Dublin-Monaghan Bombings

Johnny 5

This hasn't been discussed before for some reason.

So who did it?

It obvious it was a British Army/UVF collaboration. The report into it was a whitewash which left its conclusions vague for the deliberate reason as to not offend Britain.

I think it's an insult to those who lost their lives that the FF government isn't doing more in this time of relative peace in seeking out who perpetrated these crimes.

sceptre

Originally posted by Johnny 5
This hasn't been discussed before for some reason.

The search button is a wonderful thing:)

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=130276&highlight=monaghan

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=76705&highlight=monaghan

Still, might be time for another one. I'd like to know where an entire roomful of missing documents has gone for a start (Bertie's making excuses but there doesn't seem to be anyone actually looking for them).

Johnny 5

Your right Nevertheless, One of those got 7 replies, the other got none, and for an event of such magnitude the silence is deafening.

For Bertie to make excuses on behalf of the British government to the people of Ireland makes him no more what Blair is to Bush.

gurramok

Will there be public inquiry though like the bloody sunday one without the huge costs involved.
The idea of state terror having a hand in murdering innocent people might not wash with some people hence their silence

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

pork99

Originally posted by gurramok
Will there be public inquiry though like the bloody sunday one without the huge costs involved.

Is there any point to that? I mean if MI5 were involved, well you would be hard put to find out what those guys were up to last week never mind 30 years ago. What hard evidence is there?

I think any "British Army involvement" was more likely by rogue elements where their membership of the UDA or UVF overlapped with membership of the UDR or RUC reserves.

I think people tend to underestimate what loyalist paramilitaries were capable of on their own, from "Loyalists" by Peter Taylor;

I asked David Ervine, who was a senior member of the UVF in Belfast at the time, about these bombings, although he himself had nothing to do with them. He said they were 'returning the serve'... In fact he was only being brutally honest, as that was how the bombing would have been seen by many loyalists who had witnessed the IRA wreak havoc in their own areas and kill dozens of their civilians. 'I think there were many within the Unionist community who felt, and I may have felt it too, "Now you know how we feel."

gurramok

Is there any point to that? I mean if MI5 were involved, well you would be hard put to find out what those guys were up to last week never mind 30 years ago. What hard evidence is there?

An inquiry would reveal of there is any truth at all over collusion allegations.
30 years on, some of those MI5 guys would still be alive and be able to testify at such an inquiry.

I think any "British Army involvement" was more likely by rogue elements where their membership of the UDA or UVF overlapped with membership of the UDR or RUC reserves.

*think* is that we will never know the truth of elements whether they are rogue or not without an independent inquiry.

I think people tend to underestimate what loyalist paramilitaries were capable of on their own, from "Loyalists" by Peter Taylor

What i find odd is that Loyalist activity in ROI nearly ceased for at least 15-20 yrs after said atrocity.
If they had the capability, why did they suddenly cease bombings in ROI considering that not a single person was charged over the Dublin/Monaghan bombings thereafter?

pork99

Originally posted by gurramok
30 years on, some of those MI5 guys would still be alive and be able to testify at such an inquiry.

First catch your hare!

able to yes, being required to is a different matter

I think a UK court would find it very difficult to get to such people in front of them on this never mind one in this country.

As I am sure you are aware some British and Irish gov info is kept secret for 30 years - the 30 year rule. In the UK I believe there are also govt papers covered by 70 and 100 year rules. I would imagine information on something as sensitive as British security services involvement in an atrocity like this would be kept where no court can get it for a long time to come.

If a record is judged too sensitive by a government department then it can apply to "extend closure" until 40, 75 or even 100 years have passed.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/uk/2000/uk_confidential/1081675.stm

Let's suppose the bombs were entirely MI5's idea, actual execution of any plan would be carried out by members of a police special branch, the Army Intelligence Corps or army special forces. MI5 are basicaly desk jockeys.

It could be nonsense but I have read that where MI5 or MI6 need to do anything "beyond the pale" they will use their police or military subsiduaries to make the arrangements. Basically they hire a third party to do the break-in, assassination whatever. That way nothing can ever be traced back to the intelligence services (all that smacks of bad spy fiction though).