Gutshot game Friday night

Hyzepher

The regular €50 tournie in the Fitz last friday night had a additional element to it - the gutshot card club from London were over - all 40 of them. The field was a whopping 78 players. And to be honest it was the best tournie I have ever played in - none of this 'all-in' crap with 44 - the standard was very high with respect given to raises and re-raises - a real poker players game.

It didn't start until 10pm and finished at 5:30am and luckily for me I placed 7th - top ten getting the money. tbh it was a long and very draining night - every hand I played in required the highest level of thought to try and work out what everyone had etc.

The top prize was €3000 and the final 3 did a deal and walked away with €1750 each.

Unfortunately I couldn't make the Fitzwilliam Vs Gutshot head to head competition today but I'm sure it was just as good

Hyzepher

Lafortezza

Sounds like a good night.
I think Mr P was around for the Saturday Gutsho tournament.

I'd be tempted to go to the €100 euro tournament freezeout in the Fitz tomorrow, anyone be interested in that?

DeVore

god damn. I really wanted to play in that Gutshot 50€ game but I had the boards beer to go to and a mates wedding on Saturday. Gotta go home to see my dad today so no game for me today either (dont think I really want to play for 100 notes).

Congrats Hyzepher, plyd man!

I know what you mean about it being draining. I found out on Thursday that the top 3 in the 270 game had come from the table I was at all night and it took a serious amount of concentration each hand not to get eaten by the sharks! I was exhausted by the end of it!

DeV.

Samson

I was in the Fitzwilliam last night for the €20.00 tournament last night (max. 3 rebuys), and there were a few of them still around.
Two of the last three players left were Gutshot players, with yours truly being piggy in the middle.
Thankfully one managed to knock the other out, so I was happy.

Krusty_Clown

So, you placed second? What was that worth to you, if you don't mind me asking?

What's the €20 game like? Alot tighter than the Thursday game?

Samson

Originally posted by Krusty_Clown
So, you placed second? What was that worth to you, if you don't mind me asking?

What's the €20 game like? Alot tighter than the Thursday game?

No, don't mind at all.
I won €325.00, and it was close for first/second; we were fairly equal on chips, he went all in with 44, I had KQsuited so I called. The flop brought KxK, but he got a 4 on the turn to make the house.

Yeah, Sunday is tighter alright, so you know to respect large raises, I played very tight for most of the night and was not sure if was paying off on the last table until I hit a pair of pocket aces (more than trebled my stack) and went on a bit of a tilt (won the next four hands with a bit of aggressive play).
I got lucky again, when 3 players where taken out in one hand, all going all in against the eventual winner.
Major bloodbath

Lafortezza

Originally posted by Samson
Yeah, Sunday is tighter
I hit a pair of pocket aces (more than trebled my stack) and went on a bit of a tilt (won the next four hands with a bit of aggressive play).
I got lucky again, when 3 players where taken out in one hand, all going all in against the eventual winner.
Major bloodbath

Thats one thing I noticed about the game when I came 2nd the previous Sunday. I got decent cards at the right time, some very nice flops, and mucked lots and lots of crap holecards.
I got given a big stack of chips by someone who called my nut flush all-in, and the eventual winner gladly took all of Stormin Norman's chips when Norman went all-in on pocket 10's vs pocket Queens.
So you do need some amount of luck to get a good final placing. Its great fun though.

DeVore

horrible night at the €20 game last night. One to forget.
Much higher standard too.

That something I've noticed too, that while the top 20 players seem to nearly always come from the same pool of 50 players, you still need a decent dollop of luck at times. I've seen people get no callers for AA and flip them over while taking about 350 in chips.... I've seen guys get 5 callers all in with the same hand and effectively get setup for the night. I dont believe in luck (I dont, I dont, I dont ... keep saying it Tom)... but I certainly believe in random chance!

DeV.

