Where should bassist stand on stage?

Cindy Love

Hey just wondering what way your bands set up on stage.Its just with two guitarists and a bassist should the bassist be extreme left,extreme right or in the middle.Ive also heard that bassists should stand next to bass drum(right in front of it).THanks

ferdi

on the stage, each musician should be able to see the other. bass player should probably stand near the drums i quess. it dosnt matter, i play bass and sing so i have to stand infront:dunno:

Arucard

anywhere on stage, as long as he has room to swing his bass. just in case you get some punk ass kid givin you ****, introduce him to the bridge of your bass, BAM!

stupid punk kids.

also, he needs room to swing so you can round off the set with a spot of instrumental baseball, just lob your crappiest guitar up for him (or her), and let him (or her) smash it to smithereens, however he (or her - what is it with you and women stan? - ...i want to be one - what?! - i want to be a woman - why do you wanna be a woman? - i want to have babies - you cant have babies! - dont you oppress me! - im not oppressin you, you havent got a womb! wheres the baby gonna gestate, you gonna keep it in a box?)
may please.

:ninja:

Eoin Madsen

It depends on how many people are in the band. I think the lead singer should stand centre of stage, so everyone else should be based around that (as symmetrically as possible). In a five piece band it usually looks best with the guitarists at the front extreme left and right, the singer front centre, the drummer rear centre, and the bassist rear/mid stage between the singer and one of the guitarists. Ideally the drummer might be a little offset to the opposite side too. On a small or awkwardly shaped stage this stuff never works out, so you have to improvise anyway.

From a sound perspective the bass amp should be roughly centre. A fair offset makes little difference, but if you place it extreme left or right on a large stage it will adversely affect the sound.

Doctor J

In my experience , in a two guitar line-up, the bass player should be next to the hi-hat. It's very important the bassist and drummer can communicate and see each other easily and a drummer will spend more time looking towards his/her hi-hats (especially during count-ins). Plant the bass amp in that area too because sound engineers don't like low-frequencies on stage and they're never going to put lots of bass through the monitors... ever, so if your bass player wants to hear whet they're playing frequently the only way to do so is to stand next to their amp, unfortunately.

Eoin Madsen

Originally posted by Doctor J
Plant the bass amp in that area too because sound engineers don't like low-frequencies on stage and they're never going to put lots of bass through the monitors... ever, so if your bass player wants to hear whet they're playing frequently the only way to do so is to stand next to their amp, unfortunately.

This is true! When you put lots of bass in the monitors it masks the vocal and guitar foldback, then the band want more of those and then the level on stage gets too loud and there's too much indirect out front, and the vocal starts to feed back etc etc. Part of the problem is too much bass in the bass amp, and not enough mids and highs. If you can't hear it turn up the mid, not the volume. Or better still, ask the engineer. But standing by the amp is a good bet when things are not ideal.

On the subject of amp volume, I reckon a good 50% of gigs that have poor sound are because the amps are too loud on the stage, and out of the engineer's control. After the soundcheck, volumes stay the same. It amazing how many bands will get on stage and just jack up their amps, defeating the purpose of the sound check entirely.

Doctor J

Originally posted by Eoin Madsen
It amazing how many bands will get on stage and just jack up their amps, defeating the purpose of the sound check entirely.

I wouldn't say it's amazing, I'd say it's indicative of the general lack of understanding of the purpose of the soundcheck. It's not just to get a good sound out front, it's to get a good sound on stage too. I've been to countless soundchecks where the band will play a full song, then the drummer will ask for a change in something and then they'll play another full song before someone esle asks for something and on and on and on it goes. If you can't tell what needs to be changed after a couple of bars you're in big trouble.

I think in a lot of cases the sound engineer and the band just don't talk to each other and a stand-offish relationship exists, where the band are scared to ask for something from the seemingly cranky sound engineer. Folk just need to be nicer to each other.

As regards bass volumes on stage, I play with little or no EQ jiggerypokery, I have some nice sounding basses which don't need any tweaking, save for one or two songs where I purposely change the EQ for a desired effect. I've noticed most engineers will do the mid-scoop on my tone before I even play a note, even when I ask them to do a DI from the line out post-EQ. A lot won't even run post-EQ without a lot of "negotiation" and just give their bass tone to whoever may be playing. Bear in mind that what comes back through the monitors is what the engineer has set up, so generally I found the bass sound much, much boomier through the monitors. Plus I've never played a gig where the support bands haven't changed the settings on the amp. Never.

