's not absolutely complete, some specific areas aren't covered by the ban.

Moriarty

Would the people here complaining about the health service (for right or wrong) be the very same people who would fight tooth and nail for a state of the art hospital in every back-arsed town across the country (eg. the hanley report)?

Memnoch

Originally posted by Moriarty
Would the people here complaining about the health service (for right or wrong) be the very same people who would fight tooth and nail for a state of the art hospital in every back-arsed town across the country (eg. the hanley report)?

we don't need a state of the art hospital everywhere, but you need basic emergency fascilities at the very least. 35 minutes to get to the "Nearest" hospital is NOT good enough for someoen who has an MI.

I support the smoking ban, but I don't support the government's stand on hospitals. If the government spent less money giving itself raises and buying limosines and what not for themselves we could probably afford an extra hospital or two. What about the stupid metal tower and the reconstruction of O' Connel street. More money that could be well spent on a hospital. The list goes on... at the end of the day its all about priorities, and the Irish Govt. clearly has its priorities in the wrong place, or well in the right place for them, but not for the average person on the street.

Emboss

a big smoke screen so people might not notice the state of our hospitals and schools and education system.

eh go the goverment!

or something.........

Moriarty

Originally posted by Memnoch
we don't need a state of the art hospital everywhere, but you need basic emergency fascilities at the very least. 35 minutes to get to the "Nearest" hospital is NOT good enough for someoen who has an MI.

Wasn't the Hanley report authored by the health boards and an expert panal? Surely they know what they're talking about?

They're saying that having full emergency care in local hospitals simply isn't sustainable. When the government then tries to implement the recomendations of the report, people out the country are up in arms. These same people will then complain when they aren't recieving adequete care and how the health service is in a state and the governments doing nothing about it. The mind boggles.

Originally posted by Memnoch
If the government spent less money giving itself raises and buying limosines and what not for themselves we could probably afford an extra hospital or two. What about the stupid metal tower and the reconstruction of O' Connel street. More money that could be well spent on a hospital. The list goes on... at the end of the day its all about priorities, and the Irish Govt. clearly has its priorities in the wrong place, or well in the right place for them, but not for the average person on the street.

If the government spent less on the roads, the arts, social programs, general infrastructural programs or capital expenditure in general we'd have loads more money to put into hospitals. At the end of the day, a third of all the money that the government has to play with goes directly into health. Throwing more money at the problem quite clearly hasn't worked in solving the problem. Saying that putting in 'just a bit more' will magically solve the problem is akin to asking the little dutch boy to plug a burst dam with his fingers.

Gurgle

Would the people here complaining about the health service (for right or wrong) be the very same people who would fight tooth and nail for a state of the art hospital in every back-arsed town across the country (eg. the hanley report)?

Em....
yes.

I'm a smoker and I actually support the smoking ban.
I have no objection to having to go outside for a smoke, its the huge fuss they make of it - it cost nothing to do (like QBCs) and they're dislocating their shoulders to pat themselves on the back.

I would object to bleeding to death on the 45 minute trip to somewhere where they can stich me up. I probably wouldn't object very loudly as I'd be busy bleeding to death.

Anyhow, a surgical needle & thread is not state of the art - its pretty basic really, though I don't claim to be an expert on medical practise or equipment.