can read it, can't write it

Unpossible · 10-03-2004 4:33pm #1

does anybody else out there have the same problem as me? I can read and understand code no problem, but I just can't write it. Maybe I just have some kind of block against certain languages or something because I seem to have little or no trouble with C#, Java however.....

PS how do you know if your destined to be a programmer? or better yet if your an ok/good programmer?

seamus · 10-03-2004 4:46pm

I think most of it has to do with experience. The more you write code, the easier it gets.

I can write Java and PHP no problem. I can read, understand, and do basic debugging on C, C++ and Perl, but have awful trouble writing them. I'm pretty sure that if I wrote more in those languages, that is, wrote sizable apps or scripts, they'd become second nature too.

Probably a bit like actual languages. Back in LC times, I wasn't bad at writing French. Now I wouldn't have a clue where to start. Put a piece of text in French (or even a similar european language) in front of me and I can muddle my way through (though I couldn't correct the grammar

)

Unpossible · 10-03-2004 4:49pm

yeah maybe if I got off my lazy a*** and wrote more java code. Ah well

scojones · 10-03-2004 4:51pm

I totally agree with seamus. The more you write the easier it gets. Well not just that, but the more you read the easier it gets to write too. Unpossible: why not write other applications than the ones given as project assignments or the ones you do in your java lab. Silly little fun ones. Reading from and writing to files, moving images across the screen - with collission detection. As i said, silly little fun applications, once you get the hang of the concept of writing code for yourself, you'll find the language alot more interesting... and writing the code will be second nature to you, because you will be enjoying it more.

seamus · 10-03-2004 4:57pm

Yeah, just to expand on sjones's point - Try get yourself an IDE (JBuilder 9 is available for free download, or you can request it on the File Sharing forum). That helped me no end, especially code completion, which allows you to browse through all possible methods associated with a particular object, and become familiar with what certain objects can do. Trawling through pages of Class specifications is boring, and sometimes is tough to relate to the code that you're doing.
Even have a browse through the packages, have a look at the names of the classes. Most of them are self-explanatory as to what they do, and when you stumble on a problem later, you may be reminded of one of the names and think "maybe that'll be useful here".
If you've ever wondered how to do something - read and write to file for example - go and write a short program to find out how to do it. My college disk space was littered with useless 10 line programs from doing that.

powerage22 · 10-03-2004 5:04pm

Aren't you supposed to be working on Java right now instead of browsing through boards.ie!!!??????

Unpossible · 10-03-2004 5:36pm

at the time yes, but I had finished that assignment, now I'm supposed to be doing oracle.

The problem with going home & writing little programs is that I don't know what to do, how to do it, and where to start. Its also really hard to get motovated when, I can't do basic things in code & end up feeling stupid. (how the hell I got 87% in my last Java exam i'll never know)

powerage22 · 10-03-2004 5:38pm

Shut down the internet Unpossible!!!:D

Unpossible · 10-03-2004 5:47pm

why? just because shes back in the room?

Danilo · 15-03-2004 1:47pm

Is that you Mike?

aidan_walsh · 15-03-2004 1:53pm

Personally, I find both C# or Oracles PL/SQL deplorable.

I prefer to walk around Drumcree in July wearing nothing but a tri-colour and singing "Amhran na Bhfiann" than use either of these again...

str8_away · 15-03-2004 2:47pm

A computer language is like any natrual language.
It is always to read and understand than write.
I can read and understand stories but I cannot write one.

From my own experiance when learning a new new language I am not just learning language itsel but also the IDE.
Take Jave for example, there are many IDE out there, JBuilder, MS Visual J++ .... each one of them are different in setting up a porject, workspace working directory, library .... All these has to be learned aswell as language itself.

You are able to get a good mark on the exam because it is purly on the understanding of language itself. When you find you cannot start a small simple program it is because you donot understand IDE.

Unpossible · 15-03-2004 4:41pm

When you find you cannot start a small simple program it is because you donot understand IDE

no its usually my lack of programming ability. wish all java IDEs had telesense

bonkey · 15-03-2004 5:10pm

Originally posted by Unpossible
. Maybe I just have some kind of block against certain languages or something because I seem to have little or no trouble with C#, Java however.....

Personally, I can't understand programmers who have no problems with one language, but can't grasp another!

Not trying to be nasty...I genuinely don't understand it.

Syntax and programming are entirely seperate issues for me.

how do you know if your destined to be a programmer? or better yet if your an ok/good programmer?

My general benchmark would be that you don't think in terms of any programming language at all....which is where my comment from above came from!!!

