Underage Drinking

Splifz

I just wanted to get everyone's opinion on underage drinking.
There was a report on the news the other night saying that drinkers between the ages 15-17 will be alchoholics by the time their 25. Plus Ireland has the highest rate of underage drinkers in Europe.

Lenny

well the goverment has made a website called
http://www.coolchoices.ie
to give information about underage drinking
there is also another topic about underage drinking here

http://www.boards.ie/bulletin/Forum1/HTML/001533.html

Shinji

There's been a thread about this for ages on the Humanities board. However, just to throw in something here - any report stating that "drinkers between the ages 15-17 will be alchoholics by the time their 25" is clearly an utter load of toss. The vast, vast majority of people drink between 15 and 17, and oddly enough they don't become alcoholics. This kind of "fact" is made up at random in order to try and scare parents and young people alike, but lets face it; the young people are much more likely to see through it than the parents in a lot of cases.

It's a desperate attempt to demonise underage drinking in the same way that cannabis was demonised 80 years ago. I bet the "facts" which back up this assertion that underage drinkers become alcoholics are that the majority of alcoholics surveyed used to drink when they were underage. This is EXACTLY the same logic that is used when people claim that cannabis leads people on to using hard drugs; the "facts" which back up this one being that most people who take hard drugs used to take cannabis. Both cases conveniently ignore the fact that the overwhelming majority of underage drinkers didn't become alcoholics, and that the overwhelming majority of cannabis users didn't move on to hard drugs. You might as well point out that 100% of alcoholics used to drink water. BAN THE DRINKING OF WATER!

Sigh.

boddah

alcoholics by 25? that doesn't sound right. if that were the case methinks we would see alot more alcoholics on this fair isle...

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"you'd be paranoid too, if everyone was out to get you..."

TwoShedsJackson

I just moved out of a place where one of the guys sharing there is 24 years old and an alcoholic.

Binges, coming in at 3a.m. every night pi$$ed beyond belief, drinking first thing in the mornings, d.t.'s when there was no drink about - the works.

When he developed the habit of putting food on the grill then going into the front room and falling asleep leaving the grill to incinerate the food and belch smoke for ages - resulting in our neighbours kicking the front door in at 5.40 one a.m. - is when I decided to move to a more peaceful environment.

You can be an alcoholic by 25 no problem.

Frodo@work

I agree with you lot. but there are many people under the age of 25 with drink problems.the only problem is that its acceptibale to be a complete **** head in collage etc. i think most people around the age of 25 are going to no at least 1 person that they suspect of being an alcoholic.
as for under age drinking ,i dont think it would be that hard to stap it out. revoke liscences of the pubs/ off-liscenses that sell booze to kids. fine adults that supply booze.introduce an id scheme.all seems pretty logical to me.
dont get me wrong i went on the **** as kid, but there is a problem and it needs to be addressed.

Shinji

I agree that there is a problem, I just don't think that talking sh|te like this is the way to solve it. It's also entirely true that people can be alcoholics by 25 - hell, I knew one person who was quite distinctly an alcoholic before he was 20, and to the best of my knowledge still hasn't dealt with the problem fully (in and out of detox like a yoyo). Substance addiction is never pretty, be it alcoholics, stoners, or even heavy smokers; a mate of mine has a cocaine problem, and that's REALLY nasty sh|t.

This doesn't change the fact that the report quoted above is lying propaganda crap.

Cake Fiend

You could point out that most junkies smoke or smoked tobacco or drank beer.

Shinji

Most computer games addicts eat pizza, I say we ban pizza and run those slimy Dominos f*ckers out of the country.

tHE vAGGABOND

most games addicts clearly do faaaaaaar too many drugs too, eh shinji

neuro-praxis

Six months ago I moved here to this tiny, back-end rural town in Sligo. The underage drinking problem here seems to be way more intense than in Dublin. And once they hit legal age, it seems to totally spiral.

