predestination

Woden

i couldn't find a muslim board so i thought this would have to do.

do muslims believe in predestination, if so whats the point in any one leaving good or bad lifes in the hope they'll get into heaven or what ever passes for it in that religion, if you predestined for a favourable afterlife you could be a mass murder yes?

data

watty

I think that is a simplistic view of "predestination".

If you had a "time machine" camcorder and viewed the tape in advance, the actions from your point of view are predestined. It is now "history" on your tape.

From the point of view of the video taped subjects, though, they have not yet made the decisions or committed the actions.

Assuming that God is omnicient, then he has the knowledge of all time. He is out side of time, therefore in one sense all is "predestined".

But in another sense it isn't.

Predestination, if you beleive in it, would be more than about if you get to Paradise, but also your actions before then.

If being a "mass murderer" was incompatible, then you would be "predestined not to be one.


Of course Christian Theology says (and actually Judaism, in a slightly different way) that the "mass murderer" could truly repent, be forgiven and go to Heaven, but that a "moral" person that rejects God utterly on death bead can't go to Heaven.

The Rabbi's unlike Medieval Christians, would bury a "Suicide" on holy graveyard, as they argued that the last dying thought might be repentance, and it is up to God to judge, not Man. I think many Christian theologians today would agree with that concept.

Though Catholic Church and Judaism may seem to preach a "Salvation by Good Works", if analysed closely you see that they really beleive the "Work" is on God's side (Grace) and that the "Good Works" are an evidence of repentance and faith in God. Some Extreme Fundamentalist/Evangelicals take the other extreme viewpoint and argue that no evidence of "Good Works" is actually needed, as it is solely the relationship with God that counts (Repentance & Faith).

Of course from a "common sense" viewpoint, Good Works with *NO* additional evidence of Repentance and Faith in God, and also an "alleged Born Again Repentance" with *NO* additional evidence of "good works" are both very suspicious!

But then again, in some cases an extreme Roman Catholic or Extreme Fundamentalist viewpoint may be the correct one as only God can know the truth.



Perhaps this is not much help on the Muslim question earlier, but should serve as some food for thought to put any other info you get in an overall framework.