20-in tonight (14-04) at the Fitz...

DeVore

Since I can only play tonight or tomorrow night but not both I've decided that the 20-in is much more my kinda game and I'll be along tonight to play. Anyone fancy giving me some chips?

DeV.

Lafortezza

Whats the format for tonight? €23 down, then 3 rebuys? 2 plus a topup?
I might be tempted...

Iago

I posted a thread a few hours ago asking the same thing!!!


I'll be there tonight alright, will you be meeting up beforehand or is it too awkward with your injury?

DeVore

23 down, 3 rebuys or 2 rebuys and a topup. I've rarely seen people go past the single rebuy. The rebuys are 1500, 2000 and 2500 if memory serves and the topup is 3K (I could be wrong about that). So most people play with the chips they get and try not to have to rebuy ... the top up is worth it though so expect to spend 40-60 on the night. Its a decent game, 2-3 tables and decent players. Nothing to heavy but noone acting the maggot either (at least in my experience). I think you'd enjoy it.

Prize money is about 550 for the first and 300 for the second, down to 5th I think... so its not to be sniffed at either...I've walked out with 300 notes in my back pocket just before Canada.... (must have used up all my luck!)

DeV.

[edit] 8 o'clock in the Henry Grattan Iago/anyone? [/edit]

Decker

Hi,

I'll probably drop down tonight. Perhaps meet in the Hennry Gratten at 8:30?

I suppose dev will limp along and then into a few hands as well?

Alex

Iago

8 in the grattan suits me, I'll see you there...

Iago

although if all the top players are going to be there mayb I'm better waiting until tomorrow!!

Lafortezza

I am tempted...but I'm trying to avoid the rebuy tournaments....the Fitz really need to start a €50 freezeout in the early evenings for the after-the-work crowd.

I'll probably see ye in the Henry G just after 8, downstairs I assume Dev?

DeVore

Har Har... arent yis all very fnckin' funny now

Yeah I'll be downstairs from 8 in the HG. I think you are over reacting to the thursday buy-in fest Luke, this is nothing like it and its nice to have a safety net if you do get bad beaten early on (like for example, if Davey Devil is hangin around *cough* )

The rebuys are used for what they should be used for, getting back into a game you shouldnt have been kicked out of rather then as reentries when you're wild gamble for a big stack didnt pay off!!

Rebuys are a feature of the game though I agree that I'd like a 50 freeze out early in the evening once a week. You cant avoid rebuy games forever you know ...

DeV.

Lafortezza

Well, I finished on the bubble last night. I sympathise with those of you that have finished just outside the money before too...it stinks.

Early in the evening it was all going well, I got nice cards, played them ok including a slow played house that I almost dragged a guy holding bullets into. It got alot tought when it was down to 2 tables of about 7 or 8 people each. The final table was made when there was just 9 players left. So as each table lost players everyone tightened up wanting to reach the final table. There was all sorts of blind-stealing and late position raising. All it needed was for someone to get caught with their hand in the cookie jar trying to steal blinds. After the blinds went up to 500-1000 a guy went all in in early position and Alex called him with QJ. Probably not a call I would have made, but Alex obviously knew what he was doing when the guy flipped over 74 offsuit. 9 players.

Myself, DeV and Alex were on the last table, Alex had a fairly big stack, Dev and I had average enough piles of chips. There was lots of aggressive pre-flop raises as the blind began to rise fairly quickly.
One hand I look down to see AKo, I raise, DeV calls, Alex goes all-in, I call, Dev calls!

I flip my AK, Dev turns AJ, and Alex has KQ. Dev hits a Jack on the flop and its pretty much all over for that hand. Luckily I *just* had DeV covered in chips so I win the side pot.
6000 chips left, I'm automatically in the big blind for 4000, Stormin Norman raises to about 9000, its folded to me, I look down to see 8 2 of diamonds. I chuck in my last few chips hoping to see an "Allllll Red!" flop, no luck.

