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Zataochi
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23-03-2004 2:13am#1
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Originally posted by goo
Speaking of unnecessary, the animation scene in Kill Bill was completely uninspired and totally useless. It's a fun film otherwise, so I thought that was a real shame.
actually i found it to be a great tribute to the anime genre and the japanese cinematography. it was also a nice creative touch turning the theatrical film into an animated film. both can be very expressive but in different ways.
it was actually things like those that i liked about kill bill.. the anime bit, the girl from battle royale, tribute to bruce lee and the yellow tracksuit..
i'm sure there was a john woo pisstake somewhere in there too
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Right, well I finally saw Zatoichi the other day.
Spoilers are to follow, so if you've not seen the film, bugger off...
I honestly had to leave it a while to sink in before I bothered replying here. I wasn't sure how I felt about it at first, but I think it's finally settled now, so I can speak about it.
First of all, it wasn't what I expected at all! And I had a pretty good idea what it was about beforehand, and how music played a great part. But it was still quite different to what I had imagined in a lot of ways. I think that it wasn't so much a Zatoichi story, as it was about the Geishas, which I felt kinda uncomfortable with at first, but then I felt that it was quite a fantastic and tragic story.
I also loved the tap-dancing scene at the end!
A lot of people here seemed to either love it, or hate it, but I think it might be a recurring theme that I've seen in Dolls also. Not specifically a musical number like the tap-dancing scene, but if you've seen the film Dolls, it starts off with a traditional Japanese puppet show as a kind of narrative to the plot of the film. And I think that Kitano is showing us that it is indeed a preformance peice, and the way a lot of music throughout the film was made by the ambient sounds, and sound effects, like when he's walking down a road and there's a beat made by four men plowing. It's slightly similar to Lars Von Trier's "Dancer In The Dark" in that sense, except without any musical numbers. In fact, if I was to classify Zatoichi, I'd call it a musical without musical numbers. And while all this sums up together to say "Yes! This is all a preformance." it doesn't take away from the narrative, but gives it more emotion and impact. Almost like it includes the veiwer as an audience member in a live stage production, and I think that's the reason why the endings of both Dolls and Dancer In The Dark hit me like a tonne of bricks, and why I felt so unsettled by the story of the Geishas in Zatoichi. It's a staggering peice of work altogether.
Now, I'd just like to say now, any comparison with Kill Bill is completely unjustified and just an utter non-point altogether.Originally posted by Bazz
So what if Tarentino recycles used ideas to make his movies, who doesn't. All directors borrow ideas from somewhere, it's just tarentino does it with immence style and charisma..
I'm sorry Bazz, but do you have any clue what your talking about? Because from that sentance it seems as though you've no really no idea of what myself, and a few others, are talking about on this subject.
You say recycling and borrowing ideas, and you come off as saying that no director can be in any way original. That's incredibly shallow, but moreso you just point out that you still cannot grasp just how much Tarantino rips-off. You seem to think that I'm just picking him up on a rather blatant reference?
Let me put it this way...
Here's a little story:
A gang tries to pull a heist, only the cops show up and have them surrounded, and there's a nice big shoot-out, and one of the gang-members is injured. They all make it back to an abbandoned ware-house, and they figure out that they've been set-up, and that one of their number is a cop! They point the finger at each other, and point guns around, while one member of the gang is looking after the injured man, and sticking up for him. In the end it turns out that it was the guy who was shot in the stomach who was the cop all along!!! *GASP*
Does this sound familiar? Surely you must know it!
Why it is of course the 1987 Hong Kong thriller City On Fire starring Chow Yun Fat and Danny Lee!
Now, do you understand the sheer magnitude of Tarantino's plagiarism?0 -
Originally posted by AngelWhore
Right, well I finally saw Zatoichi the other day.
Spoilers are to follow, so if you've not seen the film, bugger off...
I honestly had to leave it a while to sink in before I bothered replying here. I wasn't sure how I felt about it at first, but I think it's finally settled now, so I can speak about it.
