School/exam apathy and disinterest

LegacyUser

Hello
Im 17,in fifth year of secondary,which is Leaving Cert year(I know alot of ye do til 6th year but we dont do transition or any of that craic so we just do the 5 straight years).
As many of you will know this week school students round the country have been hurriedly filling in their CAO forums and sending them off to beat the deadline this weekend. Paid mine in the bank the other day,filled it in online tonight. But to be honest Im not sure if i have any real intention of going to third level. To be honest Im sick of education. When I sit through yet another class of algebra related maths or Irish,subjects which will have not one bit of relevance to my life beyond the LC this summer,I cant help but think I am wasting my life.
I am tired of hypocrites telling me I should do this and that. Im from a higher working/lower middle class type background,depending on what way you look at it. Because I am fairly intelligent in an everyday sense(as in you could sit me infront of a tv quiz show and Id anwser most of the questions)alot has been expected of me from I was young. I started to read from an early age,as a baby of maybe 2 like. I picked up facts easily when I was young. Like alot of kids at around 8 or so I had an interest in the world around me. I read kids encyclopedias that kind of thing. My mother always expected me to go to college and become something great like a lawyer or whatever. Become the first real wealthy,successful member of the family. Some day I was meant to be the first of the clan going to the likes of Trinity College,because I was a clever clogs.
It all changed when I went to secondary school. Back in national school,it was a tightly run ship compared to secondary. It was your normal local nat school-no swearing,not doing homework considered a huge offence,that kind of thing. It was the type of place where even the baddest kid usually was scared into doing at least some of his work.
As said it all changed when I went to secondary school. It was a different world. The teachers swore as much as us in some cases. They were lazy compared to my national school teachers. In short it was brilliant. Homework avoiding wasnt as serious an offence-the most you could hope for was a note in your journal,which you could probably avoid getting signed for months. By christmas of my first year in secondary I realised that homework doesnt necessarily have to be done at home. So I started taking it easy,doing most of my homework at home but finishing off a few bits in school before class,as you do. By second year I had started doing less homework. By third year I was doing no homework at home,and no study whatsohoever. In spite of starrting to study days before the JC I got 6 Bs an A a C D and failed only art(i was hopeless at art). In the last two years I have done homework at home maybe 20 times. 99% of classes I can get away with it. Perhaps its luck,perhaps its an aquired art of avoiding dtection but I manage generally. Perhaps this has given me a complex that in the end plan B will always win out,which is why I continue my lazy ways.
And that is my point. How the hell am I going to go to college and complete assignments when I cant be arsed doing school homework? I am sick to death of teachers who say my attitude will get me nowhere in life. Why? Because in the last 5 years i have seen that the teaching profession is one of the laziest jobs to be in,sucking blood off the government in excessive pay for little work. As bad as i am theyre an even lazier shower. Out of nine scheduled classes today guess how many I had? THREE. All the rest out on sick leave,courses,cant be bothered etc etc. They say you learn by example. Im not entirely blaming teachers for my situation,but with attendance records like that they can talk. But it seems nowadays that unless you are destined to become a dustman you must do some sort of 3rd level course. Even doing a mickey mouse course in order to keep the parents off your back,like so many do,is preferable to not going it would seem. But what is the point in that,paying money to go to a course so I can be in the majority who can say Ive a qualification but it does feck all for me in later life. Think of all the people you know who have done courses which in the end had no relevance to their career. Think of all the people who have dropped out. The success rate of 3rd level isnt black and white.
So in a nutshell my point is that I feel that school is a pointless waste of my time. The majority of maths on the ordinary level course will NEVER be used by ANY student who does not do physics. They are completely irrelevant to our lives. Im in grinds now but a few months back I just concluded the above-that they were useless to my life and I was not going to listen to them,primarily because I hadnt a clue what they were about. The grinds are helping me a bit,but Im still apathetic about them. I used to love English class-2 years of boring books and films about upper class English society have dampened my liking of it. I filled in to do a few business certificate courses on the CAO but I only did that because I have a good business franchise idea which I know will be a success. But franchise companies most probably wont want to hear from a 17 year old straight out of school with no money and no qualifications seeking to take out a franchise licence.
People say I have no ambition. I have. But I dont regard ambition as being based on an exam this summer where you put facts in your short term memory in order to regurgitate them within a few days and then forget them. Im going to the university of life IMO,where exams and pointless subjects have no place. I have a business idea I want to get off the ground. If thats not amition I dont know what is.
So,is there a solution to my apathy? Or should I live as we were meant to live,free of the constraints of tests and eams?
Convert me,and maybe save me from a life of insurance fraud,dole cheating and peddling of illegal/dodgy wares:D
Twas a long post so thanks for your time

Imposter

Perhaps the best thing for you is a year out. Try and get your franchise idea off the ground or just get a regular job for the year. Defer any college course you get offered but put your mind down to your leaving cert now. Use the fact that you'll be starting your idea as the motivation for getting a good leaving and having something that you can use if you need to do business courses or whatever at a later stage. After a year has passed you can reevaluate your position and decide whether you want to start college or continue doing what you're doing.

