minister@justice.ie

egan007

Dear Minister
I am sure that i will not get an acknowledgement as this is not the first mail i have sent with out reply. This time however I do not want a reply, I do however want you to seriously consider the decision you have made to allow US secret service to use arms in this country.

Imagine the consequences, if not for the people, then for your political position, if a civilian is shot dead. This is a situation you are inviting. The way to slove a problem of someone getting shot is not to introduce more guns.

As a citizen of Ireland in my mid 20's- I am very concerned, and doubt your courage at this time. Please prove me wrong.
If there is a threat to Bush then he has caused it himself, it is not our job to protect him, so while such a threat exists he should not be invited to this country.

My vote in the next election will better be served on someone with the courage to be different, and has the courage to stand up to what's wrong and not follow the crowd.

Yours

Beruthiel

I just sent this to him:

Dear Minister

I am writing to you to express my deep concern at the fact you intend to allow President George W Bush into our country armed and if he wishes to open fire on our people.
How can you, as our Minister take this step? We are a country that has tried to avoid guns at all costs and you are now willing to let an outsider come into our country carrying them. I, as a concerned mother am exceeding distressed at this news. If Mr. Bush feels his life is in danger, he has only himself to blame and should stay out of our country if he considers his life to be threatened.
You are the Irish Minister for Justice because you were voted in at the peoples wishes, you now have the obligation of carrying out the peoples wishes, this means NO GUNS. You are here to protect Irish citizens not put their lives in danger.
I will not be voting for you at the next election.

Yours

Gillie

Well said Ruthie.
You think you'll get a reply?

Morpheus

but it IS our job to protect him, The Irish State offers this protection to ALL foreign dignitaries that travel here, same as US security forces protect OUR politicians when they are on state visits.

we havent got enough trained personel to protect him, other than army (who are high profile in their uniforms, not under cover agents) im sure the special branch will liase with the us officials, remember 700 in his entourage doesnt mean 700 armed guards!!! there will be about 50 - 100 with weapons the rest will look after his every whim, liase with irish forces and security personel, help organise the protection and visits, look after his supplies and transport, meet with businesses, schools, colleges and other interested parties, etc.

We are a high risk country BECAUSE we dont have secure enough borders, we are open to refugees and immigrants from the sth africa, america, eu countrys, our own nutjobs, middle and far east and SOME are extremists who the gardai watch, but they will need to work with the US intelligence agencies to tie it all down.

im glad hes coming, so long as they dont get immunity (and they wont!!!) im happy.

Sparks

Originally posted by Beruthiel
We are a country that has tried to avoid guns at all costs

*sniff*
I wish people wouldn't be so indiscriminate....

I will not be voting for you at the next election.

You're in his constituency?

egan007

Originally posted by Morphéus
but it IS our job to protect him, The Irish State offers this protection to ALL foreign dignitaries that travel here, same as US security forces protect OUR politicians when they are on state visits.

we havent got enough trained personel to protect him, other than army (who are high profile in their uniforms, not under cover agents) im sure the special branch will liase with the us officials, remember 700 in his entourage doesnt mean 700 armed guards!!! there will be about 50 - 100 with weapons the rest will look after his every whim, liase with irish forces and security personel, help organise the protection and visits, look after his supplies and transport, meet with businesses, schools, colleges and other interested parties, etc.

We are a high risk country BECAUSE we dont have secure enough borders, we are open to refugees and immigrants from the sth africa, america, eu countrys, our own nutjobs, middle and far east and SOME are extremists who the gardai watch, but they will need to work with the US intelligence agencies to tie it all down.

im glad hes coming, so long as they dont get immunity (and they wont!!!) im happy.

Ok conceding that we protect everyone in the state - if we admit that we are not capable of protecting someone entering the state - the outcome should be for them not to come rather that bringing their own security.

