with summer aproachin'

tHE vAGGABOND

with summer aproachin' and jedi home, and everyone getting free time would it be worth thinking about q3 leagues again

SickBoy

Great idea!

Cake Fiend

Speaking of the next league, there's some LPB limit out-sortage to be done. If there is no limit on LPBs in the next league then loads of clans are fu<ked (e.g. Ludo, Bio, IR and a fair few others). The only solution for us is to either all get ISDN lines or to have a seperate HPW league. I know this has been dragged out, but I don't remember an official vote or whatever being given.

I've been talking to [Bio]m1ke and we both think that the way things are looking, it would probably not be worth our while entering the next league. I'd say a few clans feel the same.

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Don't drink and drive - you might spill your pint
clanludo

m1ke

yeh myself and illkillya (of IR) and Sico (of LUDO) have agreed that we'd have no competitive edge in an all lpb league and us being in one would be pretty useless... i'd like to know where the rules would stand. Are there any other clans in a similar situation.

Chaos

How about run the league no limits on lpbs an d beside you team name on the tables they put HPB or LPB and then u can see who came top. Theres not enough for 2 divisions i say.

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[url="http://chaos.gibworld.com
Ps"]http://chaos.gibworld.com[/url]
ps 0wns U

Zero

Originally posted by Sico:
If there is no limit on LPBs in the next league then loads of clans are fu<ked (e.g. Ludo, Bio, IR and a fair few others).

Yeah well it works both ways, the likes of us (se7en) are phuckered with the hpb line on. There definitely arent enuff teams for two divisions. The only solution is for inferior modemers to bend over and take it, I'm afraid.

Take it

The only solution is for inferior modemers to bend over and take it, I'm afraid

That’s an ickle bit harsh of course there has to be compromise made why should the modemers take it when the clans with more lpb not?

I do think that there should be less of a restriction then 2 hpb I don’t know if DzR are entering the league next season. But if they are why should the likes of Spoonamn Shank Junkie Gold have to only pick 2 of the players that means that the people that aren’t playing (though there good) are missing out on the experience of matches.

But no matter what decision is made on this subject there will be a few clans annoyed when the decision is made it should be the last word and NOT to be changed either it be 1 hpb, none or leaving it as 2.

P.S. DzR was only taken for an example

Paladin

I am a modemer. I would like it if there were no lpb's EVER!
Alas that is not so. In fairness tho these guys pay good money for their isdn lines and I rekon they shouldnt have to pay for it by having a lpb limit. Its time to go open source as it were. O well. Some day I will be lpb. Then you shall all feel my wrath! (except those who played me on a lan and have already felt it and rubbed it and toyed with it before being killed with it)
Thats my opinion anyway.
No lpb limit (but then Im a nobody to u l33t Q3 players anyway)

m1ke

"The only solution is for inferior modemers to bend over and take it, I'm afraid."

Well im afraid us inferior modemers aren't going to bend over and take it, you're being very diplomatic aren't you since you have the advantage of ISDN (like myself luckily but not most of BiO,IR and LUDO)... a compromise has to be found or it'll be a very small iq3cl !

A vote should be taken on the subject... whether we should leave the league the way it is or not.... if the vote turns out that there's to be change in ping restrictions then it should be put in place to suit everyone as much as possible.


[This message has been edited by m1ke (edited 21-05-2000).]

podgeen

Lads what about a compromise?
A one hpb limit?

tHE vAGGABOND

we could work out some kind of handicap system for teams with more than 1 modemer..

We could also have a limit of at least 1 modemer per game, on each side. And If clans dont have modemers, they have to get them!

MindPhuck

I once played in a league where there was a minumin ping restriction for the whole team of 200.

Eg.
Team A) 4 lpbs (40 pings) - Disqualified
Team 4 lpbs (50 pings) - Qualified
Team C) 3 lpbs (30 pings), 1 hpb (100 Ping) - Qualified.
Team D) 2 lpbs (20 pings), 2 hpbs (120 Ping) - Qualified

That worked all round. Of course the Min Team ping could be changed to suit us wee Irish, but it would reslove this lpb/hpb restrictions. Watcha reckon?

tHE vAGGABOND

I see where you are coming from, but is it not easier just to make every clan get at least 1 modem pe0n (defined at someone with a ping of over 100 to Game Server), If some clans cant get 3 LPB's then tough, we cant penalise players with ISDN, at the same time we have to try and level the playing feild a bit.

More and more people are getting ISDN and better, so hopefully we wont have this problem for long!

Lucutus

I've been toying with getting ISDN for a while now, and if another league comes up, and a group of ISDN'ers running it decided to have a free no limits LPB league, so be it. I'll probably go out and signup, because the reasons I'm in a clan at all, and hanging around here is that I want to play in these leagues, organised by and competed in by the best Q3 players in Ireland, in other words, I play yous, I get better. (Besides, I'm fúckin' addicted now, yez prícks!)

If that involves a connection upgrade, fine. Other people mightn't be so motivated, some might. The point remains, a no LPB restrictions league would be fairly sh1te until around this time 6 months/next year when people have the conns to play.

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Lucutus of Borg

SickBoy

This ****ing topic never rests. Well this is the way I see it. [7] (the clan I'm in) have an abundance of LPB's and I don't see why we should have to send out a weakend lineup just because out apponents aren't up to scratch ping wise(harsh but true) Next you'll see ppl complaining that some clans are playing with 3 button mice or are using GeForce 2's and getting 200fps or something like that. There's lots of advantages to be gained in online fps but they are expensive and you might as well flame ppl with good systems as quick as you flame ppl with LPB status.

bubbles

Nice idea MP, but whats stopping one person in the team lagging themselves totally out(999 ping) while the others go into the eircom offices and play with a 10 ping.

