That twerp for LIONS coach !

hallelujajordan

I'm not sure if it'll be nearly as much fun supporting the Lions next year with Woodward at the helm .. . . Shame Eddie didn't get the nod !!

GreenHell

arse he might be put he knows his stuff and is ruthless about winning.

uberwolf

no logical reason IMO to choose Eddie, Sir Clive has got the record. Just hope he chooses the lions team, not teh english team in red shirts.:mad:

bucks73

Woodward is definitely the right choice and I cant see him doing what Graham Henry did bringing loads of English players just becuase he is the national coach.

daveirl

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hallelujajordan

Yeh yeh . . . one can't but admire his coaching ability . . . but he's an annoying little bugger . ..

Hairy Homer

Many successful Lions sides are dominated by players from the top national side of the era.

The Lions side that won a Test series in New Zealand in 1971 was largely Welsh. Of the 18 players it used in tests there were Ten Welshmen, three Irishmen, three Englishmen and two Scots.

Three years later, the unbeaten side in South Africa was slightly more representative: 17 players used in Tests
Six Welshmen, Four Englishmen, Four Scots and Three Irishmen.

suppafly

well he is a pretty good coach but he is pretty annoying too. I hear dhe said that O'Connel and O'Callaghan were too superb 2nd rower's so he could pick them. Thye're easily better than Ben Kay and Danny Grewcock anyway!

Sangre

Yeah, he won't miss the fac the Irish squad arguably had the best lineout in the World Cup.

Is the coach always one from the Lions countries?

MarVeL

Don't mention the war Sangre. And definitely don't mention Graham Henry

Trojan

Yeah, not mad impressed with that. I guess we can't say much until we see what happens in the 6N and what kinda squad he picks, but I'm not optimistic about the number of Irish.

daveirl

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The Brigadier

Originally posted by hallelujajordan
That English twerp for LIONS coach !

Well that english Twerp did just win the World Cup....Dumbass....And why the **** is he annoying?

daveirl

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jerenaugrim

I'd say Woodward might surprise people. There are 2 6Ns to go, and England will prob go backwards a bit. Irish players- BO'D, PO'C, Geordan, John Hayes, Denis Hickie, Rob Henderson ('cause of his experience, if he gets a good run), Kevin Maggs (squad player), RO'G. Trevor Brennan, anyone?

The Brigadier

Originally posted by daveirl
No-one said he was a poor coach, but the annoyingness and arrogance and all round smugness of Sir Clive can't be disputed.

The man refuses to recognise that anyone but English players are any good, whines about how the rules are interpreted when they aren't interpreted in a way England would like and yet tells the whole rest of the world to stuff it when we start giving out about boring boring England.

Will I go on...

Yes It can be disputed. England are the best team on the planet, believing it is not arrogance.

Having the guts and conviction to stand up for England rather than take it on the chin is the mark of a winner...

I think you have a large case of sour grapes....Best to use them to make wine to wash down that chip on your shoulder!

hallelujajordan

Yes It can be disputed. England are the best team on the planet, believing it is not arrogance.

yeh . . arrogance is the way they behaved when they won the 6N in dublin but failed in the Grand slam . . . or the way they refused to accept the Calcutta cup in Edinburgh . .

I have no dispute about either Englands greatness or Clives supreme coaching ability but I think he is a smug little sh1t . . .and thinking that does not make me a "dumbass"

daveirl

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The Brigadier

Watch coverage of Rugby games from Ireland, or any of the antipodean three and you will see commentators do anything but pay a compliment to an English player.

Is that them being smug gits? All though the world cup, England were being criticised left right and centre by the Media in Ireland. Clive Woodward simply has the balls to stand up for England.

When the Irish team advanced on the Kiwi Haka I think in 1992? (I could be corrected here) was that not disrespectful? The kiwi haka is of great importance to the New Zealanders, and this caused great upset at the time...

England after allready being told to stand to one side before the Dublin game (by irish stewards) were then asked to move. (I can't recall any team lining up for an international and then being asked to move)...Not surprisingly they took this to be a show of gamesmanship and refused...Big deal.....

Oh and if the English media referred to any Irish person at all as "that Irish Twerp" you would be up in arms with your violins out taking great exception. Referring to Clive Woodward as "that English twerp" shows a chip on your shoulder - if you think he is a twerp that is one thing - why is his nationality of importance here?

You and far too many people in Ireland have a chip on theri shoulder regarding England - get over it dumbass!

daveirl

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The Brigadier

Well I made my points clearly above. I certainly think I can do more than insult you. But unfortunatly after 15 years in Ireland, I am sick of the anti-English sentiment displayed by far too many people in Ireland. This knee jerk reaction against anything that is English.

I called hallelujajordan a dumbass, for calling Clive Woodwood an "English twerp", you backed him up which certainly shows that you see no problem in this slur...

If a irish person was referred to as an "Irish twerp" in England, there would be accusations of racism...

sound_wave

If a irish person was referred to as an "Irish twerp" in England, there would be accusations of racism...

going a bit too far there bud dont ya think.

hallelujajordan

Originally posted by James Melody

I called hallelujajordan a dumbass, for calling Clive Woodwood an "English twerp", you backed him up which certainly shows that you see no problem in this slur...