Then the issue becomes "we have inadequate security force for foreign heads" rather than "a foreign force looking for the right to fire a gun here"

leeroybrown

I wonder how hard McDowell is to get by e-mail. No doubt it's just a secretary filing all these into a folder labeled "Bush Complaints - Delete".

Quite a large percentage of politicians are quite dificult to react via e-mail (some have been known to get their e-mail printed and then posted to them ).

Sparks

Originally posted by Morphéus
[We are a high risk country BECAUSE we dont have secure enough borders, we are open to refugees and immigrants from the sth africa, america, eu countrys, our own nutjobs, middle and far east and SOME are extremists who the gardai watch, but they will need to work with the US intelligence agencies to tie it all down.

Dammit. I knew not treating the rest of the world as terrorist scum wouldn't pay off in the long run :rolleyes:

im glad hes coming, so long as they dont get immunity (and they wont!!!) im happy.

And you know they won't have immunity how?

bonkey

I'm wondering how many of you wrote to complain the last time a US president had armed guards in this country?

That would have been....let me see....oh, yes, during every prior US PResidential visit I believe.

jc

egan007

Originally posted by bonkey
I'm wondering how many of you wrote to complain the last time a US president had armed guards in this country?

That would have been....let me see....oh, yes, during every prior US PResidential visit I believe.

jc

ok lots of apples and oranges flying around here
different policies, and different climate make all the difference.
i.e. ichy fingers

Gillie

Originally posted by bonkey
I'm wondering how many of you wrote to complain the last time a US president had armed guards in this country?

That would have been....let me see....oh, yes, during every prior US PResidential visit I believe.

jc

Maybe we didn't mind the last few POTUS's that came over.
Maybe their was less chance of a protest.
Maybe we just dont like GW!

uberwolf

Originally posted by Gillie
Maybe we didn't mind the last few POTUS's that came over.
Maybe their was less chance of a protest.
Maybe we just dont like GW!

point being the personality may have changed, the policy hasn't

MeatProduct

I wonder if there is another way to get the minister to notice? Letters and e-mails aren't enough since it's not public enough. I'm sure with the imagination and originality the people of this country have shown in the past we could come up with some way of getting the ministers attention.

If I'm talking crap and not atune to peoples thoughts please just vote me into government.

Nick

Morpheus

damnit, you "guys" always have answers, pity they make NO SENSE!!!

so from now on ireland refuses to let high profile heads of state enter the country with their own armed guard even though theyve done it in the past, just because i minority of the population dislike the guy?

duh... now why didnt i think of that?

Sparks

Some good news for a change

The Garda Commissioner, Noel Conroy, has said two secret service agents who will travel with US President, George W Bush, on his visit here have not been granted immunity from prosecution in the event that they discharge their firearms.

Mr Conroy was speaking at a two-day European Chiefs of Police conference in Dublin dealing with the terrorist threat in the wake of the Madrid bombings.

Mr Conroy said the gardaí were in charge of security for the visit of Mr Bush and that anyone suspected of being involved in a criminal offence would be investigated and prosecuted if necessary.

MeatProduct

Mr Conroy said the gardaí were in charge of security for the visit of Mr Bush and that anyone suspected of being involved in a criminal offence would be investigated and prosecuted if necessary.

That means the Gradai will be arresting young Mr. Bush once he enters the country. War crimes count as a ciminal offence don't they? That would be something though, to see the Gardai arrest Bush for war crimes.

Nick

dahamsta

I don't see why anyone would have a problem with Bush's security personnel having weapons. Some of our security forces have weapons too, and although I'll grant you they seem to be a bit trigger happy, I rather think I'd prefer to have them around to deal with trigger happy crims -- who don't seem to have much of a problem getting weapons themselves.

Like him or hate him, Bush is the leader of one of the most powerful countries in the world, and ripe for assassination attempts. We simply couldn't afford to provide the level of security he needs. By all means, object to McDohell granting them immunity for any incidents happening on our turf, but asking him to somehow disallow weapons is not just unreasonable, it's plain silly in my view.

