Seeing the flop

Decker

What percentage of your stack are you willing to pay to see the flop with a marginal (what I would consider marginal anyway) eg. K6o.

Over the last few tourments I've played, I try to see the flop cheaply with a marginal holding as above eg 1/40th of my stack, though normally only if I'm middle or late position.

Am I learning bad habbits taking a punt on these type of hands?

Alex

Davey Devil

It's all about preferance and the type of game you play. With a full table K,6o is going in the scrapper everytime for me - unless I'm in late postion and I want to rob the blinds with a raise.

henbane

A call in late position is always a weak play. Remember people in early position should be playing better hands than you and will know you're limping in. If you hit a K - you may still have to drop it. Unless you hit 2 pair with that kind of a hand, you can kiss your chips goodbye.

Every blind you post that you don't have to is money in someone else's pocket unless you have a good shot at getting it back.

But I'm generally tight like a very tight thing most of the time. Except for that time in the fitz I called your raise with 2s in the pocket and flopped a set.

Spiritus

You're learning bad habits

Lafortezza

Hi Hyezpheyr!
I'd say the playing K6 in late position is always a bad idea. Any King comes up and someone bet it then your kicker is screwed. Its fairly unlikely that a six will come on the boards with out other dangerous overcards.

Personally I'd be more likely to play a marginal hand like 4-5 suited instead of K-6, when I'm in late position and its not going to cost me much to limp in. If there's several callers before me I'd guess they'd be play hands like Q9 or better, so if the flop comes small and scrubby I may have a chance of betting it. Only when its cheap to see the flop and the blinds are fairly passive and unlikely to raise.

dropsy

I also think that K6o should be scrapped every time even on small blind with no raise. It'll get you into trouble more times than not if a 6 or K comes on the flop.

You're definitely picking up bad habits by trying to limp into flops just to see if it hits your hole cards. Best advice I ever read about poker was from Lou Krieger - 'Play selective but play agressive.'

I'd also highly recommend Lou Kriegers book 'Hold Em Excellence' - it has an excellent start chart on the inside back cover that lists all possible hands and gives his opinion on whether you should play them from early, middle or late position.

D

Lafortezza

Originally posted by dropsy
I also think that K6o should be scrapped every time even on small blind with no raise. It'll get you into trouble more times than not if a 6 or K comes on the flop.
D

I never fold when I'm in the small blind if it has gone around the table with no raises, and only the big blind is left to act. Its only costing you half the big blind to see a flop, and even when you're small stack it might be worth it, when you're small stack you have to take more risks after all.

I called the big blind at the last table in the Monday €110 game with 7-2 offsuit, I was reasonably small stack but already had half a bet in, as the small blind.
I got a flush on the turn and since nobody else had a spade I won the pot.

You do have to be careful though. The vast majority of marginal or weak hands preflop should be dropped. If you are in late position and you think that none of that players to act after you will raise then sometimes its worth calling the blinds and limping in. Not a good habit to get into but with something like suited low connectors a bad flop for everyone else might be a good flop for you.

mewso

Before you call any hand ask yourself one question. Am I willing to call if there is a raise before the flop. Obviously not as important if you are in late position but a question you should always ask yourself.

dropsy

Originally posted by lafortezza
I never fold when I'm in the small blind if it has gone around the table with no raises, and only the big blind is left to act. ........ Not a good habit to get into but with something like suited low connectors a bad flop for everyone else might be a good flop for you.

Dunno Laforteza .... I've just got in trouble too many times by taking that approach with hands like K6o. Small suited connectors (say 56h) is a far superior hand to K6o though - I'd consider calling with those from any mid or late position - would still dump the K6o from any position - the one exception might be if table folded to me in SB and I know that BB was really tight - then a raise might be the play - but never a call IMO.

Lafortezza

Originally posted by dropsy
would still dump the K6o from any position - the one exception might be if table folded to me in SB and I know that BB was really tight - then a raise might be the play - but never a call IMO.

I suppose if you're in the small blind and it hasn't been raised, then it would depends on what type of player the big blind is. If he's the type to raise with pretty much anything to drive players out and maybe steal the blinds/calls then I'd probably throw a marginal like 45suited or K6 away.
But if he's a fairly passive player who, unless he has a strong holding, will tap the table and see a flop then I'd pretty much always call when I'm small blind.

As always it depends on the situation, my stack, and what I think of the players around me.

DapperGent

For me limping with marginal hands always depends on a few factors:

First I'd only do it if the blinds are insignificant in comparison to my stack, 1/40 or less and I'm in late enough position and I think from the players behind me are the sort to raise only with premium hands.

Then you need to have a look at how big the pots are getting, is the table raising and calling and frequently generating big pots in comparison to the blinds? If it is and you're allowed to limp with K6o it may be a winning play over time.

Say you limp with a marginal at 50 a pop but you have a reasonable expectation of pots getting up to 1000 or 2000 you can limp a lot and will hit a winner eventually. Plus given that you're in late position you can always have a go a representing on the flop if it's checked to you. But I only do this if I'm drunk.