it job

coolio_64

Dear All

I was a fourth year computing student last year in the college. Since I have completed the course I have been unable to secure IT employment.
I have done my best but it is to no avail. I am currently unemployed. I am registered with all the major recruitment agencies. Im also registered with fas. Every thursday i purchase The Irish Times and apply for the various jobs.

What other avenues could I try?

Static M.e.

Personnally I would start with your CV take a long hard look at it then get a friend in the know to look at it too.

Try building up a friendship with some of the recruitment people and ask them what do they think of your CV do they see any changes that might be beneficial etc.

Post your CV out to the companies you want to work detailing why you would like to work for them , why you are interested in their Technology etc and basically sell yourself. If they are intested at all you will get an interview. Alot of jobs dont go through Agencies at all .

Aswell as that basically all any manager wants is someone who is willing to learn, somewhat competant and can be realied upon, show this to them as well as having the base skills of course.

Brush up on your interview skills, beleive it or not it helps.

Dress well, tidy etc and be on time. Show enthusiam.

Alot of companies take grads on dont they ? Intel , Compaq etc look further into that < Im not sure of this area tbh so ive no advice on it >

Best of luck.

PS try in your spare time to do extra course's . Mcps etc

seamus

Some guys I know have done some non paid work in IT companies, just to build up experience, but it's not something that sounds too nice.

How many applications would you send out per day on average?
The thing about recruitment companies is you have to pester them. You cannot just register with them and hope that you'll get a flood of job offers. If you see a job advertised online, and you're registered already with the recruitment company, that doesn't matter - apply anyway! Very often they'll only scan their database for keywords - you're only a number to them. Get the name of someone in the recruitment company. Ring them at least once every two weeks.

It sounds overkill, but it's necessary. I assume you've done a few interviews at this point? Did you get any feedback? You should always heed why they tell you that you haven't got the job.

The IT market is definitely picking up, and there shouldn't be much hassle now securing a job that's at least within the sector, to build up some experience for yourself.

Oh yes, the key - Don't dismiss something because the money's not very high or because you think it's below you. An employer won't hire you if they think it's below you anyway, and they'll tell you that. You also never know what advancement oppotunites are like within a company. They pay may be crap, but they may pay for all kinds of certification, or internal opportunities may spring up every 3 months.

Also post up your CV, we'll check if there are any glaring problems.

leeroybrown

The milkround isn't what it once was but there are quite a few jobs out there. The only problem with milkround recruitments is that companies tend to run them on specific Application/Interview/Start schedules based on the college year so you're probably a bit out of sync.

Visit gradireland.com and sign up to their graduate mailing list for the types of job you'd be interested in.

There should be a graduate recruitment fair near you some time in the future. It's worth going along to see who is recruiting even if their schedules don't suit you. Talk to the representatives on the stands that interest you and explain what kind of role you want and that you''re looking for a job soon. I got my current job by talking to a recruiter. He realised that I fell into a category that suited them and asked me to email him my CV. I was interviewed and hired within 3 weeks.

Another thing I would suggest is to sit down and look at your CV for strengths and weaknesses. It's a worthwhile exercise to spend a significant amount of time on it. Make sure you emphasise what skills you have so that busy recruiters will spot you. Your CV is just a foot in the door for an interview.

Also, spend a bit of time coming up with a bespoke covering letter/email for each each company you apply to.

Have you been called to interview for many of your applications?

If you do post your CV up here remember to remove the private stuff.

Morpheus

apply to a recruitment agency, follow it up later in the day by phone.

talk with them, ask about opportunities, about why you want to apply for the one they advertised, ask to go in and meet them, so they can see you face to face, that you want to chat about your possible opportunities.

theyll tell you "well ill get back to you soon"... youll sit by the phone, gather dust, eventually the phone will ring, but alas... it will be a wrong number.

OK... when they say, we'll get back to you, you say, OK, ill call you in the next week or so and see whats what. You call them back once or twice a week every week, eventually they will get to know you and they will stick you up for interview. Best case scenario is to get to know someone in there and theyll get all buddy buddy and bump you up the waiting list.

TAKE ANYTHING THEY OFFER YOU!! even if you have zero intention of taking the job, the interview experience is invaluable.

Never be nervous in the interview, you have no job, therefore you have nothing to lose.

