School using electricity lines to access the internet

Valentia

James' St. CBS, in conjunction with SMART Telecom are up and running with a 2Mb line. This is all being done throughout the building over the electricity lines.

I don't know much more but I will be getting details soon. My brother is the principal there.

I think there is going to be someting in tomorrow's Irish Times about it.

Thought Muck might be interested.

mr_angry

3MBPS Internet over power lines is being offered in Cincinatti. They think it could offer a solution to rural broadband issues, as the electricity network is obviously pretty widespread these days.

My favourite quote is from the Time Warner executive who said that their package would be more attractive because they bundled several utilities together (TV, phone, Internet). Does he not realise that Internet will now be bundled with electricity? For half the price? Duh. $40 per month for a 3MBPS line is sweet. Lets hope ESB see the potential money to be made here too.

SkepticOne

It's been pointed out numerous times that powerline broadband is not a solution to rural broadband. It leaks signal like mad and so is only good over very short distances. For rural broadband, what is needed is long-distance last mile solutions.

bminish

It's interesting how SMART have gotten the go ahead for this from comreg before the results of the trials has come in or European standards on emission levels have been established.

If you read the artice PLT service isn't actually being offered in Cincinnati, they are just considering it following trials with 100 Customers.


Rather than go over again the previous debates on boards relating to PLT you may want to follow This Post and the links back from it.

I'll be happy to respond to any questions that you may have

.Brendan

SkepticOne

It is important to point out that what CBS are getting is not powerline broadband. The broadband is being provided via a wireless link.

The electricity wiring within the school is being used as a subsitute for a proper network (e.g. CAT5/6, wireless).

bminish

Originally posted by SkepticOne
It is important to point out that what CBS are getting is not powerline broadband. The broadband is being provided via a wireless link.

The electricity wiring within the school is being used as a subsitute for a proper network (e.g. CAT5/6, wireless).

That unfortunately presents exactly the same set of problems to radio users, the BBC in Creif found that emissions radiated from the in house segments were at least as strong as those radiated from the access segments.

it is worth remembering that ANY installation of PLT, in house or Access systems MUST under the current EU regulations comply with the EMC Directive, the essential requirement in Article 4a shall be respected; apparatus shall be so constructed that the electrical disturbance it generates does not exceed a level allowing radio and telecommunications equipment and other apparatus to operate as intended.

Now I know this is a bit vague but basically it offers a similar level of protection to European radio users as the FCC part15b rules.

.Brendan

Valentia

Originally posted by bminish
It's interesting how SMART have gotten the go ahead for this from comreg

I think it's a pilot trial.

SkepticOne

Originally posted by bminish
That unfortunately presents exactly the same set of problems to radio users, the BBC in Creif found that emissions radiated from the in house segments were at least as strong as those radiated from the access segments.

I wasn't responding to your post, but rather the top posting "School using electricity lines to access the internet". This gives the impression that the school itself is using the electricity network to access the internet whereas in fact, the internal wiring is being used to distribute the internet around the school in much the same way as conventional wired or wireless networks.

In fact the school is simply getting a wireless link. Smart have probably done this in order to differentiate themselves from the other wireless providers in the area serving the digital hub. This makes them look good in front of the politicians.

This was what I wanted to point out. The problem in Ireland has never been sharing out internet connections within a building, it has been getting access to the internet at affordable prices and at good speeds.

Urban Weigl

From reading this thread, I get the impression that SMART are using powerline indoors only, as it saves wiring the school, so there should be no issue of it leaking. I do not see a problem with that, since the equipment can be got with CE mark -- I saw a German company selling CE marked indoor powerline gear last year, and I know Linksys and D-Link sell that kind of equipment as well, though I am not certain whether they are currently only selling it in the US.

bminish

Originally posted by Urban Weigl
From reading this thread, I get the impression that SMART are using powerline indoors only, as it saves wiring the school, so there should be no issue of it leaking. I do not see a problem with that, since the equipment can be got with CE mark -- I saw a German company selling CE marked indoor powerline gear last year, and I know Linksys and D-Link sell that kind of equipment as well, though I am not certain whether they are currently only selling it in the US.