Hyzepher

The best players minimise the amount of luck that effect their game - if you rely on luck you will lose in the long run. You need to select the hands that require less luck or at least play your cards in a way that luck has no bearing on the outcome.

How many times have you seen someone win a pot without showing their hand - tons - now ask yourself what cards he could of had - answer - anything as you didn't see them. Now he may have had a hand and he may of not but he played it so that luck didn't come into it - he won the hand based on how he played it.

Hyzepher

Lafortezza

Hyzepher is right, at the sunday game I came 2nd at there was a guy who would bet the flop and turn of nearly every hand he was in. Once it got to the river and he hadn't been reraised he'd go all-in. People still in the pot usually agonised and though and eventually folded. He must have won about 5 or 6 pots without showing his hand, I was silently screaming for someone to call him when I thought he was obviously bluffing.

At the break I was chatting to one of the old-skool Fitz guys (Vivian?) and he was saying that either the guy got a savage run of cards or else he was bluffing 3 out of those 5 or 6 hands.
There's 2 ways to win a hand, have the best cards by the river, or make everyone else believe you have and make them fold. There's a method to the 7-2 all-in madness.

Samson

Originally posted by DeVore
horrible night at the €20 game last night. One to forget.
Much higher standard too.

That something I've noticed too, that while the top 20 players seem to nearly always come from the same pool of 50 players, you still need a decent dollop of luck at times. I've seen people get no callers for AA and flip them over while taking about 350 in chips.... I've seen guys get 5 callers all in with the same hand and effectively get setup for the night. I dont believe in luck (I dont, I dont, I dont ... keep saying it Tom)... but I certainly believe in random chance!

DeV.

Whilst I certainly did benefit from a bit of luck last night (aforementioned AA coming at the right time, and that 3 player bloodbath), I try to play the same way all the time. That is, if I stick to my (tight) game and just play the good stuff, luck should not come into it too much.
However, it can (as was the case last night for quite a while) mean a dwindling stack if the right cards are not coming your way, expecially when the blinds are getting really big.

Hyzepher

Originally posted by Samson
However, it can (as was the case last night for quite a while) mean a dwindling stack if the right cards are not coming your way, expecially when the blinds are getting really big.

That is why ideally you cannot just stick to the good cards and hope to win - you need to 'be seen' to stick to the good cards and then play some marginal hands as well - if they hit great, if they dont then play as if you did have the good stuff. If you are seen as a tight player a well posited raise can win you a pot. Of course use this sparingly or you'll falter

Hyzepher

DeVore

all very well but if you bluff like a mad thing you can very easily find yourself out on the street. Like winning, everyone recalls the bluffs that stood up (or a person who was obviously bluffing and didnt get called)... you risk quite a bit as by definition you must risk a LOT to scare the others off decentish hands.

My point isnt about YOUR luck, it was that when you get a monster hand, its not worth **** unless you get a caller or preferably several. So the luck isnt that YOU get cards, its that when you DO hit good cards, you get someone to give you their chips!

DeV.

Hyzepher

Originally posted by DeVore
My point isnt about YOUR luck, it was that when you get a monster hand, its not worth **** unless you get a caller or preferably several. So the luck isnt that YOU get cards, its that when you DO hit good cards, you get someone to give you their chips!

DeV.

I dont think of it like that. I focus on winning the pot not the chips - big or small. If I had a monster AA preflop and everyone folded I wouldn't be too mad - a pot is a pot - afterall you might have been outdrawn and lost a bundle. Of course you can wonder about what might have been if you got callers but then you are taking that hand onto the next when you should be thinking about the new cards.

Poker is as much to do with attitude as it is with cards. Learn to forget

Hyzepher

Davey Devil

Completley agree. If you are going to do well you can't just rely on just playing good cards. At the last 250 I had a terrible run of cards. It is important to keep you chips up in tounaments. Ideally the worst you shoul have is 4 times the big blind. If you find yourself getting below this it's time to generate some action. Cards are not impotant at this stage but timing is vital.