God speed to a new job!

jank

The IT market is definitely picking up, and there shouldn't be much hassle now securing a job that's at least within the sector, to build up some experience for yourself.

music to my ears just hope 3 years down the line there will be a "shortage" of skilled IT staff so then we can rake it in like the old days.


just have to wait i supposeww)

Gerry

You could be waiting forever for that to happen again, just be glad that there are actually some jobs going now.

coolio_64

i send off about 6 applications a day. it is brutal. i cant get a job anywhere at all. what other avenues would anyone advise me to try?

K12

My company are currently seeking a graduate for work in the Dublin region. Salary would be 21-22K plus 10% bonus in December and reviews. Excellent company to work with. Do you have any WebSphere or WebLogic experience?

K12

Coolio did you receive my PM okay? I have had problems with PM's before... just let us know if you got it and require further info

coolio_64

Hi

What other avenues could I take?

DaithiSurfer

The main problem you have is that at the moment in IT companies want soemone who can hit the road running. A grad can't do that. In years gone by, companies were prepared to invest in grads simply because it was the easiest way to get people to work for them. They used to find it very difficult to get experienced people so would take on grads and train them up . Not so anymore. There are a lot more experienced it people looking for jobs, and you just will not be able to compete as a grad.
That said, the market is getting better and better. There are a lot of jobs there now and eventually there will be a shortage of workers. Your problem is that you need to think of a way to place yourself to take advantage of this upturn. e.g get a job in support in a company that has a large it department and make you interest into moving into development etc know to the recruiters of that company. This has been tried and tested by a few people i know.
I personally think that it would be a good idea to get out of IT in the next 3 years or so. I really believe that we'll all be heading for india , poland etc to find work, because thats where investment will be going.
There will come a point where the average IT professional will be paid no more than the average factory employee.

ando

I prefer applying for a job directly. I hate those recruitment agencies, they don’t give a toss about you. I was sent twice to interviews for jobs that did not in any way suit me. For instance, about three yrs ago one agency had my cv, My cv said clearly that I was after an NT/2000 Network admin job, but the girl sent me to an interview for a Unix based network.... Needless to say it was an embarrassing interview, here was a guy asking me technical questions on Unix and me staring back at him with an empty face :rolleyes:

coolio_64

I was thinking of heading over to london.
Whats the market like over there?

silver surfer

I was in a similar situation last year (although have quite a bit of experience) after being laid off and couldnt find a full time job.

I then registered with some agencies for Contract work and am still doing it a year later - here are the main companies that supply contractors that I have used in Dublin :

IT Alliance
Sureskills
Manpower


There are a few more you could try, give them a call and tell them what you're after and your experience etc. - bear in mind it's still a tough market so you may have to set your sights on something a bit lower down the scale until things pick up.

Also, they may offer you a short term contract e.g. 1/2/3 months but these often develop into longer term ones so don't be put off by what seems like too short a contract initially.

silver surfer

oh - by the way I tried London at the end of 2002 and it was just as bad, it's deceptive when you look at the websites and see lots of jobs but there are an greater amount of people after what seems like a greater amount of jobs - IMO stick it out here as I think its as good as anywhere at the moment, I know a guy who came back from Oz as he couldn't find jacksh*t over there !

Third_Echelon

Originally posted by DaithiSurfer
The main problem you have is that at the moment in IT companies want soemone who can hit the road running. A grad can't do that. In years gone by, companies were prepared to invest in grads simply because it was the easiest way to get people to work for them. They used to find it very difficult to get experienced people so would take on grads and train them up . Not so anymore. There are a lot more experienced it people looking for jobs, and you just will not be able to compete as a grad.

I would agree up to a point, but it depends on the type of job it is.. companies usually provide training no matter how experienced or inexperienced you are.. If you show at an interview that you are willing to learn and have a good solid background and knowledge of the desired areas by the employer, most companies would give you a chance... I did this and it worked for me...

Coolio: Did you apply for graduate positions or graduate programs with any companies? This can be a good way of getting into a company. You usually cover a lot of departments, products and projects for the first few years and then you are assigned a certain role when you find your niche.

What type of IT course did you do? Was it programming or hardware/IT management based? You may be applying to the wrong type of companies...

That said, the market is getting better and better. There are a lot of jobs there now and eventually there will be a shortage of workers. Your problem is that you need to think of a way to place yourself to take advantage of this upturn. e.g get a job in support in a company that has a large it department and make you interest into moving into development etc know to the recruiters of that company. This has been tried and tested by a few people i know.

Yeah... I agree, this is a good way of getting a foot in the door... I did this in my first IT job...