They start drinking here at about the age of 13 first of all, the same way as in Dublin, with cans and other crap, which they get older people to buy them. At 15, they are being served in the local pubs.

There is nothing at all to do in this place except drink. Even I can admit that I drink far more frequently since being here, as there is nowhere else to go unless you have a car.

There have been 3 deaths due to drink driving since I moved here - nobody pays any attention at all to the drinkdriving laws here, and I have been laughed at when I refused lifts with drunk people.

My peers in 6th year (between 16 and 18) get drunk possibly three times a week, and go on all day drinking binges if there are school breaks, long weekends, birthdays, christenings, weddings, funerals...all of these events are frequent here. The guys around here generally did not go to college, and are labouring or whatever, and have money to take out the local girls (such a horrible stereotype) pretty often - always to the pub to get smashed.

Although I would not call these folks alcoholics, I would firmly believe that they have drinking problems. Actually, rereading that, they probably *are* alcoholics. The overall culture that has been allowed to develop in Ireland is to blame. I enjoy drinking in moderation, but hangovers, drunkenness, being sick in toilets....these things never enter my world. People around here are so unwilling to do anything other than drink. They can start ona ny average night at about 7pm, and continue on at the local nightclub (such a dive) until about 4am.

Alot of my peer's parents are alcoholics or "heavy drinkers". I just find this whole issue so disturbing. Although when I was underage I looked far older and drank, I still believe that underage drinking should be clamped down on properly. Not in this half-assed way.

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Setting is Dogbert's office. Wally sits across from him.

Dogbert: You can't expect your employer to take care of you forever, Wally. Don't expect raises, don't expect to be trained and don't expect a pension.
Wally: That's depressing. I need a sourball. (*reaches for sweet*)
Dogbert: Those are marbles wrapped in cellophane.

Paladin

If people could only spend their money on DSL instead of drink....

Paladin

What am I saying? I love drink!

Im not stupid about it tho. Moderation.
I know a few people who have drink problems. Everyone does. Its simply a drinking culture in Ireland. I would stipulate that every individual should have the cop on to moderate. Some just dont. Its probably not going to make too much of a difference if they dont have any cop on when they are 15 or 25, if they dont they just dont.

And this isnt just an Irish problem. Every western country in the world have their own drinks problem. England have drink problems, and an image of being 'louts' and 'football hooligans' because of their antics abroad more so than in England itself.
America has its drink problems, but its overshadowed cause they have guns (duuuuh nice un you eejits).
France, Germany, Italy etc. Drinking age 16. You think they dont have the same problem as us? They do. There is not a significant difference in their drink problems as opposed to ours. Perhaps we have more because of a rural lifestyle, perhaps they have more due to more cities (percentage wise, numbers wise they obviously have a lot more).

And as to the fact Ireland has the highest rate of underage drinkers in Europe? ******. Drinking age = 16 in most of Europe. Do the math. Its part of the culture in europe for their kids to drink wine at dinner. Are they gonna becoming raging alcaholics cause of that?

Nah. Most of them will drink in moderation. As most people in Ireland. Some wont.

Simple answer = moderate. Impossible to get all people to do.

Paladin

Not that I agree with underage drinking.
What fun is there being an adult if kids can drink too?

Lenny

lol Paladin
if that was the case
DSL would be out tomorrow

boddah

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Binges, coming in at 3a.m. every night pi$$ed beyond belief, drinking first thing in the mornings, d.t.'s when there was no drink about - the works.

When he developed the habit of putting food on the grill then going into the front room and falling asleep leaving the grill to incinerate the food and belch smoke for ages - resulting in our neighbours kicking the front door in at 5.40 one a.m. - is when I decided to move to a more peaceful environment.

