Housemates GF is pregnant

LegacyUser · 03-03-2004 11:26am #1

The guy a share a house with has been seeing a girl since last November. It has been fairly intense between them since the start, they see each other all the time and its been physical since very early in the relationship.

From what he tells me, early last week they were in bed, and had a "mix-up" over contraception, he though she was on the pill, she thought he was going to pull out.
They got a pregnancy test this weekend and it came up positive.

Yesterday they went to the doctor together and the doctor confirmed that the girlfriend was 6 weeks pregnant. Firstly how does a girl not know that something is up with her body after being prgnant for 6 weeks?? I know alot less than I should about women's cycles and stuff but surely she should have guessed.

Anyway. My mate when he told me pretty much had decided that they would be taking the boat to England for an abortion. I may not agree but its none of my business and its between the two of them.
BUT! They are both now asking me for advice/my opinion. I'm a couple of years older than them both, and very good mates with the guy. I get on great with the girlfriend, she's a lovely girl, but I feel I'm in a very awkward position.

On top of this I don't believe that abortion is a solution for my own reasons, but I've never been in the position of having to deal with an unwanted pregnancy, so I've no idea how I'd react.

So it boils down to:
I don't agree with the abortion solution.
She is asking me for my opinion on things (and asking me not to let my mate know she's asking me).
He's asking me for advice. I also get the feeling that he may ask me for a loan of money to go to England for the abortion. I've no problem loaning him money, he's good for it and he's a mate, but the reason he needs the money makes me feel very weird and awkward, its like I'd be paying (partly) for the abortion when I disagree with it. Or would I just be helping a mate who's stuck for cash?

Late last night, my mate mentioned that his gf had said that there's no way she'd have the baby and give it up for adoption. Now he thinks that she might be considering having the baby and keeping it.

So my head is a bit melted by this, I'm sure not as much as my mate and his girlfriend though.

Thanks for reading and if you have any advice then please post!

Beruthiel · 03-03-2004 12:33pm

Originally posted by Un reg in ald
Firstly how does a girl not know that something is up with her body after being prgnant for 6 weeks?? I know alot less than I should about women's cycles and stuff but surely she should have guessed

not necessarily true, there aren’t many changes apart from a little fatigue perhaps, you will most likely start to wonder around the 5-7 weeks depending on how regulated your periods are

BUT! They are both now asking me for advice/my opinion. I'm a couple of years older than them both, and very good mates with the guy. I get on great with the girlfriend, she's a lovely girl, but I feel I'm in a very awkward position

keep out of it, seriously, tell them both that the decision is 100% theirs, keep your opinions to yourself, they won't help. Tell them that you don't want to get involved as in the long run they are the ones who have to live with this decision.

On top of this I don't believe that abortion is a solution for my own reasons

which is another VERY good reason to keep your opinions to yourself

She is asking me for my opinion on things (and asking me not to let my mate know she's asking me)

tell her you don't want to get involved

He's asking me for advice

tell him the same thing

Or would I just be helping a mate who's stuck for cash?

you'd just be helping imo and he will be grateful
however
if you are uncomfortable with that, tell him you cannot get invloved with any of it, it's up to you to decide on that one.

once again, this is a decision they both must come to on their own, if anyone else gets involved and sways them in some way, me thinks you could get the blunt of it at some later stage in life. If they at least make the decision on their own then they can live with that to some extent. I personally wouldn't ask for anyones else advice, I'd make the decision and go with it. I think they are unfair to put you in this position and I'd tell them that.

koneko · 03-03-2004 12:37pm

I agree with ruthie. No matter how you feel about abortion, it's their decision. I know it's a hard decision and that's probably why they're asking you, it's hard to take full responsibility and make decisions like that but they have to.

You're not in that relationship, it'll make things awkward if you help them decide. They have to talk things through themselves.

ykt0di9url7bc3 · 03-03-2004 12:38pm

Originally posted by Beruthiel

keep out of it, seriously, tell them both that the decision is 100% theirs, keep your opinions to yourself, they won't help. Tell them that you don't want to get involved as in the long run they are the ones who have to live with this decision.

On top of this I don't believe that abortion is a solution for my own reasons

which is another VERY good reason to keep your opinions to yourself

having lived with 2 pregnant women in the last year...the best advice is to stay well clear....infact i moved out on both occasions after a while, altho ther were my friends it was a better descision on my part concerning work and college...

LegacyUser · 03-03-2004 12:47pm

The reason I haven't so far said that I want to keep out of the whole situation is that my mate has nobody else really to talk to about it.
His Parents would go mad and insist that they had the baby and either gave it up for adoption or kept it. Her parents would likely feel the exact same.

