DDR-Ram question

Lemming

I'm looking at getting some new ram alongside a mobo/chip/hd.

I was eyeballing Corsair's XMS TWINX PC3200LL Pro (1gb), but in the scheme of things, how do corsair, geil, and ocz compare?

Col_Loki

There all performance brands , high reguard for corsair and OCZ. You mite want to look at Mushkin Level II memory as its probably the best performance memory on the market IMO, it uses Winbond BH5/6 chips which are excellent for tight timings and high FSB.

Sir Random on the boards has some and its doing 2-3-2-5 (think thats it) @230mhz which is really impressive. Granted he has increased Vdimm.....but still.

The corsair would be a good choice either.

unkel

It depends big time on what platform you have and if and how far you intend to overclock. If you don't overclock, you don't need expensive memory

Generally, if you have a Pentium 4c, you need high speed memory to use the maximum FSB you can handle, timings are not that important.

If you have an Athlon XP or Athlon 64, timings are much more important as the FSB doesn't go that high, so speed of the memory is less important

Post your platform and your plans here and we'll give more specific advice

Lemming

I'm looking at getting an Abit AN-7 Mobo, AthlonXP 3000+, and a Seagate Barracuda 120Gb S-ATA drive. I've decided not to with the Athlon64 option just yet as it's still insanely expensive and the format is still quite new and not very mature.

Col_Loki

If your getting an XP chip then dont get the Xp3000+, that and the Xp3200+ are the biggest waste of money. If your on a budget then get an Xp2500+ and overclock to Xp3200+.

You really should spend less on memory and get the AMD64 3000+, it destroys the Xp3000+ in almost every benchmark and performance is ultimately better.

Going on kompletts price the corsair would be €388, go to www.jes-computer.de and pick up the mushkin level 2 for €320 ish or the level 1 (winbond ch5) for €288. Theres the saving for a far better system!! Ive went down the Xp3000+ road and its not worth it trust me. You will end up trying to compare your system to others and will be disapointed, it overclocks the same as an Xp2500+ and memory performance is retarded. Go with either an Intel or an AMD64 if your going for a high end system.

Lemming

As I've said, I don't want to go down the AMD64 route yet. The architecture is too new for compatibility problems to come to light yet, and it's too expensive. And I'll get belted for the MoBo. THe one I had looked at initially was the Abit KV8-Max3 - a good 60+ euro more expensive.

And there is bugger all (besides games) that takes advantage of the 64-bit architecture, and by the time there is the AMD64 3000+ will be the equivalent of running win98 on a pentium 50. I'll wait for 64 bit O/S's to become a little more widely used before I jump on that one.

The only reason I'm changing is because my MoBo has some sort of power fault at the atx connector. it works - but can be a pain in the ass to boot up. I am not willing to spend silly money yet. The only reason I entertained the RAM was because a) the AN-7 is 400MHz dual-channel ready, and b) because I could move the ram to a new board easily. And good quality ram is good quality ram either way you look at it. My rationale about it was that I would try eliminate as many bottle-necks as possible inside the system without getting silly about it.

I'm also not prepared to spend hours (possibly days) banging my head against BIOS settings trying to O/C. At this point I just want a PC that boots first time I press the power button without having to pop the case and fiddle with the atx connector. So you can possibly see why I'm fed up tinkering around inside a case.

So with that in mind - is the AthlonXP 2800+ any good?

Col_Loki

Generally people with AMD64's think the performance is very smooth and they notice a huge difference from the XP range (even highly overclocked). The AMD64 is a great performer in games as you know but also in general things. I see your point about it being very new out so onto the other options.

The dual DDR feature on the AMD chipsets isnt great at all , it adds between 2 and 5% to memory performance which is nothing.

Getting expensive good quality Ram might be a bit dodgy with DDR2 comming out (havent had a chance to look into this enough but its something to think about). I know overclocking can be a nitemare sometimes but the change from Xp2500+ to Xp3200+ is easy.... just pop the FSB up to 200mhz and up the Vcore until she is stable (provided you have Pc3200 ram and a 400mhz FSB mobo).

The Xp2800+ isint as much of a waste of money. As much as i like AMD its higher end XP chips dont compare to the newer intel "C" chips (i hate saying that ). Mabye a 2.8/3ghz Intel?

If your set on not overclocking and set on AMD then id personally go for an Xp2800+. (The XP2600+ (2gz)mobile chip should hit Xp3200+ (prob more)on the usual 1.65v with no problems at all www.excaliberpc.com has them for $118 delivered).

unkel

I think COL_LOKI is right pushing the Athlon 64 on you, Lemming

A couple of considerations:

1. you don't really want to overclock (or spend time doing it)

2. you want something that runs out of the box, I presume you want to use the pc for a couple of years at least?