You can be an alcoholic by 25 no problem.[/B]</font>

i wasn't implying that you couldn't become an alcoholic by 25, just reacting to the comment made saying underage drinkers WILL be alcoholics by the time they are 25.

in secondary school it seemed that v. few people didn't drink before the legal age, but that doesn't mean they went on mad binges.

after all, the minimum age to get into a bar in the US is 21, and they have a high incidence of alcoholics...

maybe drinking in moderation at a younger age can be a healthy thing?

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"you'd be paranoid too, if everyone was out to get you..."

po0k

Damn right, I see the age limit in this country as being a problem in tackeling this problem *in the long run*. We as a society in Ireland have a reputation for being drunks, one which I feel is unfair. In the majority of other 'mainland' countries the leagal age is 16, there is a healthy attitude to drinking alcohol, and the children are taught to RESPECT the drink. In this country it seems that drink is forbidden, *most* adults drink alcohol and children see this going on but it is not explained to them. We also have a tradition of consuming more spirits than wine ( red wine in particular, which is actually healthy for you when taken lightly with meals).
All this make the 'forbidden fruit' seem more tempting to ...ahem...us younger adults and as we only have small opportuinities for getting this 'fruit' we try to take as much as we can whenever possible, because its not allowed and could be seen as an act of rebellion....etc. etc.
My solution, ditch this stupid farcical notion of funding ridiculously out-dated websites and scare-mongering parents and simply reduce the age limit to 16 or even 17, and deffinately introduce stricter measures for licence holders and a compulsory National ID scheme...
while at the same time providing much needed and under-funded sports and recreation facilities for each section of the 12-18 age-group. An 18-yearold doesn't enjoy the smae activities as a 12 year old ffs [/ENDRANT]
Syxpak (a self confess moderate drinker who enjoys chugging back pints of cider and/or beer if the night and/mood is right :P)
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"may You Live In 'Interesting' Times"

SantaHoe

Regardless of whether someone drinks before their 18th birthday... If they become alcoholics at any age, there must be other problems at work.

I drank (now and then) between 15 and 17 (who didn't?!), and I rarely look at the stuff now... I just can't see the attraction of being too pìssed to stand or see.
I seriously doubt I'll have any kind of drink dependency by the time I reach 25.
But like a lot of people, I've met some guys my age that I suspect are somehow constantly drunk!

It's just a shame people can't be a bit more imaginative when it comes to arranging social outings... "hmmm, how about the pub?"

[This message has been edited by Dead{o}Santa (edited 21-02-2001).]

Lucy_la_morte

I doubt Ireland has the highest or lowest underage drinking figures in Europe or anywhere. Basically because i'm never asked do I drink, have i been under the influence, or anything. Plus I don't drink on the streets, I drink in establishments which must mean the people would assume I am of legal age. Which makes me wonder about the accuracy of any figures.

As Dead{o}Santa stated, it doesn't matter about the age of the person, you could be an alcoholic by the time your 16 or by the time your 66, it's all a matter of how your life is going and how you feel about things.

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J'ai dormi sous l'eau.

Lucy la morte.

[This message has been edited by Lucy_la_morte (edited 22-02-2001).]

LegacyUser

So what Point are u makin Lucy u are a underage drinker r u aint a underage drinker r just talkin out ur **** .

Lucy_la_morte

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Lucy_la_morte:
I drink in establishments which must mean the people would assume I am of legal age. </font>

Obviously stating I am a drinker, the point was about the accuracy of any figures stating that Ireland has the highest rate of underage drinking. Yet me, nor anyone else around here probably, has been questionned about their age and drinking habits by any polls. It wouldn't matter if i was of the correct drinking age (which I am not incidently), but more the fact I have never been questionned about this. Could also be said that I am speaking out of my ****.

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J'ai dormi sous l'eau.

Lucy la morte.

