A letter from the prophets

Yavvy

A letter from 1884 when Dr Croke wrote to Michael Cusack. Thought it was timely considering the time of year to remind us all what the GAA is about . . .


The Palace,
Thurles
December 18th, 1884

My Dear Sir,

I beg to acknowledge the receipt of your communication inviting me to become a patron of the Gaelic Athletic Association, of which you are it appears, the Hon. Secretary. I accede to your request with the utmost pleasure.

One of the most painful, let me assure you, and at the same time, one of the most frequent recurring, reflections that, as an Irishman, I am compelled to make in connection with the present aspect of things in this country, is derived from the ugly and irritating fact that we are daily importing from England, not only her manufactured goods, which we cannot help doing, since she has practically strangled our own manufacturing appliances, but together with her fashions, her accents, her vicious literature, her music, her dances, and her manifold mannerisms, her games also, and her pastimes, to the utter discredit of our own grand national sports, and to the sore humiliation, as I believe, or every genuine son and daughter of the old land.

Ball-playing, hurling, football-kicking according to Irish rules, 'casting', leaping in various ways, wrestling, handy-grips, top-pegging, leap-frog, rounders, tip-in-the-hat, and all such favorite exercises and amusements amongst men and boys may now be said to be not only dead and buried, but in several localities to be entirely forgotten and unknown. And what have we got in their stead? We have got such foreign and fantastic field sports as lawn tennis, polo, croquet, cricket, and the like – very excellent, I believe, and health-giving exercises in their way, still not racy of the soil, but rather alien, on the contrary, to it, as are indeed, for the most part, the men and women who first imported, and still continue to patronize them.

And, unfortunately, it is not our national sports alone that are held in dishonor and are dying out, but even our most suggestive national celebrations are being gradually effaced and extinguished, one after another as well, who hears now of snap-apple night, pan-cake night, or bon-fire night? They are all things of the past, too vulgar to be spoken of except in ridicule by the degenerate dandies of the day. No doubt, there is something rather pleasing to the eye in the get-up of the modern man who, arrayed in light attire, with parti-coloured cap on and a racquet in hand, making his way, with or without a companion, to the tennis ground. But, for my part, I should vastly prefer to behold, or think of, the youthful athletes whom I used to see in my early days at fair and pattern, bereft of shoes and coat, and thus prepared to play at handball, to fly over any number of horses, to throw the 'sledge', or 'winding-stone', and to test each other's mental activity by the trying ordeal of 'three leaps', or a 'hop, step and jump'.

Indeed if we continue traveling for the next score years in the same direction that we have been going in for some time past, condemning the sports that were practiced by our forefathers, effacing our national features as though we were ashamed of them, and putting on, with England's stuffs and broadcoats, her masher habits and such other effeminate follies as she may recommend, we had better at once, and publicly, abjure our nationality, clap hands for joy at the sight of the Union Jack, and place 'England's bloody red' exultantly above the green.

Depreciating as I do any sure dire and disgraceful consummation, and seeing in your society of athletes something altogether opposed to it, I shall be happy to do all for it that I can, and authorize you now formally to place my name on the roll of your patrons.

In conclusion, I earnestly hope that our national journals will not disdain in future to give suitable notices of these Irish sports and pastimes which your society means to patronize and promote, and that the masters and pupils of our Irish Colleges will not henceforth exclude from their athletic programmes such manly exercises as I have just referred to and commemorated.

I remain, my dear Sir, your very faithful servant.

Mighty_Mouse

I really enjoyed that letter.


Have to say it has to be the most ironic of posts from you Alany due to your beration of the GAA for its stance on "evil soccer"

Do people agree/disagree with the sentiments?

Think there outdated/irrelevant?

Any comments. .. .. . I think that their as apt now as they were then. The need to protect the GAA against professional organisations such as Socccer and Rugby is more important now than ever.

My view on this whole debate is that this generation of GAA people need to fight harder than ever to protect the game.

Yavvy

Mouse, its hardly Ironic, above all else I am a GAA supporter, I have always preferred to watch football or hurling that any other game an I would rather see GAA promoted over any other sport.

However, Soccer, rugby, boxing, athletics, snooker and other sports have now become ingrained and assimilated into our culture. They are sports we can take great pride in.

so while the puritans ( such as yourself) continue to oppose "foreign sports" , I and many others have come to accept they have become part of the Irish way of life.


At the time the sentiments of Dr Croke were vaild and justified and still are for the most part. And I agree with most of them... so no mouse not Ironic me thinks.

Mighty_Mouse

"""""""""so while the puritans ( such as yourself) continue to oppose "foreign sports""""


Wrong - i have played and constantly watch numerous other sports codes.

The point? -->
My focus is not to oppose "foreign sports" but to support the GAA first and foremost.

IMO you fail to do this. Watch GAA all day if you want but; god forbid if you have to argue for it.

How you can agree with Doc Croke and make the statements you do, I dont know.

Imposter

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
Do people agree/disagree with the sentiments?

Think there outdated/irrelevant?

