[Article] Dublin set for massive sell-off of council flats

Victor

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2091-1070176,00.html

Dublin set for massive sell-off of council flats
Siobhan Maguire

DUBLIN city council is considering the capital’s biggest-ever property sale. The local authority wants to sell €3.3 billion worth of flats to its tenants at a knock-down rate, as part of an overhaul of its housing services.

The council, Ireland’s biggest landlord, owns more than 26,500 homes in Dublin. Now it is considering selling them either to existing tenants, or to housing associations and co-operatives prepared to manage them.

The sale could be a lucrative money-spinner for the council. Commercial valuers estimate its rental portfolio to be worth €3.3 billion, as many of the complexes are in lucrative city-centre locations.

If the proposal goes ahead, the flats are likely to be sold at favourable rates to tenants, taking into account the amount of rent they have paid over the years and the age and condition of the properties.

The council is likely to make further savings on rent collection and other administrative costs associated with managing the huge property portfolio. Last year it spent €50m maintaining city-centre flats, and could spend up to €8 billion over the next eight years.

Charlie Lowe, a senior council official, said: “We are still in discussion stages but the proposal is being fine-tuned and will be presented to the Department of the Environment. This is something we are keen to see put in place and believe it will be to the benefit of our existing tenants.”

Of the 10,000 houses and 16,500 flats in its ownership, the two biggest housing estates are Darndale on the northside of the city and Cherry Orchard on the southside. The biggest flats complex is Ballymun with 2,812 dwellings, though it has recently been demolished while a new development is being built. Other big complexes include Fatima Mansions in Rialto and St Michael’s estate in Inchicore, which have 720 flats between them. They are also both due to be redeveloped.

Other flat complexes are intended for public-private partnership schemes where developers will purchase the flats and designate a percentage to social housing while the remainder will stay in private ownership.

The council is drafting proposals for the Department of the Environment, which must approve the scheme.

Brendan Kenny, the assistant city manager, said: “It could be argued that we are too big a landlord, that we have created ghettos, though not deliberately; that we have helped create a serious dependency culture in our estates. It could be argued that it is very difficult for us to give and sustain the very intensive management service that we have given in recent years, and is likely to be needed into the future. But if we had less of a housing stock then perhaps we could.”

The proposal was first mooted in November. The council initially wanted to sell the property either to a housing association or a co-operative of residents, modelled along the lines of the Iveagh Trust and the National Association of Building Co-operatives. Local groups objected because there was no provision for future local authority housing schemes. Last month the council presented modified proposals to a strategic policy committee.

Dermot Lacey, a Labour councillor, said: “I think it is a good idea to allow tenants the opportunity to own their own homes. At the moment, flats belonging to the council are rented by long-term tenants who look after their properties and deserve the opportunity to buy out their homes. A housing co-operative that would take over as landlord is also something that will work well.”

Daithi Doolan, a Sinn Fein councillor and a tenant in the city council’s Pearse Street flats, said tenants must be the “architects of their future”.

The city council said it is confident most councillors and tenants would support the scheme and understand its benefits.

dglancy

I currently live in a really lovely apartment for the past two years. Have spent 28,800 on rent in those years. Would love to have been given the opportunity to buy the place out at a reduced/knockdown rate.

Ah, well ...

seamus

Originally posted by dglancy
I currently live in a really lovely apartment for the past two years. Have spent 28,800 on rent in those years. Would love to have been given the opportunity to buy the place out at a reduced/knockdown rate.

Ah, well ...

You mad bastard. You do realise that you've pretty much wasted €28,800? Have you never considered buying? At least if you're paying the same money into a mortgage, you're getting something out of it. IMO, once you begin paying more than €800 per month on rent, it's time to seriously reconsider your options.

Call me bigoted and snobby, but I wouldn't be too crazy about buying a council flat...

alleepally

'sfunny isn't it... Council calls their property flats. Private developers call them apartments.

seamus

Originally posted by alleepally
'sfunny isn't it... Council calls their property flats. Private developers call them apartments.

"Luxury" apartments at that. So true.

dglancy

Apartment/flats ... I always wanted to know what the difference was! Thanks!

28800 (24 months * 1200/month). I know. I know. Crazy! Anyways, I've taken the dive and have signed contracts on a new apartment with my girlfriend. Moving in around September.

First thing I'm gonna do? Take down a wall or too! Always wanted to do that and you can't when your renting!

RainyDay

Originally posted by dglancy
First thing I'm gonna do? Take down a wall or too! Always wanted to do that and you can't when your renting!

You probably can't do this in a purchased apartment either. Get your solicitor to check the small print in the contract - There are normally fairly stringent terms and conditions about what you can/can't do in an apartment block.

dglancy

Nah, sure I've already bought me hammer down at Homebase

Victor

Originally posted by RainyDay
First thing I'm gonna do? Take down a wall or too!

Why bother? Save money by gettignhte builder to not put it up in the first place.

Originally posted by RainyDay
You probably can't do this in a purchased apartment either.

Well it's more a matter of getting permission and possibly planning permission (reduction in the number of habitable rooms).

dglancy

Folks, I don't actually want to take down a wall ... just do something I couldn't to while renting. Maybe I'll just furnish it nice!

Fionn101

Well I hope this will start a decent discussion , but I don;t believe that council tennants should be allowed to purchase their flat for a reduced rate , if at all.

It is one thing to be scrounging off the state (i'm sure there are a few legit cases, widows etc) at a rent of 20euro a month , but to give them the oppertunity to buy the flat and then resell at a huge profit , thats just ludicrous.

Scroungers should not profit from doing F*** all , and if the state really wants to free up resources then they should be sold at current market value, and open to all.

imho

Fionn

RainyDay

Originally posted by Fionn101
, but to give them the oppertunity to buy the flat and then resell at a huge profit , thats just ludicrous.

I would expect that any such selloff would have similar 'claw back' rules to the affordable housing schemes, so that if the house were sold within 10-15 years, the state would get a fair share of the profits.

dglancy

I guess it's a balance between the social good and value-for-money for the state. The clawback idea seems to make since to me and could be fair.

Mind you, we've all seen old council houses go on sale for crazy prices all over Dublin - some people have done very well out of it!

Would some tenant's have squatters rights by now?

M&MsGer

Has anyone on here gotten a mortgage without having the 8%/10% of the total mortgage? My prob is that I could pay a mortgage without any prob. I pay more rent than the majority of ppl I work with pay on their mortgage per month. Presently paying 1100p/m on rent (share apt with b/f) and have been doing so for the last 2 years so next to impossible for us to save.

Victor

Originally posted by M&M'sGer
Has anyone on here gotten a mortgage without having the 8%/10% of the total mortgage?

It's highly unlikely unless there is separate collateral. The 8-10% represents the stamp duty / safety margin the banks want to keep.