A Post TV Licence scam

vinnyfitz

Anyone else notice this scam?

On 16 March I bought a TV licence (over the phone).

Arrived in the post yesterday. It expires on 28 Feb next year.

So I paid for a 52 week licence but was only given a 50 week one. In other words I was overcharged by 4%. (Or €6)

Is this standard operating procedure I wonder? I suppose it only applies when you buy your first licence, not with renewals, but it is still absolutely wrong.

I bet this would not happen if An Post were a private company.
Do I have any redress?

parsi

Originally posted by vinnyfitz
Anyone else notice this scam?



I bet this would not happen if An Post were a private company.

ahem.. if you read through this forum you will see that most of the complaints are against _private_ companies...Tesco, , HMV etc etc

bruce wayne

when did your previous licence expire......my money's on the end of Feb......the Licence runs for 12 months not from when you paid for it !

vinnyfitz

Originally posted by bruce wayne
when did your previous licence expire......my money's on the end of Feb......the Licence runs for 12 months not from when you paid for it !

Answer: never.

I should have stressed - this is a new TV, new licence, new home, new customer.

Genghis

That happened me too. They obviously have it set up so that all licences sold in a particular month start at the start of that month. When I moved to my own home I left it a few months to get a licence. Hearing that the licence was to go up from the 1st September that year, I thought I'd leave it until the 31st August to buy one. It was only afterwards I realised that the expiry date was 31st of July.

I guess that An Post / RTE consciously do this to reflect the fact that most people don't pay up as soon as they should.

If it is any comfort, it only happens when you take out a new licence at a new address.

ShaneOC

I had the same issue. I bought my licence on the 29th of April and found that it was only valid until the end on March. I have written (twice) to the Minister for Communications but have only received acknowledgments so far (and I sent the first letter last May).

There is nothing on the Oasis site regarding licences being monthly.

As an aside, the crowd in the post office could (and should) have said, "Look, don't get the licence today, come back in two days and get it then".

vinnyfitz

I rang the GPO to give out about it and they said its stated in the legislation that it is a stated in the relevant brodcasting legislation that its based on the calendar month.

Its a small thing but it is really irritating and highhanded.

How can one complain effectively about this without going to a huge amount of trouble?

ShaneOC

Originally posted by vinnyfitz
its stated in the legislation that it is a stated in the relevant brodcasting legislation that its based on the calendar month.

I was under the impression that the Oasis web site is supposed to outline all legislation in an easy to understand manner. I could find no reference to the licence being on a monthly basis.

I disagree with it being a small thing. The govenment are busy advertising that we should be on the look out for rip offs and here they are providing us with a prime example of the very thing they are trying to stop.

AntiRip

what if you let it go out for a few months, until you get the knock on the door and get it then under a different name?

Thats what I do.

vinnyfitz

Originally posted by AntiRip
what if you let it go out for a few months, until you get the knock on the door and get it then under a different name?

Thats what I do.

And your point is?
:rolleyes:

Hyzepher

Motor tax is done the same way

Hyzepher

ixoy

Happened to me as well. Got it the 28th of August and it's only valid until the 31st of July. Bastards. There is NO excuse for this in these days of computer notifications. It sickens me that we're treated like this when we go to the trouble of paying for our television licenses when many others do not :mad:

GerardKeating

Originally posted by ShaneOC
the crowd in the post office could (and should) have said, "Look, don't get the licence today, come back in two days and get it then".

sometimes they do.....

AntiRip

Originally posted by vinnyfitz
And your point is?
:rolleyes:

My point is you get alot more than 52 weeks for your 150E

:rolleyes:

vinnyfitz

*sigh*

Yes I'm sure we all know loads of ways to save money by breaking the law.

The purpose of this thread is to explore how we can stop the state engaging in theft - not to "beat them by joining them".


On a separate note, I asked the Department of Communications to email me the Statutary Instrument which apparently regulates this rip-off.

24 hours later I'm still waiting for it despite one reminder so far.

Hyzepher's point about motor tax is interesting - can anyone confirm it? and/or point to other similar state sponsored scams?

ShaneOC

It is the same with Car tax, however it is widely known (or at least I know it ). I did not know about the TV licence being the same and it should be publicised.

Ripwave

Originally posted by vinnyfitz
Yes I'm sure we all know loads of ways to save money by breaking the law.

The purpose of this thread is to explore how we can stop the state engaging in theft - not to "beat them by joining them".

They're not engaging in theft - they sell a monthly license, which is a fairly typical "unit" for something that lasts a year. "They" would be perfectly within their rights to sell a yearly license, and then you'd have to pay for a full year if you bought a new telly for Christmas!

On a separate note, I asked the Department of Communications to email me the Statutary Instrument which apparently regulates this rip-off.