When I left DeV was still plugging away, a reasonable stack, but the blinds were starting to hurt everyone.

Iago

It all went to pot for me again, I had a lot of time to analyse my play last night, seen as how I was knocked out and on my way home by 11.30 and a few things have occured to me.

1. I'm quite possibly the unlukiest card player alive. Doesn't seem to matter what I have, if I'm called I get beaten. Last night I had pocket 7's the flop comes 4 5 6 and it comes round to me. There's only 3 players left so I go all in, I have an open ended straight draw and if anybody has picked up a pair on the flop my pair is better. I figure if anybody had a higher pair going into the flop they would have raised.

Lady calls my all in and turns over A J, and picks up an A on the turn. A few hands later I limp on 5h6h and the flop comes with 5 6 8, I check and the guy next to me goes all in, seen as I only had just over a hundred left I call, he turns over 47o to complete the straight! What was he doing playing 47o in the first place??

We get to the freezeout and a few hands in I'm looking at my stack and I've got 3000 left, blinds are at 100-200 and increasing to 200-400 in 3 minutes, I could do with winning a hand. I'm dealt AQo so I just call the blind for 100. Lady raises it to 500, everyone folds around to me and I figure it's worth seeing the flop with what I have, shes been increasing the blinds to 5-600 on nearly every hand all night anyway. Flop comes Q66 so I check to her, she goes 1000 and I think about it, she could have a 6 a Q or a high pair, she could also have nothing, shes been caught a few times with her hand in the jar. I raise all in for another 1250, I want her to call me and give me the chance to double through with a reasonable stack to sit on. She duly calls me and turns over the cowboys, turn gives her the set and I'm on my way home...

2. My pride will be the death of me, the last hand above I was determined not to drop, she had raised the blinds on at least 10-12 occasions with nothing and picked up 2 cards to give her a hand. At least half a dozen of those times I dropped low pocket pairs and it was rankling me. So I refused to drop that last hand, and it knocked me out of the game. So much for going on tilt

3. I'm too impatient, I start off fine playing tight and only getting involved when I have the right hand, but after an hour or so my attention starts to waver and I get bored of sitting watching hands. Maybe bored is too strong a word, but I definitely get itchy. Prime example last night, I hadn't been involved for about 10 hands, dealt rubbish time and again. I look at my cards and I have A7s call the blind and sit back, the guy to my left goes all in for 750, everybody folds around to me and I think about it for a few minutes, if I call it will leave me with about 250 in chips...I call, and he turns over pocket J's, flop comes 7xx turn gives me the set and I take the chips. I shouldn't have called though, I played because I was impatient and because I'd caught him out earlier in the night, but that's not a good enough reason for calling that hand!

4. I don't place enough value in what I'm playing for, instead of thinking about the prize money I'm just enjoying the night out and thinking, well it's only 40-€60 I'd spend more in the pub so it doesn't matter. I'm not ruthless enough, treating it like a home game, see the first part above with some of the hands I'm playing that I really shouldn't be!!

I figure if I can change these things I'll start to place in these tournaments, I know I can play cards. I've won enough money over the last few years to be confident in my game, just need to weed out the weaknesses...

Hyzepher

I have said this a lot - especially in recent times - and I have been the victim of it as much as anyone --- concentration is the key to good poker. The law of averages give everyone the same type of cards over any given night. Being able to concentrate on how your table is playing, how the table see you, and playing the right hands at the right time are all key and all require constant concentration.

A lot of people have done silly things because of boredom - seeing 20 rubbish hands in a row can make any player start to fall in love with K9o!

Another very good tip is to have a 'General' game plan before you start to play. Are you going to play ultra tight and only play premium hands, will you bluff a little, what are your guarenteed starting hands? It is handy to have the answers to these questions before you start. You can always adapt your game depending on the way the table is going.