Still meaning that they have met the ping quota.

Sacarifce a player to gain 3 very low pingers.

bub(always one step ahead of[7])bles

Shiminay

Bold bubbs!

MP could be on to something - a team ping limit seems like a good idea. 200 - 250 seems fair enough. The problem is consistency of connection. 4 players may have 50 pings each and that's cool, what happens when one spikes or when someone elses conection improves mid game?

Ping isn't an exact science if you know what I mean and I can see visions of ppl saying "All your pings dropped in the game and your team was under 200"
It's a toughie to solve if (and when) that kind of thing pops up.

That aside - maybe a 1 hpb limit???

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All the best,

Dav
@B^)
My page of stuff

[This message has been edited by Kharn (edited 22-05-2000).]

m1ke

Well, there's been some good arguments from everyone here, there's a way we can work this thing out so no one will have to "bend over and take it from behind", that's just ****ing crude, everyone should be accomodated as much as possible... we should try and accomodate both sides of the equation and not set out to shaft the opposition - for instance I don't want an all modem league so the lpbs can **** off. I counted the hpbs in BiO,IR and LUDO and there's a total of 23 hpbs ... most of who would have little or no chance of playing/competing properly due to connections all for the sake of se7en getting to play it's best 4.

So far some good points have been raised by various people, Jedi or whoever is organising the league should take note of these and see if he can work it into a situation that means it accurately reflects the hpb/lpb proportion of players in Ireland at the current time, come to a compromise and structure to league to suit everyone as much as possible.

1. one hpb per team - podgeen
2. team ping limit - mindphuck
3. handicaps - vaggabond
4. leave the league 2lpb/2hpb. I'm also curios... are se7en the only clan effected by this rule, making all their members bias because they all have connection upgrades ?

Also one of the most dangerous aspects of an all lpb league is 4 lads on the UL 15 ping thang to the IOL server - and I believe it's the reason why Se7en,ps and H especially want an all lpb league because they have this facilitiy that no one else in the country has.

Prehaps 1hpb per team minimum, a team ping limit of 200 or whatever with isdners using a handicap of 90 and collage connections using a handicap of 70.

Illkillya

that sounds good, but I've never seen an Irish modemer with a ping of 120. Maybe a higher minimum ping would be better, forcing teams to use either a hpb, or some high ISDN players, that would suit IR anyway, with our lowest ping team being around 360 on a good day.

sam

H prefer lan because we are all lan players, if we want to get a UL connect we have to go from dublin to limerick(by bus), and the one time i did go down there to play a game the connect went down and our opponents got a walkover,i didnt even get a game
we have modems at home, making us modemers, we just dont see the skill in modem play(especially modem clanwars), having played lan a few times before (between GAA matches) we would prefer if the whole thing was held on lan or something
that is all

Cake Fiend

Originally posted by Zero:
Yeah well it works both ways, the likes of us (se7en) are phuckered with the hpb line on. The only solution is for inferior modemers to bend over and take it, I'm afraid.

<rant>
The only thing inferior about modemers is their connection. The last leagues were more a test of server connections than skill which is ******. In fairness, I'm making an effort to get an ISDN line in and Havok's is on the way, but it's unlikely to arrive in time for the next league. At the rate that people are getting ISDN lines in, I'd say much less people will complain about LPB/HPB rules by the time the next league after this one comes around - is it so much to ask that LPBs put up with handicaps for one more league?

Also, why do 7 have to be all-LPB? At the end of the day it's all (or at least should be...) a bit of craic, so what's to stop you taking on a HPB or two? What's not a bit of craic is starting a league where you have no hope of winning a game because of 200-300 (and above) pings and one player with an average of 550.

Also, Sam, I think that there is skill in modem play, if you can get used to the lag. A good 300ms modemer can knock the sh1t out of a bad 50ms player (I've done it myself a fair few times).
</rant>

BTW, I agree with MP's idea as long as there's some sort of administrative power to stop people maxxing one player out and getting 3 ninjas in with 10 ms.

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Don't drink and drive - you might spill your pint
clanludo

Overlord

hup!
Cmon lads - lets get QIL 2 up and running fast.
Resting on laurels is bad news

Jay

You all seem to be forgetting the fact that all the best players in the country are limerick based. The college, does have a habit of kicking people out for summer, so the league will be small as it is.

With the irish team training and organizing in mid flight, I think we should wait until we see how we get on in this euro thing, before we have another league.

Eric's idea of a ping restriction is NIIIICCCE!
as for bubba's addition... even nicer.

The hpb/lpb problem has been around since the days of Na Fianna, and winquake. The sooner HPB'ers give up moaning, the better. We never hear Koopa complaining about his modem.... perhaps just his kack rail aim when he moves from modem to lan.

Just take it, you hpb'ers seem to have a case of bad workman blaming tools.

I don't see Lorcan complaining about his connect (200 to 300 ping)..... he can fcuking pluck a person from mid air with a rail gun.

It's all about what you are used to and practice not ping.

Shiminay

/me looks at the old men
Remember GI-Meridian - the guy played from the States with 400 - 600 pings and was an absolute savage. Jay has it right, but it is fair to say it's an easier game if you've got a good connection...

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All the best,

Dav
@B^)
My page of stuff

El_Presidente

Sico, if my memory servers PS won the league and we only had one lpb.

damo

That was when everyone was ****e kharn

Koopa

one of my friends said meridian used a ping faker cos he connected to a server my friend had rcon on (he doesnt play quake anymore), and he pinged meridians ip(from the server, a linux machine) and got about 200-250 ping.. not 600

also the fact that meridian was the same guy who tried to cheat on some dm4 bot demo contest thing by using host_framerate trick in winquake didnt help his reputation