So I'm kind of the only person he can talk to and ask for advice and help.
The money thing is someting that I would more than likely help him with. I can't imagine being in his situation (even thought I've had a scare or two myself but this is v different), so I would help him with the €1000 euro cost if I asked and really needed it. The €1000 cost figure came from him not me btw, I've no idea how much doctors fees and clinics and such cost for an abortion in England.

If she is 6 weeks pregnant, is there a latest time for her to have an abortion? How does this change the abortion the longer she waits. I'd like to know a bit about this stuff if I am going to act as a sounding board for him.

He's 21, she's 20 btw, I'm 23 myself, and while neither of them are the most mature people I've ever met, they're good kids.

joePC · 03-03-2004 12:52pm

Un reg in ald: I would say dont get involved but in a way you all ready are, I agree 100% with your opioion on abortion & I would never give someone the money because like you said its gona be on your concience even in a very small way.
What age are the couple..................its a very diffucult position to be in, all I can really say is good luck and I hope everything works out OK.

Thanks joePC............

Beruthiel · 03-03-2004 1:12pm

Originally posted by Un reg in ald
The reason I haven't so far said that I want to keep out of the whole situation is that my mate has nobody else really to talk to about it

it is quite possible to lend your ear to someone without giving any opinions, you can sympathise and if you are asked a direction question you can turn it back by asking what he thinks himself,

he could also try this lot

http://www.cura.ie

RicardoSmith · 03-03-2004 1:19pm

What advice can you give unless you've been in the position yourself? I'm sure theres places you can go for free information. I've known people in that situation how have had the kid and whom have not had the kid. But I wouldn't give anyone advice on it.

It a decision they'll have to make 100% on their own.

hedgetrimmer · 03-03-2004 1:27pm

DO NOT GET INVOLVED

No matter how understanding you are, etc etc, getting involved puts you up for the blame game if they decide for an abortion after the event. Hell, staying out might get you targetted, but if you said nothing, you protect yourself.

This issue is too big, too life-altering for them for you to be a part of.

Mighty_Mouse · 03-03-2004 1:31pm

Do not offer any advice. And dont be tempted to let you own belives change the coarse of this young couples lives. (i applaude you for not doing so thus far)

At 21 who wants their lives ruined!! I know Id be on the boat asap. I mean f***k that for a game of marbles!!!

Before all those pro-life religious nutters come rushing to tell them the devil will haunt them. Save it. Everyone has heard the arguments.

Remember its their choice so if you have nothing constructive to offer , say nothing at all.

Personally , I think theyve caught it early. By friday it could be all over !!!!

Beruthiel · 03-03-2004 1:49pm

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
Before all those pro-life religious nutters come rushing to tell them the devil will haunt them.

I do not want any pro lifers getting invloved in this thread
if you have something to say on that issue, take it to humanities!

flogen · 03-03-2004 2:16pm

Personally , I think theyve caught it early. By friday it could be all over !!!!

thankfully Ive never been in a post-abortion decision (or even in a position where I have to decide), but from what I gather it doesnt just stop once the operation is complete.. there is alot of emotional issues etc to deal with, and the relationship may never fully recover depending on the situation

and before you ask, no I am not a pro-lifer, i am strongly pro choice.
My reasons for this is because I think no-one should have the right to tell anyone else how to live their lives and what way to go in such huge "forkroads" we may come across.
It is for this reason that I join the others in saying stay out of it. Its not your decision, and you wont have to deal with the consequences one way or the other. As beruthiel pointed out, its likely that whatever they do, they could regret it in afew years, and if you had a part in getting them their it will be your head on the chopping block.
Abortion is a huge decision to make, and it cannot be easy to decide on it. However, it may be best for all if they do go ahead with it (and they may regret the day for the rest of their lives). The point is, they have to decide, not you or anyone else, it is their future that will be changed, not yours.

Flogen

hedgetrimmer · 03-03-2004 2:49pm

Originally posted by Beruthiel
I do not want any pro lifers getting invloved in this thread
if you have something to say on that issue, take it to humanities!

