Speeding camera on Stillorgan duelcarrageway?

Mr. Flibble · 18-03-2004 5:25pm #1

Hi,

Is that a speeding camera put up on the stillorgan duel carrageway, on the left when going towards Donnybrook? I think its about opposite the RTE complex.

ando · 18-03-2004 5:54pm

thats been up for months now. Its not a speeding camera btw. its an 'amber gambler' catcher

Mr. Flibble · 18-03-2004 6:59pm

Oh. Never noticed it! Is there a fixed penalty for going through the lights late, of a court appearance?

Our man in Havana · 19-03-2004 10:32am

Originally posted by Mr. Flibble
Oh. Never noticed it! Is there a fixed penalty for going through the lights late, of a court appearance?

AFAIK they are NRA cameras and there has been no enforcement yet. I would expect that to change soon. There is also an amber gambler catcher on the N4 also.

I would suspect it will be a fixed penalty offense, €80 and 2 points.

seamus · 19-03-2004 10:53am

Originally posted by Bond-James Bond
AFAIK they are NRA cameras and there has been no enforcement yet. I would expect that to change soon. There is also an amber gambler catcher on the N4 also.

Yeah, they're only there at the moment to count how many people break the lights (I'm not sure of the exact law here, but I'm assuming you're caught if the light turns red before you reach the other side of the junction). They're testing them (Read: generating projections to see how much cash they can screw from us) before upgrading them to actual cameras and installing them all over the place.

ando · 19-03-2004 11:16am

The camera has already given me a fright. When it was first installed I didnt know if you got points for late gambling. I remember me and another guy ended up in the middle of the junction after trying to stop asap

Victor · 19-03-2004 10:32pm

Some people have been caught going through the lights 8 seconds late.

The one on the N4, on average, catches someone every light sequence.

Seth Brundle · 19-03-2004 11:21pm

not that i doubt you but where did you read this?

seamus · 20-03-2004 12:46am

Originally posted by Victor
Some people have been caught going through the lights 8 seconds late.

Strictly speaking, that's not late tbh, that's someone just blatantly breaking a red light

ArphaRima · 22-03-2004 4:17am

AFAIK if you cross the line when its red or going red. You are done. I think there will be an increase in hard braking when they do get brought in properly. Not necessarily a good thing. I dont think that breaking orange is a huge problem right now. At least not in a road safety kinda way.

Victor · 22-03-2004 6:22pm

Originally posted by kbannon
not that i doubt you but where did you read this?

Owen Keegan told me himself.

Originally posted by fluffer
AFAIK if you cross the line when its red or going red. You are done. I think there will be an increase in hard braking when they do get brought in properly. Not necessarily a good thing. I dont think that breaking orange is a huge problem right now. At least not in a road safety kinda way.

Go read the Rules of the Road. You can't "break" an orange light. If the light goes orange and it is safe to stop, then you must, if it is not safe to stop (i.e. you are too close to the stop line to stop) then you can continue. Red means you must stop and this is what the sensors are detecting.

Having a rear-end accident because you brake too hard is a lot safer than running a red light and hitting or being hit side- or head-on.

ArphaRima · 22-03-2004 7:24pm

I know my rules of the road. The "if it is safe to do so" line is the discretion I believe may be lost if these cameras come in.

Victor · 22-03-2004 8:43pm

Originally posted by fluffer
I know my rules of the road. The "if it is safe to do so" line is the discretion I believe may be lost if these cameras come in.

I doubt it, the law is the law, regardless of how it is implemented. Potentially what the camera could do is check speed and whether you break the light or not. If one is going so fast that one can't stop, is one speeding.

Seth Brundle · 22-03-2004 10:07pm

The lights dont go from green to orange to red in a short spave of time. There IS enough time to slow down safely (even if well over the limit) when you first see the orange before the red kicks in.
If you are caught breaking a red it is because you either didn't see it (driving without due care and attention),
you were going too fast to stop (speeding)
or just didn't care.

Tommy Vercetti · 23-03-2004 2:43am

Victor, can you ask Mr. Keegan why these things are placed on dual-carriageways and not, for example, near a school or residential area (such as in or at the entrance to an estate)?

sceptre · 23-03-2004 2:57am

Originally posted by fluffer
I know my rules of the road. The "if it is safe to do so" line is the discretion I believe may be lost if these cameras come in.

If the light goes orange you stop. If you're too close to safely stop you don't. That's the discretion as it currently exists.

Camera won't be recording you crossing until the light goes red. If you cross a red light you were trying not to stop on an orange.

What's the problem?

ArphaRima · 23-03-2004 3:32am

Lads I aint condoning breaking a red light. What I am saying is that we dont know when these things are triggered.