Sparks, that's what Conroy says, but you'd have to wonder what kind of deals McDohell and Bertie have arranged on the QT.

adam

Villain

Originally posted by Sparks
*sniff*
I wish people wouldn't be so indiscriminate....

You know you have to get a licence for those weapons don't you!!!

Sparks

Originally posted by dahamsta
Sparks, that's what Conroy says, but you'd have to wonder what kind of deals McDohell and Bertie have arranged on the QT.
adam [/B]

Indeed. My cynicism regarding those two does have limits but they're somewhere about the level reached when the story is "Bertie's really one of the lizard people that rule the world"....

Sparks

Originally posted by irish1
You know you have to get a licence for those weapons don't you!!!

Yup, got those...

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

dahamsta

Originally posted by Sparks
Indeed. My cynicism regarding those two does have limits but they're somewhere about the level reached when the story is "Bertie's really one of the lizard people that rule the world"....

Heh. Of course that's not true -- Bertie's a snake, not a lizard.

(Bertie ruling the world. Now that's a scary concept.)

adam

Sparks

Originally posted by daveirl
The same parties who were saying we were under threat due to the Bush visit are now saying he shouldn't be allowed weapons, which basically means they recognise a threat but don't recognise Bush's right to defend himself.

More accurately, perhaps, to say that they don't think much of Bush's ability to tell a threat from a civilan protestor, or of the Secret Service's ability to select an appropriate response.

MeatProduct

I'll be going up to protest when that gun-slinger comes. Since I'm worried about my security while I'm there I will of course be bringing my personal snipers and commando units. If Bush comes near me that will be deemed a threat to my personal security and my "lads" will naturally have to take a few shots at Dubya to make sure I'm ok.

However retarded the above sounds I think there are grounds for it. Bush is a war criminal and is responsible for killing a whole lot of people. Far more than the protesters might have killed. Therefore, its clear that Bush is the guy with the record for death. Am I not justified in bringing my own security team?

Nick

the_syco

Originally posted by MeatProduct
Am I not justified in bringing my own security team?

Can I come? Do I get a weapon? Can I use the French as target practice? (Dubya won't mind; he may even give me a medal )

Linoge

Firstly, I would like to point out how much I hate Bush. I could go into details but besides being boring, most people already know how much of an asshole he is.

But: America is the most powerful country in the world and Ireland is a protectorate of it. It's also worth noting that the majority of MNC's are American and they invest alot of money in this country. It is therefore important that this prick pays us a visit, it's in our own best interest.

As for the protection thing: As he will be our guest it is our duty to protect him. He's a hated man, but then again so is the Pope by some people. Should they get rid of the Pope Mobile because it's not our problem?
Let the Americans protect their President. That way if he is assasinated (I hope I haven't jinxed it) it will be on their heads. That way Ireland wont be the first country in the world to host the assasination of a US President on foreign ground.

bonkey

Originally posted by MeatProduct
Bush is a war criminal

I see you, like Bush, are selectively applying when "innocent until proven guilty" should apply.

Apparently you seem to be saying that the man isn't entitled to the same protection under the law that you no doubt complain he denies others?

Am I not justified in bringing my own security team?

If you bring one which is as professionally trained as his, which - despite all the hysteria that seems to be prevalent on many of these threads - is not a trigger-happy gang of killers who will shoot people at his direction.

I'm not even sure the US President can order the Secret Service to fire on someone. More correctly, I'm sure he can order them, but I'm not sure that order carries any weight. Hell, I could order them to shoot him, but I'm pretty sure they'd ignore that one

Their job is to make the decisions regarding his safety, not to blindly carry out his orders in that arena.

jc

MeatProduct

Originally posted by bonkey
I see you, like Bush, are selectively applying when "innocent until proven guilty" should apply.

That's fair. However it is policy that he has approved that has resulted in the deaths of a great many people.

My security team are of course well trained, 3 months in the FCA;)

Nick