Good luck.

dudara

COllege is even more relaxed than secondary school. The only pressure you will feel is the pressure you put on yourself to acheive. If you go to college, you'll be doing a course that you're actually interested in doing, no more irrelevant history.

But to get to college, you have to work and get your Leaving. Once you do that, you'll have opened the doors to a lot of choice that you wouldn't have otherwise. Sometimes you have to swallow your bile to get what you want.

DapperGent

Jesus that has to be one of the whiniest bits of self-obsessed fucking drivel I've ever had the misfortune to read.

All you're doing is giving yourself excuses to be crap at stuff "Maths is irrelvent", "My teachers are rubbish". It must be wonderful to have yourself convinced that your own failings are someone else's fault. Your laziness is not symtomatic of some kind of wider ill you face, it's just that your lazy. Get over yourself.

College is fun and you clearly are too much of a plank to run a business, you might as well grow up there as anywhere else and you might just learn something. Of course you won't get into good course because you'll do a crap leaving which of course won't be your fault.

Is there a solution to your apathy? You could stop being a complete shithead for starters.

Lafortezza

Ahhh P.I., the place you come to get some friendly advice and to share your problems with understanding Boardsters

Lemming

I have to say that I agree with DapperGent in that the opening post in this thread is utterly self-indulgent. You're trying to justify being lazy to yourself. Pure and simple.

dudara makes a good point about second level being a grind which is completely at odds with third level education. But I will say this - you'd be surprised at what you pick up in second level coming into play later in life. Very surprised in fact. Just like I was in college when a particular assignment I was given got a boost due to my knowledge (which is debatable) of organic chemistry.

Or that alegebra is very good for problem solving, as I witnessed in work when a workmate took a problem (not work related), determnied a pattern out of it using an equation and solved it.

Here's something to think about. Where do you intend to get the finance for your franchise idea? What are you going to use to convince the lender that you are indeed a good risk? "it's a good idea and it'll work. I know it will" doesn't cut it with financial backers I'm sorry to say ... nor does being lazy

Beruthiel

Originally posted by Lemming
Here's something to think about. Where do you intend to get the finance for your franchise idea? What are you going to use to convince the lender that you are indeed a good risk? "it's a good idea and it'll work. I know it will" doesn't cut it with financial backers I'm sorry to say ... nor does being lazy

I didn’t comment up until now because I was thinking along the same lines as Lemming and Dapper – there is no way in hell you will be financed by a bank without collateral, get an education and then decide what you want to do in life – whinging about your teachers is no excuse whatsoever in you not making an effort, in the end, the only one to suffer from your laziness is you.

The Corinthian

Join the army. Preferably one that has a recent history of offensive rather than defensive or UN based combat - UK, or US for example. You lack the discipline to direct yourself, and in that absence the only place where you’re going to find it is in the military or boarding school; and you’re too old for the latter at this stage.

Do that for a few years and you will probably have both a better idea of what you want to do as well as the discipline to do it.

And stop whining like a little girl - if you were my son, I’d probably slap you across the room.

Imposter

I agree mostly with what others have said but i'd just like to add that it is possible to get a franchise that doesn't cost any or at least much money. Examples would include a company who wants to introduce their products to new markets. They might be looking for a distributor/salesman for a particular area. If something like this is the case then financing may not be a problem.

I think some people are dissing this poster unfairly. He may be a lazy, whining, apathetic ****head but he could also be someone who just cannot reach their potential in the education system and could fair much better if left to fend for themselves in the big bad world.

LegacyUser

lay off this chap a bit.

i felt the exact same way, only my three brothers had gone ahead and done the LC rigmarole, so i just had to aswell no ifs or buts, so i zipped my pie hole and done the thing and am in college now.
just suck it up and do it, but no reason for the rudeness there now boys and girls

Gordon

Indeed, I don't like the adjective "sh*thead" being thrown around PI thanks very much.

