Gross Misconduct Charge

Silent Assasin

I work as a Technician in a large Manufacturing plant for one of the big Multinationals and this is happening...Basically me and my colleagues while we are not busy are being asked to go and support other areas of the plant...

Sometime's this may be something Interesting, An Enginerring project or something along them lines which nobody would mind doing. But now they are asking us to go Pack and Unpack boxes for a couple of weeks to save money as they wouldnt need any Operators

Now I know this may sound trivial but to me Its not as next qtr we would have to go for 3 weeks and so on...

So 3 of my colleagues has refused to go and now they are all being charged with gross misconduct, for Disobeying an Order..

Do people think this is fair or should they Go and Pack the Boxes or what

Also do we have to do it, Theres nothing in our contract and its definitely not in our Job Description..

Thanks

seamus

Originally posted by Silent Assasin
So 3 of my colleagues has refused to go and now they are all being charged with gross misconduct, for Disobeying an Order..

It's hardly gross misconduct to object to doing something that you weren't hired to do.

Also do we have to do it, Theres nothing in our contract and its definitely not in our Job Description..

If there's nothing in your contract that says you don't have to do anything that's not in your job description, then, tough really.
However, if you are consistently having to do work that you weren't hired for, so much so that you have to find a new job (to do the actual work you want to do), then you probably have grounds for constructive dismissal.

My advice would be to do the work, but file a stern complaint as high as you can go, outlining your greivance, and making it perfectly clear that if it continues you will be forced to leave, and may take legal action for constructive dismissal.

ThreadKiller

Check your contract for a clause that states "any other duties" (or similiar worded)... If that's there, they're completely within their rights.

Silent Assasin

Check your contract for a clause that states "any other duties" (or similiar worded)... If that's there, they're completely within their rights.

Yea id imagine that would be in most standard contracts wouldnt it ?

But even if we do object to it, Its hardly Gross Misconduct is it ?

Emboss

Originally posted by Silent Assasin
Yea id imagine that would be in most standard contracts wouldnt it ?

But even if we do object to it, Its hardly Gross Misconduct is it ?

You're refusing to work,

What would you call it?

Silent Assasin

We are not refusing to work, We are just refusing to carry out menial Duties that we were not employed to do.

If the Management asked us to clean the toilets would we have to do that ?

Emboss

Originally posted by Silent Assasin
We are not refusing to work, We are just refusing to carry out menial Duties that we were not employed to do.

If the Management asked us to clean the toilets would we have to do that ?

It doesn't matter what way you put it.
If the contract supports what they're asking then you're refusing to work.

I know if i was asked to clean toilets i'd use the person as a toilet brush.

Silent Assasin

It doesn't matter what way you put it. If the contract supports what they're asking then you're refusing to work.

I know if i was asked to clean toilets i'd use the person as a toilet brush.

Fair Point, Im going to check the contract again..Otherwise its pack the boxes or topjobs.ie is my only saviour...

ThreadKiller

If the contract states AOD then you're obliged to do it, by not doing it you're refusing to work & guilty of gross misconduct. However, they can't touch your salary.

There was a case in the 90s of a Dunnes Manager who they wanted to get rid of, so they took his management position away & put him on floor duties (ie sweeping up) in the same store he used to manage... What they couldn't do was adjust his salary accordingly. He stayed over two years as a floor sweeper on £25,000 a year until they bought him out of his contract.

His attitude was he has less hassle, less hours, no paperwork & more free time...

seamus

Most contracts would say "any other duties as may be required from time to time". So if that's what is in your contract, my position still stands - do the work, and make a formal complaint. If this monkey work persists (i.e. more regularly than just "from time to time", it's essentially breaking your contract, and you have grounds for a greivance.

leeroybrown

However, if you are consistently having to do work that you weren't hired for, so much so that you have to find a new job (to do the actual work you want to do), then you probably have grounds for constructive dismissal.

While constructive dismissals sound like a nice idea in theory, generally they end up being a very difficult prospect in practice. They place a very large onus of proof on the employee and are quite difficult to resolve successfully.

MisterAnarchy

Gross Misconduct is related to the following:

(a) Theft or other act of dishonesty
(b) Assault
(c) Deliberate falsification, removal or destruction of documents which term shall include, but not be limited to, paper records, any information or data kept on computer disks and any other form of record
(d Being unduly under the influence of alcohol in the course of one’s work
(e)Being under the influence of illegal drugs or substances in the course of one's work
(f)Having illegal drugs, substances or materials on one's person or in one’s possession, custody or control on company premises, except in cases where for research purposes permission has been granted to hold such material
(g)Aiding others in dishonest conduct either before or after the event
(h)Misapplication or misappropriation of company equipment and/or property
(i) Harassment, including sexual harassment, and intimidation.

