Working long hours and for free?

RicardoSmith

Why is it these days most employers expect you to work extra hours and even extra days for free. I recently swtich from contracting to a full time job and the extra hours are a real pain in the butt. How do you all deal with it when you're asked to come in for extra hours, days etc? What makes it worse are the others in the office who are working 10 hours days and working ever second weekend. I only work a few hours extra a week and it make me look like I'm leaving early even when I've worked an extra hour.

vinnyfitz

From a legal rights point of view check out the facts here

RicardoSmith

Originally posted by vinnyfitz
From a legal rights point of view check out the facts here

Its a good link, but by the time you'd need to produce that info, I think you'd be shown the door. Its a culture that has developed in the IT world especially and I'm tired of it.

jd

Originally posted by RicardoSmith
Its a good link, but by the time you'd need to produce that info, I think you'd be shown the door. Its a culture that has developed in the IT world especially and I'm tired of it.

I had enough of it too, a few years ago.. and you still see people boasting about these kind of heroics..
Won't help you, unless, perhaps, you slip it on your boss's desk but till a good read, ..
Peopleware

The effects of pressure
People under pressure don't think any faster.

Extended overtime is a productivity-reduction tactic.

Short bursts of pressure and even overtime may be a useful tactic as they focus people and increase the sense that the work is important, but extended pressure is always a mistake.

Perhaps managers make so much use of pressure because they don't know what else to do, or are daunted by how difficult the alternatives are.

Terrible suspicion: The real reason for use of pressure and overtime may be to make everyone look better when the project fails

Nuttzz

The problem you have is that either the management set unrealistic deadlines for projects or the staff have bad work practises. In my experience it stems from mangement who say we need project X completed by date Y so do you mind if you all could put in the extra hours just to get this finished for this very important client. Of course when project X is finished project A comes along and the cycle starts all over again.

ask you employer for your OWT1 form and make sure you keep copies of it. TBH if you colleauges want to work 10 hour days & weekends let them

incidently are you being paid for the OT or is it FOC to the employer?
[edit] i see its foc (look at the title dumb ass) [edit]

http://www.oasis.gov.ie/employment/employment_rights/employment_working_time_records.html

BigEejit

Originally posted by Nuttzz
The problem you have is that either the management set unrealistic deadlines for projects

99% of the problem, a managment axiom "aim for the sun and you'll hit the moon", they want you to work youre arse off and you will get a slap on the back for it.

Originally posted by Nuttzz
or the staff have bad work practises.

maybe where you are making a product ... but i think that its headcount/money related
in customer service jobs people are having the piss taken ... managers want to look good and these days the way to look good is to save money. If they can keep the headcount down then they look good, they dont care that you have to work crazy hours ... and if you are working O/T for free then its time to have a chat with your manager, or find somewhere else

Nuttzz

Actually I had been in the same situation a few years ago.

I was working 9-5 in walkinstown however with the nature of the work I didn’t always leave until 6. I was travelling by bus from the north side as well.

One day the boss calls me into his office as says, I'm not happy that you are late some mornings (5-10 minutes) and I told him it was because of the buses and I said that a lot of the time I’m here till 6, he told me that "no one asked you to work till 6 but we expect you here at 9am"

From that day on I got up 1/2 an hour earlier every morning so that I would get in at 9am or earlier and walked out the door at 5pm regardless of what needed to be done. That continued for 3 years until I got another job.

When your working day is over its over, if others want to work for free let them. If they (co-workers) pull you on it simply state your working hours from your contract and if they want to stay behind let them. Once one starts to leave "early" (i.e. on time) then other will follow quick enough, there isn’t anything a manager can say to you about it.

slave1

well the way i look at it is......

if my workload gets mad and it looks like hours are gonna be necessary I cut this off at the pass by saying to myself, either I can't do my job or there's a resource issue.

I know I can do my job so obviously its a resource issue and take this topic to my manager, I then ask him/her to priortise my workload to achieve the most important tasks DURING THE WORK DAY.