FFS, I hope they're not wasting my tax money on that sort of thing. Look it up yourself!

Hyzepher's point about motor tax is interesting - can anyone confirm it?

Have you ever looked at a motor tax sticker on a car? (Hint - they use a different colour for each month so that a Guard can spot at a glance if someone is driving with expired tax).

vinnyfitz

Jeez Rip
What side of bed did you get out of this afternoon?

I see it as theft but call it what you will. At best the tax collectors who developed this system are being lazy. I recognise the mentality whihc dreamed up this sort of regulation. It goes along lines like this:

I can't be bothered devising a system which lets people buy a licence from the day they want to 'cos it suits me to issue all subsequent licences on a monthly basis.
It's easier for the accounts people and I dreamed up this procedure before I knew computers could handle more subtle stuff.
I don't care if it means junior staff around here have huge peaks in their envelope stuffing activity once a month because, hey they are junior.
I don't care that the punter is being overcharged by up to 8% on their first year's licence because - guess what - I'm a monopolist and I write the laws so they just have to put up with it!

Why did I ask the official to send me over the SI?
Cos it's part of the terms of contract between him - the vendor representative and me - the purchaser,
'cos he must know where to look for it so he'll find it quicker tham me (Rip have you ever gone looking for an SI the name and ref number of which you do not know?),
'cos if he is wrong and it does not say what he claims it does I'll spend a long time doing a fruitless search and
'cos as he is a civil servant and already being paid for by my taxes its part of his job.
Oh and because he indicated he was perfectly happy to do so. Its just ain't arrived yet.

Ripwave

Originally posted by vinnyfitz
I see it as theft but call it what you will.

I see it as typical of the sort of moan you hear from people who aren't happy if they don't have something to complain about. You're talking about an average of €5.

Just as a matter of interest, you said that you bought the license on March 16th. When did you buy the TV?

At best the tax collectors who developed this system are being lazy. I recognise the mentality whihc dreamed up this sort of regulation. It goes along lines like this:

Blah, Blah, Blah. You left the most important one out (why amn't I surprised?). It's more cost efficient to issue monthly licenses.

Of course, this one is so stupid, I'm surprised that even you didn't leave it out:

I don't care if it means junior staff around here have huge peaks in their envelope stuffing activity once a month because, hey they are junior.

(Here's a hint - envelopes don't go stale. So they don't all have to be stuffed the day before they go in the post. And even way back when the regulations were made, they made machines to do that sort of thing).

Why did I ask the official to send me over the SI?
Cos it's part of the terms of contract between him - the vendor representative and me - the purchaser,
'cos he must know where to look for it so he'll find it quicker tham me

Yeah, sure, he must have to get it out 3 or 4 times a day to make check that he's doing his job right. He probabaly carries a copy in his wallet! Get Real, FFS.

(Rip have you ever gone looking for an SI the name and ref number of which you do not know?),

You mean like this?
8. (1) Every licence (not being a licence granted by way of renewal) comes into force on the day on which it was granted and, unless sooner revoked by the Minister under Regulation 13, continues in force until the end of the eleventh month after the month in which it was granted.

Sarsfield

Top man Ripwave

A little reality check is needed on this forum from time to time. There seem to be a lot of people just dying to jump on the ripoff bandwagon and grasp at anything that involves cost (especially if there is Government involvement).

There's enough genuine ripoffs taking place. Shame people are too busy looking for the bandwagon instead of the ripoffs.

vinnyfitz

Thanks Rip
I'm impressed with your searching skills. I acknowledge they seem better than my Google efforts which had failed me.
Now at least I know what the SI says.
I still don't agree with the mindset underlying it and it appears some other contributors here have a similar take.

I pointed out earler in the thread it's the principle and the attitude not the amount that annoys me. Where do they get this "11th month" thing? Why not just say "one calendar year"? There is no technical or practical justification for drafting rules in this way.

Ripwave

Originally posted by vinnyfitz
Thanks Rip
I'm impressed with your searching skills. I acknowledge they seem better than my Google efforts which had failed me.

All Irish Statutes and SI's are available here. (There's a link to it on www.gov.ie)

The reason that posts like this annoy me, is because this wasn't set up as a "ripoff" to generate private profit from the unfortunate consumer. While I don't have any particular problem with the notion of a TV license, I could understand someone arguing that the license itself is a ripoff, but arguing that licenses all expire on the last day of a month represents a ripoff is, frankly, petty, because changing it to be a particular date wouldn't actually save you any money. (Think about it - you still have to pay the full license fee. Unless you planned to move bewtween March 1st and March 16th next year, and were honest enough to buy a new, full license for the two weeks that you weren't covered, then changing the end date of your license wouldn't save you any money).