NRA wants more tolled roads

WezzyB

just heard on the news that the NRA are planning on putting tolls onto a few existing roads such as:

• Jack Lynch Tunnel (Cork)
• Newbridge Bypass (N7)
• M50 (Dublin)

Edit: Source was 16:30 news bulletin on redfm

laoisfan

don't we have to pay a toll-charge on the M50 already?

jank

the tolling on the jack lynch tunnel wont go down well at all!

Victor

Originally posted by jank
the tolling on the jack lynch tunnel wont go down well at all!

I'm not sure if it will work as people can still go via the city centre and Tivoli to avoid the toll.

Crossley

don't we have to pay a toll-charge on the M50 already?

I believe they're proposing to put another toll plaza at the southern end of the M50. They obviously reckon there won't be enough congestion in that area ;-)

WezzyB

Originally posted by Crossley
another toll plaza at the southern end of the M50.

Yeah maybe they'll do a nice conversion of the ruins of Carrickmines castle into a toll booth....

Genghis

If we are going to have tolling, then why don't we do it properly? Like they do in other countries you would get a slip when you join a motorway, you present this when you leave, and you are charged by the kilometre. An 'Eazypass' alternative could also be promoted.

The current system of flat-tolling long-distance routes is inequitable as it punishes local traffic.

The network should be a single network spanning from the Border to Galway, Limerick, Cork, Waterford and around Dublin. The charge should be something like 4c/5c a kilometre, possibly subject to a minimum toll of €1.

Obviuously every entry / exit point would have a toll plaza, "in-road" plazas (such as the M50 plazas) would be removed (except for the start/end of the network), and consequently queues would be distributed over more tolling points, and would never disrupt traffic flow along the highway.

The tolls should not be put in place until the network is complete; in the mean time the NRA could sell the future tolling rights / borrow against future revenues to realise the revenues now.

Victor

Originally posted by Genghis
The tolls should not be put in place until the network is complete

When will it be "complete"? Motorway systems have the habit of constantly expanding. The American Interstate system was started in the 1930s and isn't finished yet.

If someone in Dundalk only ever uses the Dundalk-Dublin section, why should they get a free ride until the system is "complete"?

Genghis

Victor,

Naturally a motorway system will expand. However, by 'complete' i did not mean 'completed', I meant 'joined up' (apologies).

Under existing arrangements and those set out in the new tolling proposals, a driver from Dundalk travelling to Cork city will be asked to stop and pay four times in each direction:

1. Drogheda By-pass
2. M50 Bridge
3. Newbridge
4. Jack Lynch tunnel

With the possible exception of Drogheda, all of these tolling points necessitate stopping the journey and are liable to delay traffic.

Along the way he will travel on at least 4 discrete non-continuous motorways:

1. Dundalk to M50 interchange
2. M50
3. M7 (Naas to Monasterevin)
4. M7 (Portlaoise)

(Not to mention partly opened sections south of Abbeyleix as they are constructed.)

A similar pattern would apply to almost any national long distance journey.

When the current national roads programme is delivered, about 95% of that journey would be motorway. The funding from the new tolls should close the final gaps - pay for proper motorway to motorway interchanges, and upgrade / replace dual carriageways such as the M50 to M7 stretch of the N7.

You could then have a basic motorway 'network' which reaches maybe 80% of the population, and you can then operate a national toll franchise for the network. Future expansions (such as extensions, Limerick to Ennis, or new inter-urban schemse, perhaps a Waterford / Cork / Galway motorway, for example) would tie in to the existing network, making it even more joined up and more valuable.

DaithiSurfer

Or they could just accept that irish motorists pay their motor tax and so have paid to use the roads already.

Victor

Originally posted by DaithiSurfer
Or they could just accept that irish motorists pay their motor tax and so have paid to use the roads already.

Road tax just about covers the cost of local roads, nevermind national roads and motorways.

BrianD

The current system of flat-tolling long-distance routes is inequitable as it punishes local traffic.

The M50 is not supposed to be used by local traffic! The original plan was to have toll booths on the slip roads on off the M50 at the various junctions.

The EAsypass system in a joke on the M50 due to the bad design of the toll plaza. You end up behind a load of non-easypass users who are trying to get out of the easypass lane because there is no adequate signage in advance. Plus the easypass can't be used on the M1 (yet?). In Portugal you cruise through the toll gates at 60kmh. You can even pay for your petrol using it!

Crossley

a driver from Dundalk travelling to Cork city will be asked to stop and pay four times in each direction:

I think you'll find that should be five times at least. The Fermoy by-pass (contract about to be awarded) will also be tolled I believe. At this rate whatever time you might have saved by using a faster road will be more than lost queuing at toll booths.

Tommy Vercetti

Originally posted by Victor
Road tax just about covers the cost of local roads, nevermind national roads and motorways.

Thank heavens for the €3.4 billion from VRT, VAT, excise duty, etc. then!

Andrew Duffy

The figure of €4bn quoted by TV3 is inaccurate; the tax take from motor tax, VRT and exise duty was €2.25bn last year. Since only a very small amount of money earned in this, or any country, is invested long term it is fair to say that the VAT paid by motorists on their car, insurance, fuel, servicing and tolls is also collected from non-motorists on the purchases they make with the money they don't spend on cars. Remember that even houses are subject to VAT (a tax that was introduced on luxury items during wartime) in this ludicrous country.

A small addendum to this is that Dublin contributes well above the average per-head income tax and VAT take, yet Dubliners make by far the most use of public transport - thus the large sums spent on transport in the city are paid for by income tax and VAT rather than direct levies.