If things are not going your way then you need to make a stand with the chips you have in front of you - but you need to make a stand BEFORE your stack gets too small - it needs to be big enough that other players will think twice about calling with anything but small enough to warrent a few risks. If you let your stack get too low then you become less of a threat and its harder to make your way back

Hyzepher

mewso

I agree with Chris. I'm guilty of limping with K9 when I've been waiting for a hand, Q10, J9 etc. The most success I have tends to be if I stick to a set of standards.
I still have no cast iron theory about the rebuy period in tourneys. Alot of the "regulars"/better players seem to think it's the time to play anything and go mad basically. I'm convinced that tight agressive works during a rebuy as much as any other strategy with some slight differences. Your starting hands are slightly weaker than normal (not much though) and I'm beginning to think that during a rebuy it might be worth always raising. i.e. if a hand is worth calling during a rebuy then its worth raising.
I haven't put this theory fully into practice but the last wednesday night I went in to the fitz I had been playing badly online and decided I was going to play strictly to my tight-agressive edict and made the money.
Most of your hands above Iago were just plain unlucky bar the A7 of course. Standard tournament tight-agressive play would have you raising AK, AQ etc. and they are vulnerable hands but in general the player that raises these hands will win chips assuming he/she knows when to back off and throw them away. These are hands you want to be raising with, not calling raises with if that makes sense. Often you want to take the blinds and thats it. Calling a raise with AQ is not a good idea because you don't know what you are up against AK/pocket pair/monster.

DeVore

What a night! Started off UTTERLY SH*T... pre-freeze out I was getting bad cards and not playing great... I didnt get one pocket pair at all before the top up, not one. I made a few mistakes too which didnt help and cost me a rebuy. I had Stormin Norman on my left all night, even when we formed the last table I drew a 2 and he a 3 for the seating... ffs!

He was trash talking me the entire time, told me I was the worst poker player he'd ever seen, asking me how I could call with that sh*te etc etc... this isnt an occasional bit of banter, this is almost every hand! At one stage he deliberately took ages on a hand so that the blinds (which were a minute from going up) would hit me for the new amount. He even showed me the cards (10,4o). I got him back later on by doing the same thing to him, and I showed him my 82o too

When the top up came I had 600 chips only! I topped up to 3100 but I must have had the smallest stack of any player at any table. I turtled and decided to Get'em and Bet'em.... Suddenly the cards started to come and I couldnt stop betting but they were all legitimate hands... I doubled through and then again and stole a few hands post flop as my table image was Newbie-Rock

Norman and a mate of his decided to stage world war three at our table and were taking lumps off each other and annihilating players who got in the way. I took a scalp or two myself but mostly sat out and nipped and tucked between the nukes the lads were throwing around. Before I knew where I was I was up to about 30K.... then I got a bit scared... I desperately wanted to get back to a big table as we spent an ungodly age playing 5-way at the second last table and I find that hard to do... I bet out a couple of 5K bets only to have one bloke go over the top all in and I'd put down my top pair... I learned a lot from that I can tell you! Dont bet it, unless you are willing to back it!

After what seemed an age the final table formed and I was hurting chipwise, I had about 15K and was well behind most. Norman is STILL to my left and still trash talking me. At one stage he tried to bet me 100 on the side that he'd be the one to take me out!

Then Luke made his move and I honestly thought he might be stealing. Besides, I had about 8K left and like Hyzepher says, you have to make your stand while it still means something...
I went all in directly after you Luke, there was no raising because I was gutted when Decker came in after me... I thought I was going home for sure. That jack was a saviour but I had a decent chance at something as both alex and I had covered both your cards. After that I never looked back and made a few good moves and one loony one. The guy who had been going over the top all night against me pulled his stunt again. I had A2 and in a fit of annoyance called his 40K all-in. He had J's and I felt stupid. Flop comes rags, turn is a rag and I have my crutches already and thank the table etc and the river comes an Ace. I nearly fell over, crutches and all. Its happened so often against me that I'll take it when it favours me for once! He was left with 3K and has to go all in against my big blind of 6K. I have 8,2o and he has jammed KJ for the enforced all-in! Flop brings an 8 and its all over for him. I wouldnt mind but we had offered him a deal when he had his stack and he said "I dont deal"... not the brightest response at that point imho!