I play fretless too, so it's essential I can hear what I'm doing, so if I've got to put the volume up a couple of notches on the amp to be heard, then so be it, the engineer should be well able to control the front of house sound despite it. The only place I've played recently where I could hear myself (and the bass drum) clearly was in Whelans, so kudos to the engineer there

Giblet

I made that mistake at one of my first gigs, jacking up the amp. But I had no choice, as I couldn't hear myself.

I leave the amp alone, but not ONCE have I heard myself through the monitor properly, no matter how much I tell the enginneer.

I work off the Drums mostly so thats my main priority.

Eoin Madsen

I agree with most of what you say Doctor J. The thing with bands playing an entire song and waiting to tell you what's not right at the end is just ridiculous - but it happens. And 90% of the bands I've engineered would do it too if I didn't stop them every few bars and ask them what the stage sound is like.

Part of the problem in a big venue is that all you have to go on in terms of the level on stage is what the band ask for. And often the band don't know what they actually need. For example, the amp is behind them and they can hear it from the cab, but they can't hear it in the monitor, so they ask for more guitar in the monitor. More guitar means masked vocal, so then they need more vocal, and we get into that whole cycle again. But the question was not: can you hear your guitar in the monitor?; it was: can you hear your guitar? It seems silly, but I've come across this problem more than once. Under less than ideal circumstances - like there being only one or two monitor mixes, somewhere with a low feedback threshold, or acoustically less than ideal - this causes big problems.

The soundcheck is more about getting a good sound on stage, because after the gig starts this becomes next to impossible. Whereas the FOH sound will invariably change and improve as the gig goes on anyway.

Regarding the standoffish thing, this can also a problem (how many times can I say "problem" in one post? ). If you tell a band what to do too forcibly, they won't work well with you. But if you don't take control, the whole thing comes apart from the onset. It can be a hard balance to strike, and it varies from band to band. Some guys are more easy going and receptive, and others have too many of their own (crazy?) ideas and preconceptions. What people often forget too is that what works in one venue may not work in another.

In terms of the engineer being easily able to work around you turning up your amp, this is not always true. You also have to look at the repercussions of you doing this. Just for example, the guitarist may feel that he's being drowned out on stage now, so he turns up his amp a few notches as well. I engineered a gig once where by the end of a band's set the only things coming through the FOH were the vocals and the drums. And you still couldn't hear the vocals clearly because the guitar and bass were drowning out everything. This would never happen in Whelan's - but the venue I was in was an acoustic nightmare and pretty much everything bounced around the ceiling and walls.

Regarding EQ for your own tone... If the whole band do this and all work together it's great. A dream come true in fact - and only a fool would pass up a chance to have their work cut out for them. But if the bassist has a great tone which isn't mixing with the guitars, you sometimes do have to argue a bit with him.

I better stop ranting and go to bed before I start repeating myself. :rolleyes:

Doctor J

Originally posted by Eoin Madsen
In terms of the engineer being easily able to work around you turning up your amp, this is not always true.

It's not always true but on occasions, sadly, it has been the only way I have been able to hear what I'm doing, despite asking to be able to hear myself from the engineer, not hear myself clearly, just hear myself at all. I don't know if you've ever tried to do a show when you can't hear what you're doing, it ain't pretty. I always make a point of starting off with my amp volume quite low, let the engineer do their stuff, but if it sucks, what choice does any musician have? To be honest, I think some engineers do a placebo sort of "Is that better?" without changing anything. I play drums and guitar too, and have done countless gigs on all instruments and it's basically tough shYt bass guitar in my experince. I'm also deep into my second year of a C&G Sound Engineering course so I can see the points on both sides and apply many of the engineering lessons learned into my bass/guitar playing/drumming.