[This message has been edited by Lucy_la_morte (edited 22-02-2001).]

black_wizardd

neuro, i 2 am from this hellhole of inbreed towny nackers, ie sligo, im not from the town im from about 17 miles outside it a wee village called riverstown, out there people drink from the age of 13/14 upwards (including me) i drank when i was 13 (of course the beer was fleased ) most of the youth in the town get their elders 2 by them the booze, i have been asked loads of times to buy multiple naggins of vodka for 14 year olds!!! not a fu<kin chance, by the age of 15 you can get served in the pub urself, thats how pathetic my town is, 15, for fu<k sake i think the barmen must gouge out their eyes with spoons and implant marbles 2 replace them, all the kids i c gettin served dont look 18 at all, its just that riverstown is so small that the pubs need the business, besides theres only 1 cop that comes around once every full moon so their never gonna get caught doin it, there's SO MANY alcos in my town from 18 year upwards nearly every1 in the town has a drinkin problem cause they started so young and jsut went on pure binges alot of them have no future and will b stuck in the town forever, luckily im more of a moderate drinker, i rather a couple of beers with my m8s that all out binges, the reson for all this drinkin in riverstown is that theres NOTHING 2 do, absolutley nothin, except go 2 the pub and play pool, which eventually leads 2 goin 2 the pub for beer because it becomes a routine, its not gonna change any time soon as far as i can c, the town is damned by drinky winkys...

Splifz

i meant to say that drinkers between 15-17 that drink every weekend friday, saturday and sunday will be alcho's by the time there 25.

C B

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Lucy_la_morte:
Yet me, nor anyone else around here probably, has been questionned about their age and drinking habits by any polls. It wouldn't matter if i was of the correct drinking age (which I am not incidently), but more the fact I have never been questionned about this.
</font>

Time to take statistics 101.
When conducting polls not everybody is asked. If that was the case it'd be called a census. It's a simple concept of random sampling and it produces very accurate figures.

The main difficulty with the statistical compilation of the report is that it contains no variable for cultural influence i.e. Irish teenagers are more likely to over state the amount/regularity of their drinking where as continental kids will understate.

In relation to the concept of a large number of alcoholics the figures quoted are likely to be quite true. a certain percentage of the population are genetically predisposed to addiction if they are exposed to an addictive substance at a young age they will become, in this case, alcoholics.

neuro-praxis

I have a couple of comments to make.

I certainly *do* agree that our reputation as heavy drinkers is justified. I see it around me every single day. Just because the label is ugly to hear does not mean its not true!

We *do* have the highest rates of under age drinking in Europe, apparently. This is something we should be ashamed of. I know that it is a good idea to provide activities and venues for young people to amuse themselves, but let's be realistic here.

The healthy attitude to alcohol has got to begin at home. Around here they tried to set up youth groups for the local teenagers but nobody showed up. Then these same teenagers complain of having nothing to do. The reality is - they don't *want* to do anything else. A whole attitude change has got to develop within our culture first...when drinking stops being associated with "being cool" people will venture into other things.

People might think that me and BlackWizard are exaggerating about our hometowns in Sligo, but we aren't. I lived in Dublin all my life (Lucan) and the problem was definitely not as serious there.

I have no idea what the solution is. Get strict about serving underage drinkers?? - I think at this point it would send things flying arseways if we lower the drinking limit. In France, where there is a far more relaxed attitude to drinking, they have a much better situation. And their limit is lower. but because of the vast culture differences, the same kind age limit would be disastrous here.

At my house the liquor cabinet was never locked. I drank wine with my parents from about the age of 7 or 8 (I thought it was foul, by the way ) and have been drinking reasonable amounts with them since about 15 or 16. As a result, it never held any fascination for me, and I have consequently never been drunk.

I like drink, I like pubs, I hate drunkenness and I hate drunk little 15 year old girls teetering around on their high heels.

SheroN

Shinji with his 2 bottles of vodka....and his jim morrision impressions out the back...eh vagga???..