Actually if one looks at the amount of wiring inside buildings vs the amount of wiring outside buildings and the fact that the routing of the neutral is often different from the phase wiring it becomes easy to see why in most PLT installations it's the in building segment that does most of the radiating.

Just because some in house PLT equipment is CE marked does not exclude it from complying with the EMC directive. It can be used as long is it does not cause a problem and it must accept any problems from radio users.

In any case In-house PLT is a lousy platform to build a LAN on

It's slow 3 or 4 Mbs tops in the real world It isn't robust since it is very sensitive to HF radio transmissions or mains bourne noise even at quite a distance. It Doesn't propagate well though things like EMC filters or UPSes it requires proprietary kit, Ascom's equipment won't work with other manufacturers Equipment Under the EMC directive it has to shut down should it be found causing harmful interference to a licensed radio service.

Now why not use good old fashioned Cat 5 cabling or use WiFi ?

.Brendan

SkepticOne

Originally posted by bminish

Now why not use good old fashioned Cat 5 cabling or use WiFi ?

.Brendan

Because it would not get SMART telecom in the papers.

Urban Weigl

http://www.en.devolo.biz/

I get the impression that they're using something like that. 14Mbps (up to) and offers complete coverage of most buildings. It is based on the HomePlug standard.

We used to have a baby monitor that worked that way.

Edit: "Two MicroLink dLAN Ethernet adapters and all necessary cables for an immediate start into home networking.
MicroLink dLAN products are the HomePlug adapters that transform your in-house power circuit into networking infrastructure. These adapters use the 230 V electrical wiring for data communications in a household network. Ideal for anyone wanting to extend their internet access or make an internal network without the need of new cabling. Surf the internet and share data at up to 14 Mbps and up to a range of 200m."

Edit 2: "The household electricity meter serves to block out unwanted access from the outside."

yellum

Might be some preservation order on the building. No new digging and drilling of the walls/floors

bminish

Originally posted by Urban Weigl
http://www.en.devolo.biz/

I get the impression that they're using something like that. 14Mbps (up to) and offers complete coverage of most buildings. It is based on the HomePlug standard.

In the real world these things manage more like 3 Mbs, stop working in the presence of strong HF radio signals and have to be removed if they cause harmful interference to radio users under the EMC directive

Some baby monitors used to use an FM carrier at about 100 Khz superimposed on the mains but most operate on around 49 Mhz and only use mains for the power. In any case these do not cause problems since they only occupy 1 spot frequency and it's allocated for this kind of use.

SMART telecom's partner for the PLC segment is ASCOM so it's nothing to do with the Home plug 'standard'

the relevant section is on page 11 of
http://www.irlgov.ie/oireachtas/Committees-29th-D%E1il/jcmnr-debates/jccmnr280104.rtf

ASCOM's Equipment was used for part of the Crief trials, both the BBC and the RA found very high levels of interference from it there as did the RSGB

.Brendan

bk

It seems silly and shortsighted to me to use a properiatory, inferior (and probably more expensive) technology, when widely used, understood and deployed technology like 802.11g exists.

All you would need to do is ensure it is secured properly.

thegills

It's interesting how SMART have gotten the go ahead for this from comreg

1. ComReg can now turn around requests in 1 day; remember eircoms 3rd line rental price hike.
2. Smart are bank rolling it.

I read the article in the Times today and i hate these '4 times the speed of DSL' comments. Anybody can provide a microwave link from Hibernia Atlantics international capacity to say a school nearby and claim to have installed a '1000 times DSL' service. But in reality it's not.

When I was in college 10 years ago there was a succesful final year project using the internal DC wiring to transmit data signals between PC's anywhere in the building. The problem arise once you go out into the real world and try offer this service on a widespread basis: Are Smart going to provide microwave backhaul to every customer??

eircomtribunal

Originally posted by SkepticOne
Because it would not get SMART telecom in the papers.

There's an article in todays Business Post on the project. Can't find it on their web site, unfortunately.

Brendan, why don't you contact Smart's Oisin Fanning?

Overall Management:
Mr Oisin Fanning
CEO
3300 Lake Drive
CityWest Business Campus
Dublin 24
Telephone: 01 4699300
Fax: 01 4999301
Email Address: tcullen@smarttelecom.ie (MD's Secretary/PA:
Ms Trish Cullen,PA to Managing Director)

Peter