The best thing an engineer can do, and it's not even an engineering thing, is just introduce themself to the band they're about to engineer. Simple, but entirely effective. I would say at least 80% of the gigs I've played the first thing the engineer has said is "Gimme the bass drum". It just sets things off in a very impersonal, uncomfortable manner. When I engineer anything I always make a point of taking a minute or two to just talk to the band, find out what they play, what they want to sound like and maybe suggest things and explain the reason why rather than just mumble orders like the guy in Voodoo.

If the band are happy it shows in their performance and that can make the crowd happy, and when the crowd are happy they spend big at the bar, which makes the venue owners happy, who then can make eveyone happy.

Eoin Madsen

Originally posted by Doctor J
The best thing an engineer can do, and it's not even an engineering thing, is just introduce themself to the band they're about to engineer. Simple, but entirely effective. I would say at least 80% of the gigs I've played the first thing the engineer has said is "Gimme the bass drum". It just sets things off in a very impersonal, uncomfortable manner. When I engineer anything I always make a point of taking a minute or two to just talk to the band, find out what they play, what they want to sound like and maybe suggest things and explain the reason why

I couldn't agree more! Though in practice, I've turned up at a venue with twenty or thirty people standing around and have had to go on to the stage and shout for bands to come up to me because I couldn't separate them from the multitude of hangers-on - and the gig organiser was nowhere to be found. If the engineer isn't forthcoming, try introducing yourself to him is all I can suggest. You know who he is, but he doesn't know who you are unless someone tells him, or until you get on the stage. I've had to do it myself once or twice as a musician.

I've played gigs where I couldn't hear myself, and it is impossible to work with. But that's what the soundcheck is for. If you can't hear yourself, walk up to a mic and say it. If it's not fixed next time you try and play, say it again. And again until it's fixed. And if it's not fixed when he asks if you're happy with the soundcheck, tell him you're not happy. If he doesn't ask this at the end of the soundcheck then you're right - feck him, and turn up the amp.

Genuinely, bass is the hardest thing to make heard on stage. Low frequencies are less audible at close range, and the mids in a bass guitar are masked by guitars very easily. As I said before, just turning it up in the monitors can screw up the rest of the monitor mix, and turning up the amp output can make it louder out front than it sounds on stage. I guess it's a matter of having your monitor Graphic set up right, and striking the balance between the amp being too loud or too quiet. Individual monitor mixes make all the difference, and a good venue is a lot more flexible. It's a shame that you can't rely on the sound engineer by default - but I've seen some shockingly bad engineers in my time. :rolleyes:

Doctor J

Aye, the guy in Whelans is one of the good ones. Very affable and knows his shyt too.

lofto

when im playen i like the bass player to be on my left, as this is to the side of my high hat. its easier to keep in contact with each other in this way, also a drummer faces this side of the stage automatically...... you'll find most bands have this set-up

tonyDeBrasco

doesn't really matter as long as he/she plays good... In my band the bass player is on the stage left...
http://www.student.dcu.ie/~ryanr29
is the address... comments on the site are welcomed...

Giblet

Yeh the pictures dont work, because the / after pics is the wrong way around. Also use thumbnails, You have like 4 megs of small pictures there

tonyDeBrasco

whos site is that you talk bout?

Giblet

em yours

tonyDeBrasco

um, all the links work for everyone else... and all the pics and they ain't 4 mbs of thumbnails... you check out any of the music?

funktastic

Decent effort on the site. Cant say the music's great, just sounds like another half assed dublin band with tracksuits n distortion pedals

ferdi

zing

feylya

Ferdi's right, Tony. There's 3 megs of thumbnails. Just loaded the "See us rocking" thumbnails and opera reported loading 3 megs. And could you do me a favour and stop pimping your band in so many threads. And I'm not talking about your sig either. I'm sure you're proud of the band but really, the sig is more than enough.

Giblet

Bullet in the head muther****a!

The bass line is right at least, at the start anyway.

dross

Yeah! Sleeves Mahoney kicks the ****...

...Out of you

Giblet

yes, that is right, obviously.

dross

Not taking the piss though you guys kick ass. You should save rock and roll caus it's faltering. You and the Murder of Crows, in Ireland, obviously.

joey#10

it doesnt matter! a lot of bassists move around on stage, its the personality of the person though i guess. Theres a dude in a band i like and he never stops jumpin around on stage, a total entertainer!