Heating not working

irishguy

we have gas central heating, which was installed about 3 years ago and it hasnt worked fully ever. Sometimes when it comes on it will only heat the upstairs. The house is about 27years old and still has the original pipes. I have bledl the system a few times [one of the rads half fills with air] and this sometimes sorts it out, the other times i have to turn on and off the boiler a few time and play around with it. We have contacted the installer and they said its a problem with the old pipes and they need to be replaced [costing about €5,000] anyone have any idea beore i freeze to death?

pipers

we have gas central heating, which was installed about 3 years ago and it hasnt worked fully ever.
Was the complete system installed 3 years ago, or converted to gas?


Sometimes when it comes on it will only heat the upstairs.
Turn off all upstairs rads and see if the downstairs works.

What make/model boiler have you got?


If the heating system is 27 years old, is the heating pipework Gunbarrel or Copper?

irishguy

it was converted from coal to gas.
Turn off all upstairs rads and see if the downstairs works.
yes this works most of the time
its a glow worm micron boiler
its Gunbarrel piping

pipers

It looks like your system is sludged up. It’s a symptom of heating corrosion, possibly caused by the expansion pipe pitching into the feed and expansion pipe in the attic.

If the system (radiators, pipework and rad valves) is in a reasonable condition, the sludge may be removed by powerflushing the system.

Pipework will have to be modified to prevent pitching, and the system should be converted from open to sealed to improve circulation.

If the corrosion is too bad, unfortunately you will have to replace the heating system. I have seen 10 year old systems fail, requiring replacement.

Powerflushing is not for every plumber and has significant risks. The inside walls of the pipework and radiator may perforate, when the system is flushed.

However, if you are lucky this may work.

Flushing a heating system is not a DIY job

irishguy

so the corrosion from the pipes is blocking up the system? this is from old age i suppose? you couldnt recomend someone to do this in the Limerick area by any chance?

pipers

Its not from from old age, its bad system design and installation

Unfortunatly i dont know anyone from limerick who carrys out this type of work.

Im based in dublin, and there is very few of us who do powerflushing.

look here for more info on corrosion.

irishguy

bad system design by the original system or by the new system? roughly what would the cost be to do this to a 3 bed semi? thanx for all the help

pipers

its probably a combination of both,

Regarding the cost, its a lot less than what you have been quoted by your local installer.

mazza

I'm not a plumber but...

We had a similar sounding problem last Winter at home - might be of some use to you (or not!)

Basically, the upstairs radiators worked fine (loads of heat), but the downstairs ones were only ever lukewarm. That was lukewarm at best - some rads didn't have any heat in them at all.

Got the plumber out - he spoke about sludge building up in the system too. He drained it, no improvement at all.

In the end, we mapped out the entire heating system in the house ourselves, taking up floorboards to see pipes etc, noted temperature in rads in various scenarios (upstairs rads off, downstairs one etc). Its an old house, so there were two distinct lines of heating pipes - might not be as involved for you if system is newish.

Eventually we realised that the downstairs rads were being heated by the cooler water flowing out of the upstairs rads, rather than by "proper" hot water from the boiler. (Rads generally work by hot water from boiler flowing in one pipe, heat from water radiates out in to air, cooler water flows out other pipe back to boiler...I think!)

Got the plumber back, showed him the map of the system, explained our theory - he took a look and found a valve on a pipe which had somehow ended up in the wrong position. No water could flow to the downstairs radiators from the boiler - all they were getting was the cooler run-off from the upstairs rads. He opened the valve and all rads heated properly. (Note: the plumber turned out to be pretty useless - I think he should have spotted the problem himself).

Even if the pipes are old, I think you should be getting some kind of heat downstairs - AFAIK, the pipework may be inefficient and be wasting heat/money, but you still should be getting some heat downstairs.

Hope this is some help - just personal experience remember, not proper advice!!!



PS Just remembered: our neighbours piping sprung a leak outdoors between the boiler and the pipes in the house. As it was outside they didn't notice the leak for ages - just that the heating was really inefficient and costing a fortune!

Victor

Originally posted by mazza
PS Just remembered: our neighbours piping sprung a leak outdoors between the boiler and the pipes in the house. As it was outside they didn't notice the leak for ages - just that the heating was really inefficient and costing a fortune!

Presumably due to frost?

mazza

I don't know if it was frost / cold or just the pipes getting too old and weak - I only got the outline of the story TBH.

The pipe ran under the earth in the garden for a short distance from the boiler to the rads etc inside - the plumbers the neighbours (eventually) called in only found it by a process of elimination. Nasty...

Just a final thought for the original poster:

I think my plumber was unwilling to think about the problem (and possible solutions) too deeply as it was an old heating system and he was favouring the option of replacing it completely.

You should think about buying the Readers Digest DIY Book (hardback at about 32 euro from Woodies / other DIY shops) which has a very good section on heating and typical problems. You may not have the skills to fix the problem yourself, but it might give you an idea which you can take to a plumber for further investigation (or at least tell if you are being bull****ted!).

Its a great book to have if you do any DIY or own a house. Worth its weight in gold!

irishguy

i think it could be the sludge prob, ill ring a few plummers when i get a chance. thanx for all the replys

pipers

A typical symptom of sludge is the bottom third of a radiator being cooler than the top, and having to frequenly vent radiators.

The most common cause is the pump fitted in the wrong location, forcing water through the expansion pipe.

Let me know how you get on.

irishguy

plumer fixed it seemed to be no water in the tank or somthing