Overscan problems on NTL MMDS Digital

Gwynston

I'm on NTL's digital MMDS service in Galway and I noticed for the past few days a lot of programmes on the terrestrial channels (Irish and UK) where the left and right edges of the picture seem to be chopped off. It's especially noticeable with some adverts where a long slogan stretches right across the screen.

It's almost as if these are widescreen images which instead of being broadcast with black bars top and bottom (as is the case with many adverts) have been zoomed in and cropped at the sides.

I'm aware that from time to time NTL source their feeds differently for various reasons, but in recent months I've been pleased to see them broadcasting with bars top and bottom so that I can zoom in myself with my widescreen TV. I much prefer this to a pan&scan broadcast, and many programmes are being shot these days in a wide aspect.

Anyone know what's up with NTLs broadcasts at the moment?

watty

In theory everything should be transmitted on "digital" as is, i.e. animorphic or not.

Then on the Digital Receiver you should have 3 choices:
1) RAW (often wrongly labelled 16:9 but see below)
2) Crop (often wrongly labelled Pan & Scan, it isn't, it just cropped and resampled horizontally)
3) Letterboxed (only if animorphic flag is set. Image resampled vertically)

Some 4:3 sets actually do true Widescreen. They reduce the scan height if SCART or Line23 or user menu says "do 16:9". They do give a true WS picture. So option 1 is not just for WS TVs.


NTL often use feeds where intsead of having the digital receiver set to "RAW" it is set to Crop or Letterbox. Both are wrong.

Some feeds (e.g. analog) may be cropped or resampled from 16:9 to 14:9 or 4:3 and thus look odd.

For some daft reason the BBC often transmits 4:3 material in a 16:9 animorphic frame:
* On a WS set this saves nothing as a WS TV can do whatever the user wants with 4:3

* ON a 4:3 TV with receiver set to "crop" you get a full picture, but at reduced sharpness to a 4:3 transmission.

* On a 4:3 TV with receiver set to letterbox you get reduced sharpness and a black boarder on all four sides, and picture is smaller.

* On a Good 4:3 TV with WS mode, with receiver set to RAW/16:9(as it should be) you get same picture as on a WS TV, the sides have black bars and height is shrunk giving a perfectly sharp 4:3 picture as on a WS TV but less sharpa and smaller than if it was a 4:3 transmission.


NTL Ireland appear to understand little of this. hence "mad" stuff on NTL digital.

And of course if you Satellite/MMDS/Cable digital receiver/decoder has "wrong" setting and /or the BBC is doing its silly stuff with 4:3 in animorphic frame, then everything is less than Optimal.

Did you know that animorphic transmission is possible on Analog? It isn't ever done as too many ordinary 4:3 TV owners *might* complain about distorted picture, but given the number of folk that *make* a 4:3 picture "fill" a WS TV frame or have Digital receivers at wrong settings, I dunno. RTE ought to experiment with one late night movie a week transmitted animorphic. No equipement changes required!

Don't beleive it? Well find an animorphic program on your Satellite/MMDS/Cable set-top box, set menu to 16:9 TV set and record on ordinary VHS. Play back via aerial and on a WS TV it is correct shape only if you select 16:9.

So what does a 16:9 mode VHS do that an ordinary one doesn't? Simply records and regenerates the animorphic flag. ANY VHS (or S-VHS preferably) will record animorphic ...

Gwynston

Originally posted by LurkingIcon
NTL often use feeds where intsead of having the digital receiver set to "RAW" it is set to Crop or Letterbox. Both are wrong.

I think this is the problem I've been seeing because I have not changed my STB or TV settings, but some pictures have been coming through cropped at the sides, even though they're full frame vertically (no black bars top and bottom in 4:3).

I hate using my Sony widescreen's "smart" mode to stretch a 4:3 image to 16:9. They're better than a few years ago, but still look naff to me, so I prefer to watch 4:3 in the original aspect. It means I'm not getting full use of my TV, but it looks better IMO. Often I zoom in to 14:9 which loses a bit off the top and bottom, but fills more of the screen (not good for snooker though). This is where the current problem is very noticeable because lots of programmes are made in (approx) 14:9 these days with thin bars top and bottom when watched in 4:3, so are ideal for zooming on my TV.

God knows where NTL have been sourcing their images lately for the terrestrial channels, because they're ending up cropped on MMDS digital in Galway. And the picture quality has been poor.

We were watching "6th Sense" on the weekend and the P&S picture looked rediculous with so many scenes where 2 people are having a conversation with one or other of them constantly off-screen with the image scanning back and forth!

It's obvious which channels they get direct off digital satellite e.g. E4 comes through in anamorphic widescreen, so I have to switch the TV to "wide" mode like when I watch DVDs.

watty

Unless you have a projector with a motorised screen you need to accept "black bars"

After a great deal of thought I bought a *GOOD* 28" 4:3 "tube" TV with true 16:9 mode for EUR350 when *poor* 28" 16:9 TV was over EUR 750

(A 32" or 36" 16:9 Sony would have been nice).


It does same quality and almost same size 16:9 picture as decent 16:9 "tube" TV, by simply scanning the tube as if it was the 16:9 shape (so bars at top and bottom are empty glass, not wasted lines like on set-top box or DVD player "letterbox" mode for ordinary 4:3 TV).

And of course for VHS tapes and all Irish TV and any old UK TV programs and 99% of non-BBC FTA statellite (I get 16 or 17 satellites) you get a 4:3 picture same size and quality as a 32" or 36" approx WS TV would give.

A good budget solution. What it *can't* do is zoom STUPID material, like 4:3 image "window boxed" by the broadcaster into a 16:9 frame. Except of course we have a border all the way round. Selecting 4:3 Crop on the Satellite reciever will fix it, (at expense of quality), to fit "full size", but this is buried down in sub menus...

Since any 2.35:1 OAR DVD will have black bands even on a WS set, it is not a bad solution.

We do see the tiny bands on a 1.85:1 DVD as this is slightly wider than 16:9. Most WS TV users don't notice due to overscan. Vertically, of course in animorphic mode we could be said to have mega underscan!