Dont think any of these apply to you.

gmt

Go and talk to a solicitor to be sure. You usually get the first consultation for free anyways soyou have nothing to lose.

Silent Assasin

Thanks for the Advice Guys, Ill let you know how we get on.

Emboss

Originally posted by MisterAnarchy
Gross Misconduct is related to the following:

(a) Theft or other act of dishonesty
(b) Assault
(c) Deliberate falsification, removal or destruction of documents which term shall include, but not be limited to, paper records, any information or data kept on computer disks and any other form of record
(d Being unduly under the influence of alcohol in the course of one’s work
(e)Being under the influence of illegal drugs or substances in the course of one's work
(f)Having illegal drugs, substances or materials on one's person or in one’s possession, custody or control on company premises, except in cases where for research purposes permission has been granted to hold such material
(g)Aiding others in dishonest conduct either before or after the event
(h)Misapplication or misappropriation of company equipment and/or property
(i) Harassment, including sexual harassment, and intimidation.

Dont think any of these apply to you.

Gross misconduct is what ever your contract says it is

onedmc

The problem with this is that although its not "written" in their contact that they have to do this work it is part of there unwritten contact. Most of our daily tarks are unwittten contaactual arrangements, (picking up the phone, clearing your desks, replying to cuistomer e-mail) the list is too long to put into a contact.

Basically if you agree to it the first time without complaint then it formed part of your contact.

There is no legal defination of gross misconduct, the company policy and procedures that all employees sign up provides the definitition otherwise it must be be decided by an arbitrator.

I've been down this road, all be it from an employers side a couple of times, get proper advice before taking any actions, or you will loose. They *MUST* contact a solicitor or a trade union rep (even if they are not members) to get real advice

But remember if you agree to do a job once and dont clearly state to your employers or their representative that it is a once-off then it becomes a normal part of your job.

Hobbes

If it is not in your job description you shouldn't have to do it.

That said however there comes times when you have to do work to keep the business happy. But it shouldn't be a done deal. Helping them out and having to do it every month or so are two different things.

Tell them you are doing it, but it is not what you joined for. A previous job did this to me (developer but ended up running the machines I was servicing/writing applications for). In my instance I just quit when my contract ran out.

Blitzkrieger

Originally posted by Silent Assasin
Basically me and my colleagues while we are not busy are being asked to go and support other areas of the plant...

Look busy

I used to work in a place where they did that to people they didn't like. They'd move them to the **** part of the plant and tell them it's just for a short time. They'd only take them back if they really needed them, but a lot of the time they'd find they were there permenantly. Their supervisor would never actually say that - he'd constanly say it's a temporary thing - but the truth was he asked for them to be moved there and wouldn't move them back. It made them look nice because they never fired anyone........just forced them to do **** work until they quit.

Have they hired any new people in your area recently?

I used to have to do a lot of that sort of stuff in a different factory too. I was working as a tech but often had to help out with operator work. One day I was asked to spend two hours hauling heavy stuff around the plant. The supervisor was apolegetic about asking me to do it, but the way I looked at it, I was on overtime getting paid double tech wages to get some exercise. When it got really busy, there was no tech work to do and loads of operator work, so I had to do that for a few weeks. As it happened I didn't mind the work but it might have become boring if I had been there longer.

If I were you I'd put up with it for now. I doubt if your friends could be fired on a gross missconduct charge, but they could probably be fired. I wouldn't hold out hope for constructive dismissal either. I'd not rock the boat and see what happens.

Unpossible

Take it easy when you're doing. Don't rush or kill yourself trying, I mean they can hardly give out to a technichan (sp) for not packing boxes properly and while your taking your sweet time to do these little chores remember that your getting paid tech money for doing it.


remember if you don't want to be asked to do something again just be inefficient at doing it.

Silent Assasin

Thanks for all the Input guys,

Heres what happened we stuck to our guns and the Gross Micsonduct thing was dropped by a higher manager...

They have changed it now, We only have to do it if we want to i.e. voluntary and its only for a week.

Not sure how the voluntary thing is working out cos im on vacation on the moment Ill soon find out I suppose !

Thanks Again !

Our man in Havana

Originally posted by Unpossible
Take it easy when you're doing. Don't rush or kill yourself trying, I mean they can hardly give out to a technichan (sp) for not packing boxes properly and while your taking your sweet time to do these little chores remember that your getting paid tech money for doing it.


remember if you don't want to be asked to do something again just be inefficient at doing it.

Have you heard of the saying "If you don't want to do something, do it badly and you will never be asked again":D