I agree with the army and the year out ideas. Why not combine them?

tribble

Study a bit - Goto college (but make sure it something you are going to ENJOY.

I was in basically the same boat as you.
College is nearly totally different. You still have to work (sometimes) but there's nobody breathing down you back (unless you in Mater Dei or some such).

I repeat DO SOMETHING YOU ENJOY - the work will be an order of magnitude easier if you do.

tribble

PS - the year out may not be such a good idea UNLESS you have a firm plan - otherwise you'll end up sitting on your ass. I'm on a year out and haven't left my room for 3 days - but I work 6 days a week normally so this is not so bad.

LegacyUser

Thanks for all the replies that didnt have the word sh1thead in them. As for the rest of you thinking its whiney self absorbed crap fcuk off. Would you tell somebody with depression,somebody who was suicidal,to grow the fcuk up if their life had went pear shaped? If you would you are obviously an irrelevant wanker with nothing useful to contribute. Its my life,and what I am saying is that I am tired of other people and society in general telling me what I have to do in order to be in with the winners in this world. Telling me that I have to conform to become successful. Its bollix. I believe my part about the teachers IS relevant. They lecture us on laziness but the majority of them(not all mind-some are very decent) are themselves bone idle freeloaders. Its the hypocracy that gets me more than anything. I have had two teachers now who have been missing since before christmas. Only one of those classes is currently being staffed by a sub. Imposter hit the nail on the head-I do very little in school which I find relevant to me. I have a great interest in History and Geography and always have done. Business Studies is a subject which can give you a good head start in the world. Though I dont like biology I recognise it is serving a function for those who plan a career related to it. But Irish and Maths are simply a waste of my time,theres no other way of looking at it.
As for my business idea,the reason I know it would work is because the product(its a pizza chain franchising plan BTW) is already sold in my town,and sells well. But despite the larger size of a nearby town only one place there sells pizza,and its a cheapo joint,the type of place which uses spam rather than ham on their toppings. The nearby town has twice the population of mine. Everytime I go into my local takeaway(which does pretty good pizza)there are usually at least 2 pizza carry outs per 10 minutes I noticed. Therefore in theory the town with twice the population and nobody else making decent pizza would have 4 customers per 10 minutes. With a delivery service it could be five. So thats my plan,which is why I applied for a few business certificate courses in Blanchardstown(first choice because it is within easy bus trip distance)Athlone and Sligo(dont really want to end up going to either of them tbh)
I suppose I posted because I know so many people who enrolled in third level and got nothing out of it. My dads brother has 4 sons. One is currently in third level,one is finished some carpentry course and living in England doing carpentry and the other two took IT courses. One IT guy is unemployed and the other is working in a local hspital for NO MONEY,waiting in hope that the hospital can afford in its budget to pay him eventually. He is there to keep the position open for himself. How fecking useless is that in fairness?
Then I have a female cousin who went to college,got a job in a creche part time to pay for her digs and now is earning a bomb by looking after the kids of a couple who have even bought her a car. Shes only 21. While it was because she was in college that she took up the creche job and therefore met these people you could say that because what she has a diploma in has little to do with her job and that she would have done well for herself without college.
And I have numerous cousins who enrolled in further education courses just to keep themselves busy. When you read in the paper that 60% of school leavers go to third level and your elders make a big thing of it they can do with being reminded that a majority figure doesnt necessarily mean that all those people are set for high flying careers only because they have been to third level.

rs

I took a year out, and it was a great idea. There are few things more motivating for going to third level than having a crap job for a year.

In general, from the people that I know, those that went to third level have been much more successful (career + cash + generally happiness) than those that did not. Going to third level does not gaurantee you a future, but it sure can help.

Once again, third level is very different to secondary, and it's much easier if you are studying something that you actually like.

But please, if you have the brains, go to college. You'll never forgive yourself if you don't. If you do work for a year, make sure you get a sh*te job, and just think of yourself doing that for the rest of your life.

best of luck

Calibos

Daz,

I was you 13 years ago(am 30 now) and I'm still you now, I'm such an effing waster :rolleyes: 100% of your post/description was me. ie above average intelligence, high parental expectations, should have been first in the extended family to get to college etc etc.