That left me and norman, I have 86K and he has 83K... the prize money is 1100 and 550 and I look at Norman and say "so what about you, do you deal?" with a grin... sure enough Norman and I left 150 for the dealers (cos the last two cheap bastards didnt!) and split the rest for 750 each. As we're walking away...I turn to him and say "So you just dropped 350 to secure 200 against the worst poker player you've ever seen eh?" Norman blushes a bit and say "ah you know I dont mean any of that sh*te, its all just talk"

I think that win puts me just behind Davey for actual cash winnings (didnt he win some huge amount at the big game?)
150 from the business league, 300 from the 20-in just before Canada and 750 last night makes 1200 notes ... maybe my luck IS changing

DeV.

Hyzepher

You know what Dev, I had a feeling about last night. I didn't make it myself - although I did try - damn kids. But I had a feeling just after you posted up yesterday that you would do something. Even after Lukes post this morning I had a feeling that you would get something.

The sad thing about it is that I feel I am falling further and further behind as far as progress goes - in the Fitz that is. Online is like a different story - up to nearly 5 figures at this stage. Yes 5! - well may 4.5.

Anyway - I have a decision to make this week. Go tonight or tomorrow - bit of a difference in poker - I'd prefer Friday but I would like to meet up with some boards people now and again and I feel there will be no one there for the €50 game.

Anyone going?

Hyzepher

Decker

Hey, break a leg.:)

Well done.

Alex

DeVore

chris, I dont think you have anything to worry about regarding the Fitz but the only way to improve is to play as we all know. That 20-in game is a nice little evenings poker, you should try it.

At the freezeout I didnt fancy my chances cos I was *so* low stacked.... then I started to get cards and I liked my mental attitude which has a lot to do with it for me anyway! When I got to 25K on the second table I decided I was going to get paid and basically ground my way to the final table and then into the prize money, one painful hand at a time!

I felt a brief moment's grief for Luke and Alex though (very brief in Luke's case given his sig ), cos I kinda jammed that hand

DeV.

Lafortezza

Fair play Dev! Just as I left you were on an average stack but you had that big grin on your face that meant you were ready to have a go. I've seen Norman "banter" with people before, and I've seen them fold winning hands when he does his trash talking bit. You must have had him a touch worried when he was happy enough to make a deal..

Which guy refused the deal? the guy to Norman's left?

€150 for the dealers?? Whats that about?

DeVore

Its usual to tip the dealers a certain amount, normally you'd leave 50-100 depending on the winnings but since the other two decent cash winners didnt leave anything we put in a little extra. I didnt mind since it was part of the deal and I didnt much fancy heads up with Norman at 2am with my leg aching a bit, though it would have given me a lot of satisfactiion to bust Norman and I think he knew it

The guy to Norman's left refused the deal. I think he was dumb and he got busted a few hands later. silly lad...

I did have a big grin on my face when you were leaving, I was in the money against all the odds earlier on and lately my life has consisted of gritting my teeth and working through things, so I was well chuffed that I'd gotten into the money and everything else was gravy!

DeV.

mewso

I heard a rumour the dealers dont get a wage. That they rely on tips. If thats the case then fair enough.

I'm thinking of going into the game tomorrow night but I can't be certain.

Well done Dev. If I had bothered to put my top 5 players up you would have been no.1

gerire

heard a rumour the dealers dont get a wage. That they rely on tips. If thats the case then fair enough.

Thats not true. Ive been talking to a few who play the tournaments and from what they were saying its very well paid which falls in line with what I heard before. I was told your average dealer can get upto 4500 per month after tax. And thats a quote from a dealer who was getting that in the fitz before he left to go to the mayfair.

It is just natural to leave a tip especially in games like brag when you hit trips or a brag. As regards to tournament play I must say I was guilty of walking out without leaving a tip after the 250 January game due to my excitement of winning money. Last Sunday I left 10% and reckon thats what Im going to try and stick to. Suppose it all depends on the win Vs the investment

Lafortezza

Originally posted by gerire
I was told your average dealer can get upto 4500 per month after tax.

Thats getting near 55000 into their hand!!!! They must be grossing nearly 80000....
They should be tipping me....

Davey Devil

Originally posted by DeVore

I think that win puts me just behind Davey for actual cash winnings

Well done DeV - you still have a fair bit to go to catch me up

On the dealers side of things - I doubt they earn that much but if they do, where do I sign up????

cormie

I don't find it necessary to tip a dealer. It seems slightly inappropriate to do so. It's like saying thank you for giving you the cards. As if the cards dictate the win. I feel it's up to the player and not the cards. Also, I only earn about €800 pm.

Decker

80k a year! It’s card dealers we’re talking about … right?

Still pissed off after my bad “all in”, followed by Norman’s insane call on JJ. That’s what you get for being cheeky.

Alex

DeVore

I'd have been tempted to drop KQ (cant recall the suits but I think they were offsuit) given that Luke was all in and Crazy Ivan here fell in love with his AJ suited and followed him... All the same it could have been a Q instead of a J that dropped but its not something I would want to stake all my chips on... Of course I should have dropped my AJ too but when I called there was only one other bloke in the pot and I thought he might have been robbing...

Normans a funny guy to play against, very hard to deal with him sometimes. He doesnt like knowing what you had btw, I showed him that he had walked away from a house I had flopped once and he narkily said "if I want to see what you've got I'll pay to see it, alright". From that point on I made a point of showing him every time we were heads up or he folded. I played 32 simply because he was annoying me at one point (not a good idea) and the flop came AKQ and I bet out 5K at the second table and he crumpled like tissue saying "bah, lucky flop" or something, so I showed him the 32 just to get in his face a bit. All in all there was a good bit of tension between us as from the very start I think he felt he could get under my skin and he did a damned good job of trying to. Hard to keep you're head clear with him in your left earhole but I think I got to him a bit too heheh...

Davey, how much did you pick up that night? Must have been a fair chunk of cash alright! (4k ish?)... with your record in the freerolls too you should seriously think about the 20/50 in's (I know your a student ... maybe you should get someone to stake you for a share!)

I'm relieved to have won last night as I didnt play great poker and my luck supported me in a few dodgy calls. Mostly I just threw them back to the sounds of derision from Norman

DeV.

Davey Devil

I got 3,400 for 2nd. Once the exams are finished in May I'll be playing more often. I don't want to get too serious about it to be honest - I like qualifying for the big events, there's no pressure on me and I can play my usual game with no fear. Once I start putting money into it, I'd be afraid it wouldn't be as much fun.

DeVore

Thats a good attitude alright. While I can *really* use the cash I won last night (hospital bills and all that) I never ever sit down at a poker table with money I cant afford to lose. Indeed mentally I have already spent that money and am buying a good nights entertainment. That way I never actually *lose* per-se as I've yet to leave the club feeling like I didnt get my entertainments worth... sick as a parrot (like last Thursday!) sometimes but always entertained. Thats why I dont really understand the mentality of playing the 100+ games as its too serious for my tastes and at the 100 in game the prize was 1800 for first place, last nights first place was 1100 so its not that far behind!

DeV.

krattapopov

i had a quite chat with a dealer there tonight...

turns out there are different types of dealers.. roulette, blackjack.. these guys get wages, however poker dealers are paid in tips only