First of all, it wasn't what I expected at all! And I had a pretty good idea what it was about beforehand, and how music played a great part. But it was still quite different to what I had imagined in a lot of ways. I think that it wasn't so much a Zatoichi story, as it was about the Geishas, which I felt kinda uncomfortable with at first, but then I felt that it was quite a fantastic and tragic story.
I also loved the tap-dancing scene at the end!
A lot of people here seemed to either love it, or hate it, but I think it might be a recurring theme that I've seen in Dolls also. Not specifically a musical number like the tap-dancing scene, but if you've seen the film Dolls, it starts off with a traditional Japanese puppet show as a kind of narrative to the plot of the film. And I think that Kitano is showing us that it is indeed a preformance peice, and the way a lot of music throughout the film was made by the ambient sounds, and sound effects, like when he's walking down a road and there's a beat made by four men plowing. It's slightly similar to Lars Von Trier's "Dancer In The Dark" in that sense, except without any musical numbers. In fact, if I was to classify Zatoichi, I'd call it a musical without musical numbers. And while all this sums up together to say "Yes! This is all a preformance." it doesn't take away from the narrative, but gives it more emotion and impact. Almost like it includes the veiwer as an audience member in a live stage production, and I think that's the reason why the endings of both Dolls and Dancer In The Dark hit me like a tonne of bricks, and why I felt so unsettled by the story of the Geishas in Zatoichi. It's a staggering peice of work altogether.
Now, I'd just like to say now, any comparison with Kill Bill is completely unjustified and just an utter non-point altogether.
I'm sorry Bazz, but do you have any clue what your talking about? Because from that sentance it seems as though you've no really no idea of what myself, and a few others, are talking about on this subject.
You say recycling and borrowing ideas, and you come off as saying that no director can be in any way original. That's incredibly shallow, but moreso you just point out that you still cannot grasp just how much Tarantino rips-off. You seem to think that I'm just picking him up on a rather blatant reference?
Let me put it this way...
Here's a little story:
A gang tries to pull a heist, only the cops show up and have them surrounded, and there's a nice big shoot-out, and one of the gang-members is injured. They all make it back to an abbandoned ware-house, and they figure out that they've been set-up, and that one of their number is a cop! They point the finger at each other, and point guns around, while one member of the gang is looking after the injured man, and sticking up for him. In the end it turns out that it was the guy who was shot in the stomach who was the cop all along!!! *GASP*
Does this sound familiar? Surely you must know it!
Why it is of course the 1987 Hong Kong thriller City On Fire starring Chow Yun Fat and Danny Lee!
Now, do you understand the sheer magnitude of Tarantino's plagiarism?
Ohh, my, I'm soo sorry for questioning your quite vast and encyclopedic knowledge of Quentin Tarentino and his career.
One thing you need to know lady, is that I will take you to school..
I bought City On Fire on video six years ago you idiot, I know where he got his inspiration from. Don't tell me that directors don't reuse other filmmakers ideas..
Stealing is for hacks, borrowing is for the clever
No one claims that Reservoir Dogs is an "original" story.. So why are you referring to it??? Don't forget Au Revoir Les Enfants,
Ok, so you are telling me that Tarentino is not original???... Why don't you actually watch a Tarentino film and pay attention..
Boo-Hoo, Reservoir Dogs plot and story was borrowed from an Hong Kong film.. Big swing!!
It's not the story that Tarentino is lauded for, it's the characters he creates, the original dialogue. What writers use dialogue and develope character lingo like tarentino does?? Who?? Who??.. NO ONE. That's who!
He has had a bigger influence on budding filmmakers AND established filmmakers than any other filmmaker over the last ten years.
It's not merely a "heist" movie it's about a botched robbery and its aftermath, colourfully written in vulgar ganster vernacular and well played by a terrific cast. A TERRIFIC cast..
It's the subliminal intricacies that he uses throughout his films. Nothing is random. Everything is meticulously though about. He knows he's borrowing ideas, that's what makes Quentin Tarentino so special. and to paraphrase the man himself, "I make movies for myself. I don't make movies for a faceless blob out there. I am my own audience"..0 -
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