You think how to logically solve the problem, then apply the language that you happen to be stuck with to the solution you have....possibly making some changes because you recognise that doing X in language Widget-- is stupid because Y is so much more efficient.

When you can do that, then you're well on the way to being a good programmer.

I prefer to walk around Drumcree in July wearing nothing but a tri-colour and singing "Amhran na Bhfiann" than use either of these again...

Comments like this always warm me to the bottom of my heart - alongside those "please do my university project for me, because I don't actually want to learn what I'm expecting to spend the rest of my working life doing" posts.

You know why? Its one less programmer I have to contend with in the job market.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again...

I'm a programmer. I program. Language is incidental.

jc

padraigmyers · 15-03-2004 5:21pm

Originally posted by bonkey
I'm a programmer. I program. Language is incidental.

I totally agree with this, no matter what language you program in its still the same thought process behind it.
A good programmer should be able to pick up a new language in a few weeks, because it should be a case of just learning the new syntax, the problem-solving aspect is the same.
The only major difference in programming is probabally between object-orientated and procedural programming, it can take a while to get into the mindset of one if you are used to the other, but it should still be a matter of weeks.
I think if you can't get to grips with a new language within a month then programming may not be for you.

bonkey · 15-03-2004 6:07pm

Originally posted by padraigmyers
The only major difference in programming is probabally between object-orientated and procedural programming, it can take a while to get into the mindset of one if you are used to the other, but it should still be a matter of weeks.

Don't forget set-based programming as the third different group e.g. SQL and other such languages.

I think if you can't get to grips with a new language within a month then programming may not be for you.

I wouldn't necessarily say that until you've learned 3 or 4 languages....but that is what you should aim for.

"The Pragmatic Programmer" - which is a reasonably good read - actually recommends that any programmer should try and learn something new (typically a language, but also design methodologies, etc. would count) every 6 months to a year...if only to make you consider new concepts and to add another arrow to your quiver.

jc

gerald · 15-03-2004 9:28pm

Originally posted by padraigmyers
I totally agree with this, no matter what language you program in its still the same thought process behind it.

Most of the mainstream languages and their associated books "Learn X in 21 days", keep reinventing the wheel and only differ in their syntax. They do not offer anything significant compare to their predecessors as they fail to open new possibilities to the programmer. The programmer is reduced to learn the new syntaxes of the latest (cool|toy|mainstream) languages but is not encouraged to think in new ways.

Several languages allow to do things, which are either too cumbersome or simply impossible to implement in others. Learn a few of them and your thinking process will change.

Originally posted by padraigmyers

The only major difference in programming is probabally between object-orientated and procedural programming, it can take a while to get into the mindset of one if you are used to the other, but it should still be a matter of weeks.
I think if you can't get to grips with a new language within a month then programming may not be for you.

I would look suspiciously at someone claiming he can grasp and master new concepts within a few weeks. it takes a few years to become an expert in any domains; a programming language is no exception.

aidan_walsh · 16-03-2004 10:01am

Originally posted by bonkey
Comments like this always warm me to the bottom of my heart - alongside those "please do my university project for me, because I don't actually want to learn what I'm expecting to spend the rest of my working life doing" posts.

You know why? Its one less programmer I have to contend with in the job market.

Hey, don't get me wrong, I'm quite competent when you put me in front of Java, but for some reason I just can't get my head around C#. To me it just doesn't know whetther it wants to be more like Java or VB, and comes up as a mess somewhere in the middle. And compared to Javadoc, the help files are worthless...

You seem to be mistaking me with someone sitting down in front of a compiler for the first time. I do "want to learn what I'm expecting to spend the rest of my working life doing", I find few greater pleasures than it. Maybe its because I work primarily in Java and haven't spent sufficient time trying to get into it, but first impressions as they say...

bonkey · 16-03-2004 10:31am

Originally posted by doodle_sketch
Hey, don't get me wrong, I'm quite competent when you put me in front of Java, but for some reason I just can't get my head around C#. To me it just doesn't know whetther it wants to be more like Java or VB, and comes up as a mess somewhere in the middle. And compared to Javadoc, the help files are worthless...

No, no. Its the comments of "I would rather do X than use that language again" that I was referring to. I'll quite happily use any language you don't want to, and I won't have to contend with you for the job.

Less competition for me - thats all I was saying.

You seem to be mistaking me with someone sitting down in front of a compiler for the first time.

No, I'm lumping your "I would rather do X than use that language" attitude in with the attitude held by others we see here often which is "I would rather cheat than learn what I will do as a job".

Either attitude results in less competition for jobs for me....thats all I was driving at.

jc