DiscoStu

neuro-praxis, how long have you been out of lucan? I think lucan could easily compare with the likes of ballinasloe or the places in sligo you mentioned. All you have to do is set foot into the village in lucan past 8pm most evenings and you will see gangs of 13/14/15 year olds ****ed roaming the streets. And lucan is supposed to be a nice area.
Also when one of your dads friends is beaten by a gang of underage drunks and a rock is fired through your front window by the same group its hard to deny there is a problem.

As it was siad earlier its not that these fools have nothing to do, its they dont want to do anything else but drink. Our culture has bred these idiots and the only thing that will change it is a prolonged series of measures to change the idea that being buckled in public is a good thing.
Look at what has happened with drink driving. I doubt that there is many people between the ages of 18 to 25 who would consider doing it, while the parents of that age group would still see nothing wrong with it. It was changed because of sustained campaigns of anti drunk driving promotions over the last 15 or so years.
So in conclusion a pointless debate on prime-time, some tv ads, and a website are not going to solve the problem. These people are finished, there is no hope for them, let them drink themselves to the liver and bowel cancer wards in our hospitals, to the insurance firms when they fall over. Concentrate on greating a new generation who dont see alchohol as their god.

Now where did i put my vodka?

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<sig>Insert witty signature here</sig>

neuro-praxis

I am out of Lucan 6 months now.

I know what you wrote about Lucan is true. But I was writing really, in terms of the people I knew in Lucan and the people I know now. In Lucan there were like 150 people in my year at school, and only a few of them would have been serious wasters who got drunk every week. just a handful. whereas here, everyone is like that - I don't have any friends here that do anything except drink. I should mention too that there are only 20 people in my year here. No non-drinkers at all.

Basically what I mean to say is that the problem is worse in rural areas because there is a higher ratio of over-drinking under-age people to regular teenagers in the country.

I know drunken teenagers are all over Lucan. But it has hit me harder here because I can't find any people who are like me - interested in doing other things apart from pubbing and then going to seafield, the local dump nightclub, on Saturdy nights. Life is far more depressing in sligo than in Dublin.

If you don't like the people around you here - tough. you're stuck with them! (but of course, they're not all bad. apparently )

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Give me back my towel. I'll sue.

vespaisian

I think if you look at the number of 17yo's who don't think you can have a good time without alcohol it shows most a lot of them already are alcoholics. Personally I gave up alcohol at 17 after a few unpleasent experiences.

Baz_

disco stu needs a few more discos i think.

Still neuro most of your time is spent here amongst the other boarders, as can be seen by your post count.

You should start some club yourself, a drinking alternatives club, and have the first meeting in a pub.... wait that would defeat the purpose.

Lets just face it the whole country is fupped up, but then again there really is nothing to do no matter where you live, just more or less pubs depending on the size of the town.

I don't have any solutions but as regards the ads and website, well it's a start isn't it. A fairly ****ty start in terms of the website but it is a start.

Baz_

yeah but bowling cinema et al, cost a good bit of money and at most last 2 hours (usually), and also if you join a club, sports or otherwise, they do tend to have their social nights in the pub (unless of course its the AA, tehe).

Shiminay

Well, I didn't start drinking untill I was almost 18 - my choice - no one preasured me into it or anything. The pressure and boredom arguements are the best - what else you gonna do?

Luckily in Castlebar we have a cinema, bowling alley, go-karting as well as numerous sports clubs to go to, even still alcohol plays an important part in the social life.

What's a bigger problem is drug abuse - so much so, one of the night clubs is being forced to close for nearly a week because of 1) underage drinking and 2) drug abuse. The same club has apparantly let one of it's top DJ's go because he was too much of an attraction to people who may be doing drugs (i.e. pill heads). Now, all the crowd's just moved to where that DJ guy's gone cause he was such a big attraction.

There's definitely a noticable difference in the club (not to mention it's a hell of a lot more empty).

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All the best,

Dav
@B^)

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Prepare yourself - The Beefy King stirs from his slumber...</font>