Having said that, I'm pretty sure if you are in middle mgt level or well paid that there's a line in your contract that says sommit like...from time to time commersurate to your position you will be required to discharge extra hours to complete tasks...

If other people want to work longer hours than you, let them, they either can't stand up for themselves or are inefficient in their job

at the end of the day of you're gonna quote the legal side of things you're out the door

pork99

I also was in exactly your position Nuttzz a few years ago. I was usually not leaving before 8 in the evening (unpaid overtime) and still got a reprimand for turning up at 9.30-ish in the morning. I threw a bit of a wobbly. They backed down.

A bit of flexibility on both sides is good for morale and productivity.

Paid by the hour contractor is the way to go.
Being a salaried emplyee is a bit of a mug's game. Unless you are in public service/big corporation with a strong union. Even then it does not suit everyone, such jobs suit people who like predictability, dislike challenges or stimulation.

I remember in a previous job looking at a recruitment website where they laid out the supposed advantages and disadvantages of contractor vs "permanent" employee. I realised that I actually had all the disadvantages of both with none of the advantages of either. EG job security - no, employer sponsored training - no, opportunities for promotion - no and so forth. Definate sign it was time to move on.

Anyway there is no such thing as a permanent job these days maybe with the exception of where the taxpayer is subsidising you, for now anyway

zedsDeadBaby

I used to work for a company where i was expected to work long hours.
I was in at 9am and never left before 10pm for 6 domonths. Working weekends as well. I like the work so it wasnt too bad. Then one Friday i had leave at 5:30pm (my finishing time) to collect something that i needed from a shop that closed at 6.
On my way out the door i was asked by my manager where i was going. I explained and was told that the code i was writing wasnt finished yet.
I then poited out the time and that that was the time i was supposed to leave at.
Then an arguement and i left anyway.
Following Monday i was brought into the managers office and told my conduct was bad, so i explained about the hours i usually put in and that if they wanted to fire me for leaving at 5:30 then i'ld see him in court.
After that i NEVER worked past 5:30pm for the next year.
I have decided that if you goive 150% then people eventually see it as 100%.
Then if you only give 140% you are slacking off.

Now i'm a contractor and i make damned sure that i charge for each and every hour i work.
I add up the hours in the month and divide by 7.5.

Sometimes they question this and say that a day is a day.
Its not, its 7.5 hours and i stick to my guns.

spongebob

I also worked for one of those companies which expected everyone in at 9Am irrespective of how late they stayed in the previous night ....and had the cheek to carpet you if you were 5 minutes late.

I got into the habit of mailing the personnel dept (all of em) if I was ever there after 6 to warn them in writing I would be a tad late in the morning, I also ensured my voicemail was up to date before I left the office that night.

As I was 'warning them in writing' before they could do me the esame way the personnel bods were completely confused.

They could not tell me to stop mailing them if I was late (coz they had gone home themselves )

They would not tell me to stop working after 6 as I never sent a mail before then

Some companies take the piss about working hours , they deserve the same treatment back if you are working your 40 .

M

Our man in Havana

There must be at least a 11 hour break between the end of one shift and the start of another.

Eg. If you finish work at midnight the earliest that you can work again is 11am the following morning.

zedsDeadBaby

The problem is not your rights but what will happen if you try to enforce your rights.
If you don't work all the hours god sends for a company they might perceive you to be 'Not a team player' etc.
Then no pay rise, no bonus and possibly you gone during next round of redundancies.
And how do you prove this is put on you because you would not work 60 hours a week?
You can't.
When i was full time my boss told us that we had 4 weeks to finish a project. And that if we did there would be a bonus.
We worked 18 - 24 (yes 24) hours a day for 4 weeks. Nearly killing ourselves. I lost a whole stone in this time.
We finished with an alnighter on the last night too and the project was delivered on time.
We got £1000 each for a bonus.
Now 4 weeks with an average of 10 hours extra a day = 40 hours extra + 8 weekend days.
This comes to about a months extra work FOR £1000.
And the best laugh is that the management thought they were being so good about it.

Become a contractor and they try their best not to have you in for much overtime.
When you are in you get paid for it. Best of both worlds.