Any comments. .. .. . I think that their as apt now as they were then. The need to protect the GAA against professional organisations such as Socccer and Rugby is more important now than ever.

My view on this whole debate is that this generation of GAA people need to fight harder than ever to protect the game.

I'd say it's a little outdated in that it reflects different time in Ireland's history compared to now.

I don't think there's a need to 'protect' the GAA from other sports but more a need for the GAA to compete with and promote it's sports more than the others. I wouldn't worry so much about the professional aspect of Soccer and Rugby as much as the coverage it gets in the media. What I mean here is that GAA needs more marketing and coverage on television. For me TnaG are doing a great job with this. Also the current structures (championship and irrelevant league etc) don't promote the games as well as they could/should.

As for professional sports in Ireland I think the GAA has probably the most professionally run sports in Ireland. Irish soccer is nowhere near what it should be and the handful of Irish that make it to England to play professionally shouldn't threaten the GAA. Rugby is becoming a force but unless it's structures are changed it will basically revolve around it's current structure which imo doesn't threaten the GAA as it's coverage is nowhere near as widespread as the GAA's.

So to conclude I think the GAA need to 'work hard to promote' the games but I don't see a need to 'fight to protect them'.

Mighty_Mouse

" think the GAA need to 'work hard to promote' the games but I don't see a need to 'fight to protect them'."

!!!!!!!!!!!!What exactly are you saying differently here. Word play!
How can you expect me to take a comment like that on board!

Imposter

When I see 'fight to protect them' I take it to mean that we should undermine other sports without doing enough to promote our own. Where as when I say the GAA need to 'work hard to promote' their sports I mean they need to show the positive side of the GAA's games not the negative side of other sports in order to advance the games.

* If I read 'fight to protect them' wrong I do apologise.

Yavvy

to be honest Mouse I feel I am doing exactly what your saying we should do...

""
My focus is not to oppose "foreign sports" but to support the GAA first and foremost. ""

Allowing Soccer to be played in Croke park doesnt mean that GAA is not being promoted first and foremost and if you ever see the day other sports are allowed in Croke park you will see that GAA will never take a back seat. In fact it could be a great public relations coup for the GAA...imagine watching an Ireland soccer international and a bill board in the backgrounf says "Play GAA" ...wouldnt that be fantastic ?

Mighty_Mouse

Imposter
""""Where as when I say the GAA need to 'work hard to promote' their sports I mean they need to show the positive side of the GAA's games not the negative side of other sports in order to advance the games.

* If I read 'fight to protect them' wrong I do apologise"""""""

I think you might end up even confusing yourself here!!!!!

Of coarse the GAA are going to promote the GAA, develop underage structures etc ........... What else are they ment to do .........Go around knocking down soccer goalposts?

So yes were in agreement.


Alany
"Allowing Soccer to be played in Croke park doesnt mean that GAA is not being promoted first and foremost"

I just disagree with you here. I dont think the best way to promote the GAA is to allow international soccer matches in Landsdowne and stick a "play GAA" logo on the billboard!! No I dont think that would be the most effective way at all!

I do however think if significant club semi's, ladies, underage etc were to be given a run in Croker it would be more effective in promoting the games. Any match that got even near the necessary 30,000 ot b/e should be played. Take a loss on a few matches such as these would be a better way forward .

At the end of the day lads - ye just dont want to see Irish soccer matches played in England. (have to travel over etc).
I dont either - but its nothing to do with the GAA

I dont agree that your actively supporting the GAA at all Alany. Your negative attitude towards the GAA is evident.

Why is it such a bad thing to say "let soccer go **** emselves".

And again - I still fear the influence of money on the GAA

Imposter

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
I think you might end up even confusing yourself here!!!!!

Nope, i'm perfectly clear on what I was trying to say even if I may not have put it as well as I could or maybe you just didn't understand my point.

Of coarse the GAA are going to promote the GAA, develop underage structures etc ........... What else are they ment to do .........Go around knocking down soccer goalposts?

Related to the knocking down of goalposts it has been my experience that the GAA have been very unaccomodating of other sports at times in their fixture planning. What this has done has forced youngsters to decide either to go to a soccer or a GAA match for example. Obviously not all will go to the GAA match. That imo is counterproductive as they are losing potential players not to mention alienating some people completely from the GAA. Soccer are not entirely innocent in this regard either.

So yes were in agreement.

Ok so.

I do however think if significant club semi's, ladies, underage etc were to be given a run in Croker it would be more effective in promoting the games. Any match that got even near the necessary 30,000 ot b/e should be played. Take a loss on a few matches such as these would be a better way forward .

That's an interesting viewpoint but i'm not sure it's such a good idea until the cost of building Croker is more under control. After that it would probably be a good idea.

I dont agree that your actively supporting the GAA at all Alany. Your negative attitude towards the GAA is evident.

I think you're being harsh on Alany here but i'll let him fight his own corner

And again - I still fear the influence of money on the GAA

Why? Surely money is needed to grow, develop and even to maintain the current status of our games!