I'm not a pro-lifer by any stretch of the imagination, but shouldn't people be free to express their view on a personal issue? Sorry if this seems off topic or off-kilter, perhaps it's just in the phraseology, but that statement seemed kind of heavy handed

Just my 2c on the issue. Again, apologies if this should have gone pm

Beruthiel · 03-03-2004 2:57pm

Originally posted by hedgetrimmer
but shouldn't people be free to express their view on a personal issue? Sorry if this seems off topic or off-kilter, perhaps it's just in the phraseology, but that statement seemed kind of heavy handed

Just my 2c on the issue. Again, apologies if this should have gone pm

yes, as it says in the charter, a PM is what your first option should be if you disagree with my moderating
secondly, this is a personal issues forum for people who want constructive advice, if you want to discuss the pros and cons of a particular subject then Humanities is a much better option and if that's what he wanted to discuss I would have moved the thread there.
I do not want this thread to degenerate the way the one in Humanities did.
The man isn't here asking if we agree or disagree with his views, he is asking how he should best deal with the problem, I want to keep this thread on that topic.

anna

hedgetrimmer · 03-03-2004 4:01pm

Fair points, duly noted and accepted. Sorry for the rpely here, but thought it best to have it wrapped up in public as started.

LegacyUser · 03-03-2004 4:11pm

Thanks for all the feedback.
After thinking about it alot in work today I've decided to help out my mate as much as possible. But not to influence his and his gf's decision. So I won't let him know my opinions on the situation, only listen to him and give him someone to bounce his thoughts off.

I'll help him with the money issue if he asks, I won't offer. I've come into a little bit of money lately so its not as if I'm going to be short of a few hundred euro that I know I will get back. His decisions are hard enough at the moment without having to worry about the number of zeros in his bank balance.

Question remains on whether or not to suggest to him to tell his parents and maybe her parents as well. But since they're both adults...I dunno.
Can't imagine one of my mates having a baby at this age, totally changes your life especially when its unplanned.

You are all very nice people.

Beruthiel · 03-03-2004 4:58pm

Originally posted by Un reg in ald
Question remains on whether or not to suggest to him to tell his parents and maybe her parents as well. But since they're both adults...I dunno

and get even more people involved for the headfuk?? no, make no suggestions whatsoever, they are both adults and will decide whats best for themselves

Nuttzz · 03-03-2004 5:36pm

lets be honest, they dont want the kid, if they did they wouldnt be talking like this or even thinking about "the boat".

IMHO its not fair on the kid if the parnets will always look on it as a mistake, no life is better than a sh1te one

Going Demented · 03-03-2004 6:33pm

Originally posted by Un reg in ald
I've no idea how much doctors fees and clinics and such cost for an abortion in England.

£500. My niece choose that route a few months ago and that was the cost in sterling.

Can't offer you any constructive advice. Hard position to be in. My niece confided in me and she was not choosing the abortion road, until her mother got involved. But it's hard when people put their "secrets" on you and want advice, hard to offer advice when you haven't walked in those shoes. All you can do is listen. Good luck.

RicardoSmith · 03-03-2004 7:53pm

Originally posted by Nuttzz
lets be honest, they dont want the kid, if they did they wouldnt be talking like this or even thinking about "the boat".

IMHO its not fair on the kid if the parnets will always look on it as a mistake, no life is better than a sh1te one

Well it can go either way. In life theres no sure thing.

MF2HD · 03-03-2004 8:52pm

Originally posted by Nuttzz
lets be honest, they dont want the kid, if they did they wouldnt be talking like this or even thinking about "the boat".

IMHO its not fair on the kid if the parnets will always look on it as a mistake, no life is better than a sh1te one

You can't necessarily say the child will be looked on as a mistake forever. I was in this very situation 7 years ago (didn't need to use contraception because it could never happen to ME lol), went so far as having clinic and everything booked. Came to the day before and couldn't go through with it.

It really is the couples own choice/decision to make.

I would stay out of their way, they could be looking for some one to give them the answers, instead of taking responsibility for their own actions.

Just a question, but how the hell do you have a "mix up" with contraception ffs. Sounds like they've had a few mix ups?

Michelangelo · 03-03-2004 9:49pm

Before all those pro-life religious nutters come rushing to tell them the devil will haunt them. Save it. Everyone has heard the arguments.

Would you ever get a brain and learn how to use it? Do you want to start a flamewar? That was an unacceptable comment. Why did you have to make such an idiotic, retarded statement?

I do not want any pro lifers getting invloved in this thread

Do not be so stupid. So because a person is Pro Life, they can not have an opinion on this matter? Ye, that is not discrimination at all. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

*I'm relatively new here, but this attitude angers me. Fair enough, if people want to discuss the pro's and con's of abortion, take it to Humanities or wherever it is supposed to go but for the love of God, don't make such stupid comments!!!!! *DUH!*

Victor · 04-03-2004 12:03am

I have a policy of not subsidising other people lifestyles.

They are adult and need to deal with the aftermath of decisions they made, whether informed or not, whether the result is good or bad. As they will be the ones dealing with the aftermath of the decision, they are the ones who should make it.

tinkerbell · 04-03-2004 7:36am

You said that they can't talk to their own parents about it coz both sets of parents wouldn't want them to go through with the abortion, and that's why they can't talk to them. So what difference does it make then by talkin to you, when you have exactly the same views? Or do they know this?

My advice would be stay out of it, you really can't help or influence their decision as it'll only come back to haunt you some day, and even they might turn on you if they think they made the wrong decision by listening to you. Really tiz somethin only they can decide on - tiz their problem 100%, if they need someone, jus listen, don't make any comments, and that way, you're safe. Tiz not bein selfish or anythin, it's jus that with a decision that big, it's better off them not getting influenced by anybody else.

Beruthiel · 04-03-2004 8:09am

Originally posted by Michaelangelo
Do not be so stupid. So because a person is Pro Life, they can not have an opinion on this matter? Ye, that is not discrimination at all. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

*I'm relatively new here, but this attitude angers me. Fair enough, if people want to discuss the pro's and con's of abortion, take it to Humanities or wherever it is supposed to go but for the love of God, don't make such stupid comments!!!!! *DUH!*

Michaelangelo
there will be no baiting other posters in this forum
keep on topic
B

fitz · 04-03-2004 9:38am

:rolleyes:

The Corinthian · 04-03-2004 9:48am

Originally posted by koneko
I agree with ruthie. No matter how you feel about abortion, it's their decision. I know it's a hard decision and that's probably why they're asking you, it's hard to take full responsibility and make decisions like that but they have to.

In telling him that he’s no right to impose or even express his contrary opinion on abortion, you are in effect saying that it is their right to choose, which to someone who would hold the position that the foetus is not just a ball of cells, would be contradictory to their beliefs, even if you see it that way.

So telling him that he should keep his pro-life opinions to himself is much the same as expressing a pro-choice opinion yourself, TBH.

If he is opposed to abortion, then he should say so if asked for advice. Of course, he’d better know why he’s opposed to abortion (rather than standard RC programming) because otherwise he’s not going to be terribly convincing. Likewise, if his flatmate looks to him for a loan to do this, he’s perfectly entitled to say no and explain why.

In fairness however, it really depends on how close he is to his flatmate. Do they go back a few years or are they just sharing for a few months or a year? At the end of the day, advice is cheap, but you should remember that it could also be the thin edge of the wedge in getting yourself completely embroiled.

LegacyUser · 04-03-2004 9:59am

Originally posted by The Corinthian
If he is opposed to abortion, then he should say so if asked for advice. Of course, he’d better know why he’s opposed to abortion (rather than standard RC programming) because otherwise he’s not going to be terribly convincing. Likewise, if his flatmate looks to him for a loan to do this, he’s perfectly entitled to say no and explain why.

I'm know my reasons why I'm opposed to abortion, just not happy explaining them to somone who obviously has no set ideas on the issue in case I influence him without him actually figuring it out for himself. Regarding the loan, I'm still undecided, if he asks me then I'll decide, I won't offer though.

Originally posted by The Corinthian
In fairness however, it really depends on how close he is to his flatmate. Do they go back a few years or are they just sharing for a few months or a year? At the end of the day, advice is cheap, but you should remember that it could also be the thin edge of the wedge in getting yourself completely embroiled.

I've known him for about 4 years, very good mates at this stage, have been sharing the house for about a year and a half, great fun and no problems.

We went to the local for a few pints last night, and even though he wasn't in great form we did have a bit of a chat about whats going on. I didn't explain my reasons for being against abortion because he didn't ask. I told him I'd help if he asked but that the real decision is between him and the girlfriend and that I'm sure they don't want 3rd parties sticking their respective oars in.

He seems a bit down and I think the 2 of them will have their decision made by the weekend. I'm still the only one who knows on his side, I think she has told one of her close friends. She did the usual "protective female who doesn't like her friends boyfriend" thing and texted him asking him how he could be so stupid etc etc.

ta

koneko · 04-03-2004 10:39am

Corinthian. No, I don't agree. I haven't said whether I'm pro-choice or pro-life and I don't think it's relevant. It's not his choice, he's not part of the decision and doesn't want to be I'm sure!
If he gives them advice and goes into "you shouldn't blah blah" and they listen to that advice, and end up regretting their decision, it will put an extra strain on their relationship. If his friend asks him specifically what his opinions are on abortion, sure, tell him, just don't impose your views on him or tell him what he should or shouldn't do (and you don't seem to be doing that at all so fair play). It's a very tricky subject for people to be asking you personal advice on

Wolfie · 04-03-2004 10:52am

Hmm, this is a sticky issue... My personal opinion of the issue is this:

They say that there was a mix up over contraception? She thought he would pull out? Pulling out is not a form of contraception. How dumb is that? And since they both did something dumb, they made a baby. Thats what happens when you ejaculate sperm/semen into a fertile woman. Now there is a baby inside the woman. The solution they are proposing is to destroy/kill the baby in England (because its not LEGAL according to Irish law).