I personally think that it would be a good idea to get out of IT in the next 3 years or so. I really believe that we'll all be heading for india , poland etc to find work, because thats where investment will be going.
There will come a point where the average IT professional will be paid no more than the average factory employee.

There is a lot of investment in these markets. The company I work for have just opened subsidaries in India and China, but this is with a view to supporting american, asian and australian/NZ customers.

It is true to say that a lot of regular support jobs will move to these cheaper labour markets.. but the key now for IT workers in Ireland is UPSKILLING... go on courses.. develop your skills from regular support type roles to specializing in areas that will ensure that you will still be employable... e.g. there is always jobs for people with experience in Oracle, DB2, Informix, SAP Applications, JD Edwards etc..

Coolio, Have you found a job yet? If you PM me your details of what you've done etc, I could pass on a CV for you...

coolio_64

First of all thanks for all the advice.

Still no job. In London now looking around.

Tried every company possible in Ireland

coolio_64

What are the best london IT recruitment websites

Thanks

WhiteWashMan

Originally posted by coolio_64
What are the best london IT recruitment websites

Thanks

www.reed.co.uk

www.cwjobs.co.uk

www.jobsearch.co.uk

www.jobtrack.co.uk

www.topjobs.co.uk

www.jobsite.co.uk

DaithiSurfer

I'm on a contract in London at the moment.
The money is good, but better still - In the last month or so there seem to be a hell of a lot more jobs in London.
Way better than Ireland - if you were willing to live there.
I'm not so its back to Ireland after this contract.

WhiteWashMan

i would be surprised if anyone couldnt get a decent job in the IT sector in the UK.
the market is up, IT spend is up 7% for the first time in 3 years, and there seems to be a whole load of ads.
Ive been called about a dozen times in the last 4 weeks from agencies asking if i want IT jobs.

coolio_64

Thanks for the sites WhiteWashMan

Anyone got anymore advice. Still no luck here at all

jank

might be going out on a limp here but what about the FAS graduate programme

I myself will probably be on the same boat as you in a few months
heard it is a good way to get experience and you get paid too

anybody ever do this, want to know whats its like!

seamus

Post up your CV (Edit out any personal data if you want), we may be able to give you a few tips.

coolio_64

got it checked out before and said it was ok.

Tell me more about the fas programme?

WhiteWashMan

and if i said jump of a bridge, would you do it?

a free second opinon is always worth the effort.


although, to be honest, i am begining to see some characteristics from your posts...

coolio_64

what characteristics from my posts...

WhiteWashMan

your cv is ok, then why havent you got a job?

you are sending out 6 applications a day

you have moved to london, and you still cant get a job.

tried every possible job in ireland and still coulnt get a job.

now registered with every agency in london and cat get a job.


why dont you tell me what that says?

there is only one common element in all the above things, and thats you.
now if you want someones help (and you have asked many people for avenues) i would suggest acting on some of the kind, free advice given.

of course, you dont need to, but when someone posts up going help help help and then turns around and says 'my cv is ok' i get píssed off, because i think, hmmm, you want advice, but youre not prepared to listen.

i can give you reems of advice, but im not going to. instead, im going to tell you to look at ll the sticky threads. there are many opinions there (most of the mine!) and a lot of people who disagree with my opinions. but thats good, because you get a good mix and some good ideas.
in fact, anyone who reads all the advice cant fail to get a job, unless you are completely lying to us about your abilities.

so, in summary, if you ask advice, be kind enough to listen to it.
otherwise dont waste people's time please.

seamus

Originally posted by WhiteWashMan
there is only one common element in all the above things, and thats you.
now if you want someones help (and you have asked many people for avenues) i would suggest acting on some of the kind, free advice given.

of course, you dont need to, but when someone posts up going help help help and then turns around and says 'my cv is ok' i get píssed off, because i think, hmmm, you want advice, but youre not prepared to listen.

I was going to say something along those lines, but I haven't got the cold heart of a bastard
TBH coolio_64, if you're not even getting interviews, or many interviews, then it's highly likely that your CV is far from 'OK'.

leeroybrown

I also can't stress enough the importance of a good CV. The last time I applied for a job I had some friends spend a few minutes reading over both my CV and Covering letter. I was pretty confident about the quality of my CV and my friends thought it presented my skills well but when I got to the interview one of the recruiters pointed out a flaw. I hadn't placed enough emphasis on a skill that was a bonus for them. I was lucky, made it to interview and was able to bring this up.

Ultimately what an employer calls someone to interview on is a well presented skill set. There are so many graduates competing for the jobs that a small improvement in a CV might make a difference in 10 applications.