The best time to make a bluff I think - is when there has only been blind calling pre-flop, exploit the players trying to limp-in. It is better to be bluffing against 2 oppenents or less. Try represent cards. If there is an ace on the table make a bet - if there is a pair on the table, make a bet. Don't do this all the time or you will run into trouble - as I said timing is vital. The size of the bet is important. You don't want to make the bet so big that you can't get away from a re-raise.

I love bluffing - there's nothing better than taking down the pot with absolute rubbish. As Hyzepher says, use it sparingly - but make sure you use it.

BTW - who won the Fitz vs. Gunshot match??

DeVore

The Fitz won it... the trophy was being proudly displayed on Lukes table last night


I think we are talking about two different things here. I dont doubt the value of a well timed bluff (though I tend not to do it unless I'm getting squeezed or sense weakness).

My point is that if you get AA and *luck* throws your opponents JJ, QQ, and two people choose that moment to bluff... you are quite likely to make a killing. Thats luck as you have no real control over their cards and they are unlikely to be cajoled or bullied into doing anything but the textbook play.

A hand like that at the right time is all it takes to propel you to a position where you could go for a curry and still make the last table!

DeV.

Davey Devil

Yeah it's very true. When i was playing in a home game I had pocket aces, one the other players had pocket kings and another had pocket queens. Needless to say all the chips were in the centre before the flop - ace came down and I won a monster. Somedays things go well some they don't - the main thing is stick with your style and don't let bad beats change the way you play.

DeVore

not letting bad beats change your play is one thing.... abandoning a bad strategy for a hand because its always getting you into trouble is another!

I used to play A7 all the time, and occasionally still will if the table is getting small but its a terrible hand for losing you chips. It can really let you down badly if you chase it. There are some hands people fall in love with for some reason (I've a bad affection for KJo personally... oooh all that lovely COLOUR!

Sure you should stick to your guns after you get a bad beat on the river by one of two cards in the deck that can save your opponent but not if those guns arent loaded.

DeV.

Lafortezza

Originally posted by DeVore
I used to play A7 all the time, and occasionally still will if the table is getting small but its a terrible hand for losing you chips. It can really let you down badly if you chase it. There are some hands people fall in love with for some reason (I've a bad affection for KJo personally... oooh all that lovely COLOUR!
DeV.

Q10 has got me into lots of trouble before, and I have a special fondness for A10, as I got a house with it against Norman, didn't win much but I played it fairly well.

Hyzepher

There is an old saying in poker - the more you are out drawn, the better the player you are!

The reasoning behind this is simple - to be outdrawn you need to be ahead, if you are ahead then you have made the righ call up to that point - on average you will win the hand, the long shot drawing hand cannot match the made hand in the long run

Hyzepher

Samson

Originally posted by Hyzepher
That is why ideally you cannot just stick to the good cards and hope to win - you need to 'be seen' to stick to the good cards and then play some marginal hands as well - if they hit great, if they dont then play as if you did have the good stuff. If you are seen as a tight player a well posited raise can win you a pot. Of course use this sparingly or you'll falter

Hyzepher

I agree completely.
However, I had not really played a hand at all after moving table (had been getting total rubbish), so I was not willing to take a chance. There were two reasons behind my thinking:
1. There was one guy at the table with a very big stack who was calling just about everything pre-flop.
2. I had not shown that I was anything but a meek player (timing/cards).
So I was basically holding out for a decent/playable hand, and hoping my chips would last until I got one. As it happened, it came very late.

But, after having multiplied my stack, I went all in next hand with one ace and a rubbish kicker and took the blinds and the chips of a few callers as everyone folded. From there on in I reckon I played a fairly good game, as I had a stack to play with.
So my point is, as Hyzepher rightly suggests one should vary one's play (and I know I don't vary my play half enough), but I feel if you don't win a pot or two with good cards first, you will get called a lot more. I think you need a little bit of history at the table before bluffing.