On a more sympathetic note, I think they will both regret and be affected by abortion, particularly the female, for years to come. Many women who have abortions regret it, and if the two of them stay together, the abortion could ruin their relationship, or cast a dark shadow over them for the rest of their lives. I think they should have the baby. They are mad about each other, so they have a good chance of staying together. And I just think that 'casual' abortion is wrong. You cant just go and have unprotected sex with no contraception and have an abortion because you are pregnant. That is just wrong. Sorry Beruthiel, I know you dont want any pro-life statements, but I cant give advice on this without mentioning the moral side of it.

If you give advice/support to them regarding an abortion, and this causes them emotional problems, then they will turn it on you, and it will be your fault for telling them to rip the girls insides out and kill their baby. Even though you wanted the best for them, you will take flak if the whole thing goes 'tits-up' as they say.

I wish them the best through this difficult time and in whatever decision they make.

The Corinthian · 04-03-2004 10:56am

Originally posted by koneko
Corinthian. No, I don't agree. I haven't said whether I'm pro-choice or pro-life and I don't think it's relevant. It's not his choice, he's not part of the decision and doesn't want to be I'm sure!

The whole question of pro-choice or pro-life tends to be fairly black and white if one is of one opinion or the other. After all, if one is pro-choice then it is for them to make up their own minds whether to have an abortion or not, while if one is pro-life they would not have the right to decide to (from the pro-life perspective) kill another human being.

Thus morally, if one is pro-choice, it would be immoral to try to influence an individual’s (or couple’s) choice; however, if one is pro-life it would be equally immoral to allow a person to be killed though one’s inaction. From the pro-life perspective, it’s like telling someone not to try and convince a suicidal individual not to kill themselves or a homicidal individual no to kill another, because they should make up their own minds.

So, in a round about way both you and ruthie have declared your hands as partisan in this issue.

Mighty_Mouse · 04-03-2004 2:51pm

I posted and it hasnt shown. Im not typing my full answer again but basically:

""Would you ever get a brain and learn how to use it? Do you want to start a flamewar? That was an unacceptable comment. Why did you have to make such an idiotic, retarded statement?"""

I dont take too kindly to this remark.

Im completely entitled in my opinion to ask the numerous extremist pro-lifers to restrain from influencing this man or this couples decision. Fair enough the sentiment wasnt expressed in the most sensitive, loving and understanding manner. But then again it was aimed at those ppl who stand outside abortion clinics with placards etc etc ........

The mod "AFTER" my remark asked that it not be turned into a humanities issue but strictly personal advice. Im sorry if the above remark flies a little close to this line but theres no way I'm not going to respond to an attack as above.

ps

mickyangelo -- who the f**k do you think you are

usualsuspect · 04-03-2004 2:57pm

It sounds like these people should NOT be reproducing. Anyone who things 'withdrawal' is a method of contraception is seriously deluded. I would go for the <termination>, BUT make sure she gets some decent counselling before and after as it will scar her for life (emotionally) it is important that she be helped through this.

--edited a little--
SheroN

Beruthiel · 04-03-2004 2:59pm

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
to ask the numerous extremist pro-lifers to restrain from influencing this man or this couples decision

no Mighty_Mouse
that's the job of the moderators of this forum

as it clearly states in the CHARTER, if you have a problem with another poster, you report him to the moderator and not help to fan the flames, one more word out of either of ye and I'm banning you both

do not reply to this post
B

The Corinthian · 04-03-2004 3:11pm

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
Im completely entitled in my opinion to ask the numerous extremist pro-lifers to restrain from influencing this man or this couples decision. Fair enough the sentiment wasnt expressed in the most sensitive, loving and understanding manner.

Actually it sounded just as shrill and emotive as anything I’ve ever heard from the nutters with placards outside abortion clinics. Funny that, eh? :rolleyes:

It’s one thing to argue that this thread should not get bogged down in a discussion on pro-choice versus pro-life, but you can’t do that you define the discussion from a pro-choice perspective. That’s hypocritical.

Beruthiel · 04-03-2004 3:23pm

Un reg in ald

I believe this particular thread has gone as far as it can, I hope it has been helpful to you, I’m closing it before it degenerates any further.
If there are any further developments you wish to discuss on this issue, feel free to post up another thread
anna

Housemates GF is pregnant

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