Oh, and my golden rule is _never_ lie (unless you've got no chance otherwise ). Hyperbole can make a difference but ultimately if you lie it'll probably get noticed.

coolio_64

WOW!!!!
Chill out whitewashman

What are you on at all.

Have 2 interviews for Monday morning and 3 more for Tuesday!!

Now what were you saying?

WhiteWashMan

well i hope you get a job.

by the way, dont tell me to calm down. i am calm.
if i want youd be banned already.


and what i was saying stillrings true.
why havent you got a job if your cv is great and you are so brilliant?

SantaHoe

That's some tough love there wwm.
You go girl.

Peace

IMHO...the guys either an idiot or a troll.

Word up WWM.

coolio_64

Thanks WhiteWashMan for the wishes.

I hope i get a job to.

Any tips for the interviews.

BTW all points very much appreciated!!

galwaydude

there seems to be loads of jobs out there at the moment in IT at the moment but unfortunately the money aint that good yet.
Do some research on the net for info about the company, what type of job is it for ? Depending on what type brush up on the technical side as there will be plenty of technical questions as well.Best of luck with the interview, im sure you will get one of them and whitewashman dont be so harsh on the original poster, i know you are a moderator for the site but chill out but this is a boards site where we get to express our opinions.And please dont ban me now for speaking my mind!!!!

WhiteWashMan

asking for help and brushing aside advice does not constitute as 'expressing your opinions' on this forum or anywhere else.

however, if you want to play the 'freedom of expression' card, then surely i am free to express my unhappiness at the sort of behaviour that has been the result in trolling in the past and wasted peoples time?
surely im well within my right to express my feelings in fact.
and if i am moderator, surely im doubly allowed to express my feelings for this reason?
or am i not allowed to do that but others can.
oh the harsh life of a boards moderator.......

:rolleyes:

if he takes the advice and gets a job, great. we will all be happy.

dglancy

Interviews, whew.

The thing is that some people are really good at them (I usually am) and some people do hopeless ones (my gf for example!).

I interview people quite a bit (as the techie in the interview) and I've yet to find them any good at picking someone who will be able to do the job and fit into the place that they are applying to.

My gf is very good technically and has good experience (currently in a job she doesn't like) and has no problems getting called for an interview - thats when it goes wrong. She just can't finish the job getting process.

There must be a better way.

Best of luck at the interviews!

seamus

Coolio, if you're getting a lot of interviews, and not getting the jobs then your problem is one of three things;
1. You're aiming slightly too high. The recruitment company fires in your CV to fill numbers, or HR decides to give you a chance. Then you get into the interview, and everybody realises that you're not nearly qualified enough, or you badly lack relevant experience.
2. You're aiming slightly too low. This happened to me quite a bit. The recruitment company puts in too many requirements for a relatively simple job, or HR, not being technical enough, see a lot of qualifications and think you're great. Then you get to the interview, go through with flying colours, and they reject you because they think/know that you'll be there for at most 6 months, and then you'll head off somewhere else. This is a horrible type of rejection when you haven't even got any job.
3. You're crap at interviews. From what people have said, it would seem that you're either good at interviews or you're not. There is a certain amount of ettiquete - little things you should do, little things you shouldn't do, a style of speaking, and a style of listening - that everyone can remember, whether you're nervous or not. The main keys are to look interested what the interviewer is saying, be keen about the job, and talk talk talk. Most people you meet will have interviewed loads of people before you. They're delighted to let you go off and waffle on your own, while they drift off. There are a few stickies on this forum. Read them, remember them. Every interview is different you need to adjust yourself, the way you think, the way you express yourself and the way you relate to people, to suit each interview.

A colleague of mine, is a nice friendly guy, plenty of chat, but when he goes into an interview, he just turns into a bag of nerves, and melts in the chair.

coolio_64

Thanks for that Seamus

Very much appreciated!

skywalker_208

there seems to be loads of jobs out there at the moment in IT at the moment but unfortunately the money aint that good yet

yea but it seems u need 1 or 2 years experience or a bloody second language to get any of them!

netman

If you're nervous at interviews (and most people are) try "Rescue Remedy".

It's a homeopathic medicine, available in nearly any chemist. A lot of students take it when the exams start

dglancy

I've heard people swear about that stuff alright.

netman

you'd be surprised, but i heard about it from the vet. she recommended it and says it works on animals as well as people. i have a cat that gets very nervous in the car, and this stuff comes in handy