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funky penguin

When I have battles with my lil brother we usually end up arguing over one model. His Avatar. He keeps the model within 6 inches of his guardians untill he enters close combat. He insists that under independant character rules, i cannot fire at this 3 storey monstrosity because its beside those tiny guardians. Is this true? If it is, its pretty fuked up. Im not totally familiar with the rules, but wouldnt the monstrous creature rule negate that independant character rule?

Sarky

I'm pretty sure you can always fire at a monstrous creature, unless the Avatar is part of a squad. He has to state that the Avatar is leading them (assuming that's possible, I haven't read the Eldar codex in some time).

Otherwise he's breaking the rules and deserves the business end of a red hot poker.
Monstrous rules count as vehicles for targetting purposes, so they can be singled out if there's a line of sight.

funky penguin

thanks very much. Time for me to get the lascannons out on its ass.

Sarky

Why bother? Just get a massive squad of troops at him. He should be able to kill a maximum of 6 a turn, so if you can continuously get more than this surrounding him, he'll eventually fall. A mob of about 25 Ork Slugga boys can take down an Avatar... It was worth sacrificing the mob for the look on yer man's face...

Pugsley

Or if its slugga boys, get eaten for breakfast by the monstrosity, and all die a horrable gruesome death..... then the look on his face slightly change's

Anything charging an avatar is suicide...... unless its a Bloodthirster, then its the avatars turn to go legging it.

Lemming

Ah, avatars. Reminds me of a game during 2nd ed. one Christmas when I was in GW in Glasgow. I was at a games-night and was fielding blood angels against an eldar force (with Harlequins and an Avatar). The game ended with my dreadnought, a space marine, and a two terminators surviving to his one eldar ....

A Terminator armed with an assault cannon cut apart an Avatar and the entire Harlequin command troupe accompanying it in one volley.

The look on my opponents face

manchine

Isn't the avatar a bit of a handbag though?
He's not great at anything. OK, nobody can accuse you of being cheesy by taking one, but at the same time I've rarely seen one do anything as they're relativly easy to take down.
In the past they've been immune to all heat weapons - nice but not a game winner, and were able to throw their spear/sword (can't think of the proper name) up to 12", again nice but not game breaking.
Still and all, 80 points (right?) isn't too bad for what you get, and they do attract a lot of fire.

Lemming

Originally posted by manchine
Isn't the avatar a bit of a handbag though?
He's not great at anything. OK, nobody can accuse you of being cheesy by taking one, but at the same time I've rarely seen one do anything as they're relativly easy to take down.
In the past they've been immune to all heat weapons - nice but not a game winner, and were able to throw their spear/sword (can't think of the proper name) up to 12", again nice but not game breaking.
Still and all, 80 points (right?) isn't too bad for what you get, and they do attract a lot of fire.

No, Avatars were (not sure about 3rd ed.) rather hard and nasty to face. Just that (as with everythign else) certain weapons are their weakness. I for one, would never have fielded an avatar in a force that I knew was going to field assault cannons. They were the bane of an Avatar's survival.

That (was) a maximum of 9 hits with D10 damage _each_

funky penguin

Ah yes Sarky, but isn't it all the more sweet when you take down his close combat specialist BEFORE he enters the fray? Thats 80 points down the drain. Although i have to agree there would be a sense of satisfaction from killing an Avatar in close combat.

Sarky

Avatars were horrific back in 2nd ed. They were almost as tough as a 2nd ed. Bloodthirster, and that was pretty friggin' tough, let me tell you!

They're still pretty nasty, but they would be the equivalent of, say, a Space Marine commander with a few extra wounds now. Good fighters, tough as nails, but nowhere near as nasty as they used to be.

Pugsley

But sarky you must remember how hidiously cheap they are, ESPECIALLY compared to a well armed space marine commander

Sarky

Well... There is that...

Nyeh, I still don't like them, and hate to see any army with one in there.

Kold

God I wish they were still immune to heat weapons... You're all forgetting the one simple fact.. Avatars are like... uber cool

But anyway, I was under the impression that it was only tyranid monstrous creatures that can be fired upon at anytime and that the model has to be at least 2 or 3 times the height of the models blocking it before you can specifically target it...

Ameirgin

Ahhhh Avatars......the reason the Emperor in His wisdom gave us the Leman Russ! Actually, I enjoy fragging the poncy blighter with a massive volley of lasgun and heavy bolter fire - now that really makes the other guy stare!!

Kold

Lol, Your seer is a n00b

Havelock

Nothing more embarressing for an Eldar player than having his Avatar cut down by a group of Guard. Auto-cannons = Sweet.

They used to be f**ken 'orrible. When in 2nd ed I played Space Wolves, would just avoid the ba***rds.

crapcake

actullay thats avatar thing is not breaking the rules the codex does not state that it is an monsorus creature. odd though.

funky penguin

Now ya tell us!

Brains!

DrummerBoy

crapcake wrote:

actullay thats avatar thing is not breaking the rules the codex does not state that it is an monsorus creature. odd though.

Incorrect! They've updated it on the website and I imagine it was printed in WD at some stage. the Avatar is a monstrous creature.

Link here

g5hn710m4xpdwy

funky penguin wrote:

When I have battles with my lil brother we usually end up arguing over one model. His Avatar. He keeps the model within 6 inches of his guardians untill he enters close combat. He insists that under independant character rules, i cannot fire at this 3 storey monstrosity because its beside those tiny guardians. Is this true? If it is, its pretty fuked up. Im not totally familiar with the rules, but wouldnt the monstrous creature rule negate that independant character rule?

monstrous creature rule over-rides the independant charecter rule