If a irish person was referred to as an "Irish twerp" in England, there would be accusations of racism...

I wholeheartedly apologise . . . . his Englishness is incidental to him being a twerp . . .

MarVeL

Just one small correction there re that Haka incident. I've talked this over with several New Zealanders and so far not one of them remembers that particular incident in any negative way (although that may have something to do with the fact they went on to beat us again). Generally the reaction is that the Haka is a challenge to battle and that that was a very good response.

On the other point it would be very very hard to look at an alternate to Woodward for the Lions. The only point that might have allowed anyone else in was his insistence on having his own backroom team. He is probably the leading coach in any of the 4 countries at the moment (even allowing for squad strength). He is also very annoying but he will probably give the Lions the best chance of winning so I guess we'll just have to live with it and keep our fingers over the mute buttons

Trojan

daveirl, James - handbags at dawn.

There's no doubt there's an unfair anti-English sentiment in this country - but some of us succeed in breaking out of that way of thinking.

There are some personalities who are (unfortunately) associated with the England team, e.g. Woodward, Johnson, Back, who are strongly disliked for their actions and statements, not their nationality per se. As someone pointed out, Ferguson is a Scot - he's thought of in the same way as Sir Clive.

Al.

Villain

Originally posted by hallelujajordan
I wholeheartedly apologise . . . . his Englishness is incidental to him being a twerp . . .

I disagree going on past experience I'd say it's not incidental at all.

As a mate of mine once said while we were in London on a piss up

"England would be a grand country, if it wasn't so full of English"
Oh and aplogies if I offend anyone but I'l stop disliking the English when they hand back the 6 counties they stole by murder!

Trojan

Originally posted by irish1
"England would be a grand country, if it wasn't so full of English"
Oh and aplogies if I offend anyone but I'l stop disliking the English when they hand back the 6 counties they stole by murder!

This is not welcome on this board. Take it to politics, or wherever else you want but not here.

We're talking about rugby, the Lions, and Clive Woodward - not the history of Ireland.

Cheers,
Al.

Villain

Originally posted by Trojan
This is not welcome on this board. Take it to politics, or wherever else you want but not here.

We're talking about rugby, the Lions, and Clive Woodward - not the history of Ireland.

Cheers,
Al.

I appreciate that and aplogise but I wasn't the one who bought up the subject.

uberwolf

just thinking, Woodward proved this weekend that he isn't sentimental or blind to form players. Does this have repurcussions for his Lions selection? If he's capable of seeing a player playing well and discarding members of his world cup team to make way then an Irish player should have no difficulty getting his place if he deserves it. Robinson playing inside O'Driscoll anyone? How much space would that give O'Driscoll...

Or do people really believe Woodward isn't that pragmatic...

Doc

Woodward was the only real option, you couldn’t give it to anyone else after his side won the world cup unless he was asked and didn’t want it.

Yes he is arrogant and he instils this arrogance into his team, but for his team this is a good thing (even if every other country dislikes them for it). If you have ever played on a team that every time they played 100% believed that they were the better side and would win then you would know that 9 times out of 10 they do.

As for Woodward picking the team, I honestly believe he will pick the best players available to him because more then anything I think he would want to win not just have as many of his nations players on the team as possible.

daveirl

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Sangre

Originally posted by James Melody
Watch coverage of Rugby games from Ireland, or any of the antipodean three and you will see commentators do anything but pay a compliment to an English player.

I have honestly never noticed this, coming up to the World Cup, England were recognised throughout world media (except Australia) as being front runners.

I have never heard an Irish commentator insult a player regardless of nationality, only point out illegal/unfair/unsportsmanship behaviour.

The Brigadier

Originally posted by irish1
I disagree going on past experience I'd say it's not incidental at all.

As a mate of mine once said while we were in London on a piss up

"England would be a grand country, if it wasn't so full of English"
Oh and aplogies if I offend anyone but I'l stop disliking the English when they hand back the 6 counties they stole by murder!

This is the sort of neanderthal attitude oh too prevalent from my experience in Ireland.....

Villain

Originally posted by James Melody
This is the sort of neanderthal attitude oh too prevalent from my experience in Ireland.....

Would love to reply to that, but its way off topic.

But feel free to start a thread somewhere and I'l reply;)

Jilm

Might be an idea to lock this thread or at least bin the OT stuff.

Trojan

James, I appreciate your opinion and don't disagree with it. However this is not the venue to discuss this topic Please continue to post on this board, but stay on-topic - thanks.

Irish1, I don't agree with your viewpoint. However, you're welcome to hold your own views. Just don't bring them back into the rugby board - on topic posts only from you also in future please.

If you guys really want to discuss this topic, try the Politics board - I'd be interested in such a debate if you managed to keep it rational and not slip into name calling.

If *this* board degenerates into rascist abuse then increasingly long bans will be imposed on the perpetrators.