We are assuming that it is when the light is red and you cross the line. But chances are it will go off about 1.5 seconds before that. A dual carriageway has a max speed of 60mph. With another car right on your ass you may have to go through on amber as it would be the safer option.
Discretion.
It may have been the better call on the day. However a camera cannot make that distinction. Or at least a still camera cant.

What I am saying is that you have to look beyond the black and white of the rules and allow people to actually make decisions. Dont forget the rules of the road also state for a green light that you may proceed as long as it is safe to do so. Discretion.

Mocking Burd · 23-03-2004 4:54am

The vast majority of people in this country don't know the meaning of the amber light. They seem to think it means - PUT THE FOOT DOWN. What the f**k is wrong with people that they have to break a light rather than wait a couple of minutes?
It's just one of the many characteristics of the typical Irish driver that pi**es me right off.
Selfish, Selfish Selfish.

Rant over .... for now.

Tommy Vercetti · 23-03-2004 7:42am

Originally posted by fluffer
Lads I aint condoning breaking a red light. What I am saying is that we dont know when these things are triggered.

We are assuming that it is when the light is red and you cross the line. But chances are it will go off about 1.5 seconds before that. A dual carriageway has a max speed of 60mph. With another car right on your ass you may have to go through on amber as it would be the safer option.
Discretion.
It may have been the better call on the day. However a camera cannot make that distinction. Or at least a still camera cant.

What I am saying is that you have to look beyond the black and white of the rules and allow people to actually make decisions. Dont forget the rules of the road also state for a green light that you may proceed as long as it is safe to do so. Discretion.

I'm not too familiar with this particular stretch of dual carriageway, but I am almost certain that the speed limit is not 60mph (I think it is 40, or 50mph at most). Also, any driver who isn't fond of killing people will naturally slow down when approaching traffic lights regardless of the speed limit.

As for another car up your arse, hopefully these cameras will put these idiots in their place soon enough.

Seth Brundle · 23-03-2004 8:28am

Originally posted by fluffer
What I am saying is that you have to look beyond the black and white of the rules and allow people to actually make decisions. Dont forget the rules of the road also state for a green light that you may proceed as long as it is safe to do so. Discretion.

Thjey have let discretion rule for too long now and look at what has happened. Almost every red light is broken. If people are allowed make judgement calls then you will have accidents. It comes down to the fact that most people out there chance their arm at breaking the lights because they know there is a high probability that they will get away with it. With the camera system you can, if in doubt about it, spend all day watching if it flashes on green, orange or red. I saw the one on the Con Colbert Road falsh a car about a year ago and it was about 1 or 2 seconds after the lights went red
There is no point quoting the rules of the road WRT discretion anyway as half of the fúckwits out there never read them.

jackal · 23-03-2004 5:44pm

The more of these cameras they put in, the better. People are really taking the piss now with red lights, particularly at right hand turns in crossroads.

I live near fosters avenue. At the crossroads with roebuck road, whenever traffic is heavy, i always see a couple, and sometimes as many as four or five dive through a red to turn right, often causing the traffic on the right and left to wait, or slam on the brakes, even though they have a green.

people seem to think that there is an unwritten rule of a few seconds grace if you are turning! NO! You can only do this if you are blocking the junction waiting to turn.

If they put a camera there, they would make a mint! the stupid thing is: the lights change about every thirty seconds, so its not long to wait.

Andrew Duffy · 24-03-2004 8:55am

Not really on the point, but sometimes in the USA you'll see signs saying something along the lines of "Must stop at red" - seems like stating the obvious, but what it means is you can't do the above when turning left. Needless to say, you could be waiting for a very long time if traffic is heavy.

jackal · 24-03-2004 10:10am

Not exactly, Its because in america you are allowed to turn right at certain red lights, as it is not interfering with traffic. On others it would be dangerous, hence the signs!

Andrew Duffy · 24-03-2004 3:25pm

Nah - you can get "No right turn on red" and "Must stop on red" at the same junction. Of course, you need to know if the state, or indeed the county, you are in allows right turns on red in the first place, or you'll get a state trooper pointing a gun at you.

ArphaRima · 25-03-2004 3:53pm

The right turn on red rule should stay. And it should stay in the current form. Only problem is that many people abuse it. Only the first car is allowed to enter the junction (some junctions have this box marked, need more imho), and therefore only the first car is allowed turn on the red light. That is the law.

As for the American law of turning right on red, or if in our case to the left; I think it's a great idea. However with our current culture it should stay as an idea. People would use it acting as if they had right of way.

Speeding camera on Stillorgan duelcarrageway?

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