I couldn't face college and instead of repeating the LC I decided to turn my partime barman job into a fulltime one for a year or so till I decided what I wanted to do with my life. The year or 2 turned into 7 till I decided enough was enough. I left in '99 and worked in the family business while I did a 2 year Level3 NCVA Software and Networking course. Got 7 distinctions and 2 Merits ie Joint top of the class. What should I have done after the 2 years. Maybe done another Computing course and gotten a job??? No I convinced myself what was the point after 9/11 and the dotcom crash. What am I doing 3 years later. Still working in the soul destroying family business :rolleyes: Like I said I'm wasting my talent(such as it is).

Another waster of a mate finally got his act together, did a 1 year Java programming course with FAS in '99 and is now on about €35000 a year. What am I on?....a lot less. Am I as capable as him?...You betcha...Whats my problem? I'm still a waster! :rolleyes:
What are the old school mates of the same intelligence who went straight to college doing? On about €10-20000 more than the other mate and they were on enough money even before the celtic tiger and so all have houses bought before the prices went mad and have nearly paid off the bloody mortgages already!!! I've wasted 13 years of my life. Don't make excuses and don't waste time. Take a max of a year out to travel or something if you really feel you need it but then get into college. Don't end up bitter and twisted like me looking on with jealousy at how well your old mates are doing and how much they're earning. Oh and in case anyone chimes in with 'money doesn't necessarily mean happiness etc. Feck off! It bloody helps though! (I'm not actually bitter and twisted with jealousy and am actually quite happy, but you know what I mean At this stage in my life I could be happy...AND.... have a good few quid more in the bank, a house and little or no mortgage left! )

You're probably saying, FFS I'm 17 WTF would I be doing thinking about mortgages already etc etc. Thats what I thought even when I was in my early to mid 20's while working in the bar. People told me I should buy a house (and I could have afforded one back then). I said FFS I'm only 24, WTF would I be spending my money on a mortgage when i could have so much fun on the money. Result?? Stuck at home with mammy and daddy at 30 FFS. I swear to god those 13 years flew by. So Daz by all means enjoy your youth and don't take too much too seriously but the one thing you should take seriously is college, career and your future. As Darth Vader said to Luke," Its.....cough......too late for me......Son" (See 30yo...child of the seventies...can't help quoting StarWars :rolleyes: )

.........Anyway. End of Lecture!

jerenaugrim

Daz,
do whatever you want. Sounds to me like you're intelligent and free-thinking. If you find school such a waste of time, you'll probably find college a waste of time too. I cruised thru secondary, refused to go the CAO route, went to college eventually. Met some good people there, but mostly full of careerists (students AND staff). Ignore those who have called you names here. They're threatened by your intelligent independence. I eventually got educated to Postgrad Diploma level, but only for the sake of it. Keep the spirit you have now, and u'll make your way. Money's not that important, not as important as staying as free as possible. You only get one life. Use it.

Gordon

Daz Dillinger - "If you would you are obviously an irrelevant wanker with nothing useful to contribute"

Yeah, great answer there. :rolleyes:
You expect people to reply civilly and can't do that yourself.

Cake Fiend

You are me five years ago.

If I had the chance to go back and talk to my younger self pre-leaving, I would try to hammer home the point that you only get ONCE CHANCE at this. And it CAN affect the rest of your life. Think hard about that.

You're probably sick of people telling you how important your LC is, how it will affect your college and work prospects, etc. I used to ignore everything people told me as well. It's very, very easy as a 17-year-old to shrug off advice of older/wiser/more experienced people - I know this because I used to do it all the time. What did I learn in the years to come? Funnily enough, these people were right. Mad how someone who has gone further in life than you can know more about life, isn't it?

The standard Irish education/testing system is full of holes. We all know it, even the teachers. But do yourself a favour and just play the game, only for six more months. If you don't, you'll never realistically be able to make up for it. Remember, it's only six more months.

Then take a year out, work a bit, travel a bit, get a feel for the world before you decide what you want to do. Maybe take some business/enterprise courses. But make sure you have your leaving cert sorted first.

Elessar

Hey Daz,

I'm in the exact same boat as you. Did my leaving last year, but I didn't give a toss about it or the school or my teachers. It seemed so irrelevant to me. I even went to my guidance councellor about it and told her outright that if I could leave school that second I would have. She advised me against it, so I said I might as well stick it out and finish what I started.

So I did the leaving. I didn't do aswell as I should have done, but it wasn't too bad. I am on a year out now (trust me forget about doing it, bloody waste of time imo) working hard. To be honest college didnt really interest me either, and Im still thinking about what I want to do.