3. the high end platforms are changing radically this year - not ever was there a year with so many changes. Whatever you buy now will not be current anymore in a year's time (cpu's, mobo platform, ddr2, pci-e, 64 bit OS)

4. you want a fast enough pc for not too much money

Taken all that into account I'd advise you to get a low end (cheap) athlon 64 cpu, an athlon 64 mobo of your choice (read reviews or ask people here for advise, not my area of experience yet). Use the stock cooler to save some more money

Get some cheap and cheerful PC3200 memory to compensate for the relatively expensive cpu/mobo

Then enjoy the superior performance of a not overclocked athlon 64 system. Even intel heads will have to admit that stock pentium 4c (or prescott for that matter) compared to stock athlon 64, the athlon wins hands down in almost all uses of the pc, especially gaming

If this is still too expensive, I urge you to find the missing yoyo's somewhere, wait a few months, or, if you have to, build an athlon xp rig but keep it as cheap as possible, cause most important parts in that pc will be obsolete very soon. With the athlon 64 you'd get a longer lifespan and much better performance from day 1

And make sure you get the parts cheap! www.jes-computer.de is the cheapest in europe generally by a good bit

Big Chief

Originally posted by COL_LOKI

Getting expensive good quality Ram might be a bit dodgy with DDR2 comming out (havent had a chance to look into this enough but its something to think about). I know overclocking can be a nitemare sometimes but the change from Xp2500+ to Xp3200+ is easy.... just pop the FSB up to 200mhz and up the Vcore until she is stable (provided you have Pc3200 ram and a 400mhz FSB mobo).

i have pc3200 ram and a xp3000+ in my machine, does that mean im not taking advantage of the 400mhz fsb mobo i have? (abit an-7)..

could you explain plz loki (and good job on the modding, good to see you got modship, meant to say on the other thread..)

the problem with oc my cpu is i have a silent computer atm which i quite like, the fan generally runs at 1000-2500rpm meaning (arctic cooler copper heatsink) its really quiet.. but would be nice to get more juice out of it if im missing out on the ram not getting enough speed (atleast thats what im taking your saying here?)

is the xp3000+ 333 mhz do you remember? as im not sure on that one.. cant remember if its 333 or 400..

Col_Loki

i have pc3200 ram and a xp3000+ in my machine, does that mean im not taking advantage of the 400mhz fsb mobo i have? (abit an-7)..

Unless....
A) You got a 400mhz Xp3000+ which arent as popular as the 333mhz FSB ones or
you have set the FSB to 400mhz manually.

If you havent done either of these then your memory is running at Pc2700 and your FSB is 333mhz (2x166mhz).

If you have gotten the chip new in the last while it is probably a locked version which isint a good sign for getting up the FSB. If its an older version then setting it to 200mhz x 11 in the bios will sort you out (voltage shouldnt be a prob).

the problem with oc my cpu is i have a silent computer atm which i quite like, the fan generally runs at 1000-2500rpm meaning

Changing the FSB should have little effect on the CPU temps so dont worry about that.

is the xp3000+ 333 mhz do you remember?

There are two versions, a 333mhz FSB and a 400mhz FSB....... more than lightly its the 333mhz FSB

Pop into the bios and have a look ?

Lemming

Originally posted by COL_LOKI
If you havent done either of these then your memory is running at Pc2700 and your FSB is 333mhz (2x166mhz).

If you have gotten the chip new in the last while it is probably a locked version which isint a good sign for getting up the FSB. If its an older version then setting it to 200mhz x 11 in the bios will sort you out (voltage shouldnt be a prob).

if I get an AthlonXp 2800+ (which will in all probability be 333mhz) tomorrow, what will be the implications for getting PC3200 RAM running at 400mhz running off an Abit AN-7 mobo.

If I get my hands on a 400mhz chip (I've seen 3000/3200) I assume there'll be no such problems?

Col_Loki

If you get an Xp2800+ the only way you will get your Ram running at Pc3200 is if you overclock the FSB and chip.

The Xp3200+ and 400mhz Xp3000+ will automatically run the memory at DDR400.

Big Chief

i took a look in bios like you said loki



is that what your referring to?

while im on to you, is the agp frequency supposed to be at 66? isnt that a bit low? (i have a radeon 9800 pro)

Col_Loki

The AGP speed is fine, you dont want to go messing with that if at all possible ..... fried GFX cards may result!!

You should enable your "cpu interface" as its best for performance.

Also press enter on the Xp3000+ and try "user define". Try changing the multiplier to 11 and FSB to 200mhz. This is that settings for Xp3200+ (basically the same speed as the Xp3000+ so voltage increase shouldnt be needed). If it boots up and runs then you have an unlocked chip which is good and your memory will run at DDR400 (pc3200)....... if not then its probably locked and theres not much you can do except overclock the chip using the FSB, but that wont go too far.

Big Chief

enabled cpu interface, what does it do anyway?

the cpu must be locked also, i changed the settings to 200*11 and it never booted, just a black screen for ages (was scared to turn it off after seeing the big red "saving bios settings do not turn off your computer") after reading a thread about someone who done that and he killed the board..

anyway must be locked, which is pretty gay ? had to take out the battery for 5 mins and managed to get it back up though...

not chuffed about that , spent the extra money on getting the 3200 ram only to find out it dosent do anything as my cpu halts it....

Col_Loki

Normally if you just take the plug out of the PSU for a couple of mins and then try to boot it will be fine. With all the crazy things ive tried in the BIOS ive never had to take out the battery.

Sorta sucks that its locked but was expecting that. With the high multiplier on the Xp3000+ getting to 200mhz FSB is almost impossible TBH, even getting near it would require very good cooling.

Its rough i know........ sorry man!!

CPU interface just runs your system at the overclocked speed (memory) in tune with the CPU...... if your not overclocked it wont make a difference but its good to have it on anyway.

Dr Bolouswki

that was me that killed the board... ah well...

If you want to swap the 3200 for 2700 plus some cash, give me a shout, as I have an unlocked chip but am using 1GB of 2700 and don't want to clock until I have memory that can handle the heat....