Like you I was an A student right up until the Junior cert. Then I slipped into apathy. I'm still there. I have a lot of expectation on me and I'm being pressured to go to college. I also have a few business plans in mind, cos tbh money is the only thing that motivates me now. But I do now want to go to college, doing something that I might enjoy (either film production/journalism or computers) cos I know it will give me some kind of direction.

I understand where you're coming from about the point of college, but it's true that if you know what you want to do, you can eventually do it for the rest of your life. For the rest of us, college can definately help along the way and even help change our minds. For all I know I could be a writer or a major hollywood director ten years from now (God I wish I had a definate plan).

I know several people who have gone to college and studied subjects which have no relation to what they currently do. That doesn't mean it'll be that way for me or you, but university is not just about study. It's about growing up and figuring out who you are and all that stuff (well, I've been told this by MANY ppl).

Life is unpredictable, and afaik college can at least make a person wiser for the better. At least, I hope so.

Jammer

I'm the same as you Daz, although maybe not as extreme. Im doin my leavin this year. I know why we learn the maths that we do, i can see the relevance, because i want to do computers, and have been studying privately for the last year and a half, and i can see the linkage between the two already. Its mad, i can already do what i'd be doing in college, although i may not get the points to do it and get a cert for it.

My teachers are a joke. Well, some. My french teacher is a legend, she gives us loads of notes and comes in an hour before school to help a seletcion of us (those who can be arsed coming in early) with oral work. My english and irish teachers on the other hand, are complete lazy bums. They sit there, read directly from the text book and then says "Those questions for tonight" with no discussion on understanding or anything. My maths teacher is good, his ways of explaining things are very clear...he's my physics teacher too, he isnt fond of me, as i dont have homework the odd time, but i am good at the subjects.

I really lack motivation. I can sometimes bring myself to doing homework. Never study though, i just dont see the point. If i do now, i wont remember it, i know i wont. There is a mid-term before the mocks, ill cram then. Thats my way of thinking anyway. I have filled in CAO...mostly computers degrees/diplomas and i cant wait to get out of secondary school and into college. I dont think school is a waste of time, it is however more hassle then it should be. Just get your head down for the next FOUR MONTHS! and then you never have to worry about it again.

The Corinthian

Originally posted by Daz Dillinger
As for the rest of you thinking its whiney self absorbed crap fcuk off. Would you tell somebody with depression,somebody who was suicidal,to grow the fcuk up if their life had went pear shaped?

It can often be the best thing to say to someone who says they’re suicidal. More often than not, they’re not suicidal and simply looking for attention and the best cure for what bothers them is in reality a metaphorical kick in the ass.

Ultimately, are you here principally for advice or to hear things that will make you feel better about yourself?

Its my life,and what I am saying is that I am tired of other people and society in general telling me what I have to do in order to be in with the winners in this world. Telling me that I have to conform to become successful. Its bollix.

While you’re at it, why don’t you share with us some of your poetry that describes how your parents don’t understand you? :rolleyes:

Had you considered that regardless of what you do, sitting around justifying how it’s all someone else’s fault and feeling sorry for yourself is not going to achieve much? If you don’t accept that, then no matter what you decide to do (assuming you ever get as far as deciding) with be a failure.

I suppose I posted because I know so many people who enrolled in third level and got nothing out of it.

Most people will end going to college, buying a house, marrying, having kids and settling down because they are trapped in a rather provincial mindset where this is what is expected of them and any attempt to think outside of this mindset would result in their brains melting. The simple truth is that most people should not go to university straight after school - in fact most people should not go to university in the first place.

As for your business idea, I wouldn’t touch it. Even were you to get funding for it, you lack the experience or the initiative to make it succeed at present. It’s fairly obvious that in your need to find a solution to your problems, one where you get to set up and run a successful business seems to be almost a ‘magic bullet’ to all your problems. It’s not. As someone who’s run numerous businesses (most into the ground) and was already selling calculators to all the local schools before you were born, running a business is not easy.

As I said, you need to take time out and learn a little bit of discipline. Do a stint in the military, and you’ll be in a far better position to decide what you want to do for the rest of your life when you get out again.

Gearoid

I definitely have to agree with the military solution, will give u discipline, motivation and purpose, I suggest the Brits, US or French Foreign Legion- quite tough but with the skills u've learnt u can always come back to Ireland with a renegade army and get ur revenge:D or tell the bank manager if he doesn't get the loan for ur business u'll show him what u learnt in French Guiyana:ninja: