Are Alfa's really that bad?

Tommy Vercetti

Been thinkin of getting a nearly new 156 (2002 or 2003), either a 2.0 or 2.5 V6.
Are they really as bad as some people say, i.e. reliability wise?

unkel

Of course they're not. You just have to hedge yourself

My best m8 is big into cars and has loved the 156 since it came out. He bought a 2000 model 2 years ago and is about to buy another. The trick is that he bought his car from an Alfa dealer and agreed to a 2 year full warrantee. Turned out he only had a minor problem, nothing that would have cost him big bucks. He COULD have had major issues and the likelyhood of running into trouble is higher than most cars, but they would then have been covered by the warrantee

If you are considering buying one, I would strongly advise this:

1. Get as long a warrantee as you can, preferably as long as you intend to keep the car

2. Consider and test drive the 2.4JTD 16V (the 16V revision is out since 2002 or 2003, check this out!). This is the best and most advanced diesel engine in the world in any car up to about €10k more than the list price of the Alfa. Get it chipped and you will have a very serious performance car. Even without the chipping you'd have 50% more torgue than a Porsche Boxster

ZENER

If you want reliability buy a Toyota Boreolla. The 156 is a great car. I second what unkle says about the warranty. The 2L Petrol is the minimum option and be sure to get the sportivo spec without the badge on the back (insurance !) This includes electric bucket seats with lumber control and side skirts etc. Air Con is a must !

The gear box is beautiful and smooth and the engine is racey and likes to be revved keep gear changes till about 3500 1st to 2nd and 5000 from there up to get the best from it. They tend to feel a little lithargic under 3000rpm this can be fixed by getting them chipped and besides the variable valve lift control (similar to V-Tec) lets the revs up to about 7,200 rpm so you'll rarely drive it under 3K!

If you're buying privately second hand listen carefully to the engine. When cold they sound a tiny bit dieselly but that should go after a minute or two. If it sound like this when warmed up the variator seal is gone and you're looking at about 400 yoyo's to fix it ! The engine has a nice induction noise but dont confuse this with the diesel sound.

Servicing is pricey so be sure they do a full job before you take it. Belt has to be done a 50,000, plugs at 60K as well as brakes. As an example the 8 platinum plugs will set you back 240 yoyos plus fitting !!!

Enjoy !

Tinky

Sleipnir

I think Alfa's have a good range of cars with a very good range of engines.
But they are unreliable.
Sure, some people will post and say they bought one and have had ony minor (or no) problems with them but they don't have the reputation for nothing.
A friend of mine got a 156 in January 03 and has been in the garage for a total of 7 weeks in the year since. That's almost 2 months! He's sick to death of it at this stage.

You may get lucky with one and never have any problems but personally, I would avoid.

ZENER

Can you elaborate on the problem he's having with the car?

It's a reputation of all Italian cars that they tend to have reliability problems. I've had 2 156 T Sparks, a 1.8 and a 2.0 and decided the build quality and enjoyment were more desirable. As I said if you want ultimate reliability buy a Toyota - just be careful you don't fall asleep on long trips !

The undocumented features of the Alfa range are well documented on the net but it doesn't seem to stop people buying them. They are a drivers car and tend to bought by those with a desire for a good performance car.

The 1.8 model I bought was 3 years old and had 2 problems in the 2 years I drove it. The first was caused by clutch dust on the starter system which was fixed under warranty the second was the variator seal, this didn't make the car undriveable just a little noisey is all! My current 2.0 model is perfect - no problems in the 9 months I've had it.

You will always find someone with something bad to say about any make/model of car - yes - even a Toyota !

Tinky

fenris

Nice car to drive, 157 is a great company car - brilliant when someone else is paying for it !

Owning an Alfa is something you may want to think long and hard about. Residuals are terrible, worse than other fiats !

Decide if you are going to run it into the ground or will need to trade it in / sell it on. fiats are terrible to get rid of !

Electrics are dodgy and the most common problem I have seem on Alfa's. The company I work for has said "never again" regarding Alfas as company cars due to both reliability and really bad dealer service and support from our nearest fiat garage (goatstown).

If you are an enthusiast go for it,
if you are prepared to pamper and tweak the car to get the equivilent of what other cars deliver as standard in performance and reliability terms go for it, if you believe the shiney bits and excellent design outweight the disadvantages - then do it !

It is a simple choice style or substance !

Quatre Mains

- I know they're not mechanically too dissimilar, but anyone got anything to point out about the 166? The resale on these is really bad (like a lot of big cars I suppose) which means even a comparitive spalpeen like me might be able to get one in the next year or so

Neil

SheroN

I reckon they look nice but are a heap of ****. that is all.

projectmayhem

i think alfa's are ugly, but it seems i'm alone there. mechanically they're useless if you want a decent few years run out of them, but for 2 years if they fail i suggest you look elsewhere.

dod

My first car was an Alfa, and, with one exception every car I have ever bought was an Alfa (when I went through a 'classic' phase & bought a 1972 MBG Roadster).

I wrote every single one of them off. I had interminable problems with them (rust, electrics, reliability etc). Original parts were exorbitantly expensive. A full service put you in the poorhouse until payday. You had to buy the most expensive fucking tyres that were available. And I'd buy another one in the morning. Great cars, great character, great to drive. Can't recommend them enough, once you accept their many weaknesses as part of their brilliant character.

SheroN

i don't know how anyone can warm to car with which they've had so much trouble....

ButcherOfNog

Originally posted by SheroN
i don't know how anyone can warm to car with which they've had so much trouble....

because its magnificent to drive, and most of the time, it works, just not as much of the time as other cars

Is1ldur

I would guess that people who are rejecting Alfa's out of hand have never owned or even driven one. Alfa's have had a bad reputation since the '70's and '80's, however have come on hugely in recent years. There will always be people who have trouble with some cars no matter which make. Evan BMW, once thought of as unbreakable have suffered in the last few years, however, because of the reputation they have, people just think its a fluke. If it is a problem with an Alfa, however, it just backs up the preconceptions they have.
If you are buying any car second-hand, just make sure you have a guarantee no matter which make. I have had 'normal' cars for years and looked at Volvo's BMW's, etc, before I decided on my Alfa, and I must say, I've never looked back.
Servicing, parts, etc., can be very expensive, especially if going through a main dealer, but you do have to think of the fact that, in my case with a 156, I am
driving a car which, to buy new, would cost in the region of EUR35,000.
I just drove my mothers car for the first time since I got my Alfa the other day. She has a 2l Volvo 850 and the difference between that engine and my own 2.0l TSpark is phenomenal. I don't think there is another normally aspirated engine which comes close, in terms of power (although I am sure someone will point one out).
Can't wait to buy my next one, hopefully a 2.5l, or, depending on a lot of things, the GTA.

ZENER

depending on a lot of things, the GTA.

Like:

Winning the National Lottery
Inheriting Lots of DOSH !
Selling a testicle !

etc.

Spot on about preconceptions though - I thought the same before I bought my first one. The drivability won out in the end and aside from the clutch dust problem - which was repaired under warranty - It worked fine. I'm now on my second one and if I can get someone to buy a slightly used testicle I too will go for a 2.5 V6 or GTA !

My advice to anyone with doubts is to try one. Of course if you've only ever driven a Toyota better have a ECG first !:D

Tinky

unkel

Originally posted by Count666
Evan BMW, once thought of as unbreakable have suffered in the last few years, however, because of the reputation they have, people just think its a fluke.

I've heard / read about issues with new mercs, in particular with models that are manufactured outside Germany, but about BMW, that is new to me. Care to back that up?

Easygainer

They are not fast cars if that's what you are looking for. They are not overly reliable and the after sales service is terrible. BUT, they are fun and they are aesthetically nice.

It depends on your priorities - they are also very thirsty cars!

[DF]Lenny

Having had Alfa's from the Alfasud to the 156 I agree with most of the reliability points above,however it all depends on the type of person you are.If you consider a car as a mode of transport or if everytime you get in your car you smile/cry/shout(Delete as applicable) then the Alfa is for you.I've traded in my 156 (giving in to the constant whining from wife/friends) and bought a Renault Laguna 2.I can confidently say it was the worst motoring decision i've ever made....next year its back to Alfa

unkel

Originally posted by [DF]Lenny
I've traded in my 156 (giving in to the constant whining from wife/friends) and bought a Renault Laguna]

OMG that's like emotional suicide - get back to a real car asap

Is1ldur

A mate of mine from a different forum posted the following regarding exactly this topic;

That's right, as all right thinking people know, without going near one, all Alfas are unreliable.
From the same detailed research I can also state that all BMW's are driven by pink fluffy dicers, all Saxo's have their fog lights on all the time, all Skodas are rubbish, all Rovers are driven by pensioners, all Americans talk too much, all french women have hairy armpits and all English people eat scones with strawberry jam at precisely 11:00 am each morning and take tea with the vicar.

I think that pretty much sums it up

Also to state that Alfa's are not fast cars shows more ignorance. Have you even bothered to check the horsepower figures? Compare a 2l BMW or Volvo to a 2l Alfa? Never mind the GTA at 250 HP. You cannot just make sweeping statements like that!

By the way, UNkel, I was srong, I should have been referring to the recent coil problems on the 1.8t engines that the VW's have suffered, not BMW.

unkel

Originally posted by Count666
By the way, UNkel, I was srong, I should have been referring to the recent coil problems on the 1.8t engines that the VW's have suffered, not BMW.

Ah that's a relief

STaN

Alfa's generally have a few teathing problems. Having a few hundred cars on a leased fleet you get a feel for them.

The main problem is with their electrics - especially if their driven hard or any kind of milage on them. BUT if you really like them, you'll see past them

Tommy Vercetti

Thanks for all the input. I will be buying a car towards the end of March, I've got a couple of others in mind so I haven't made up my mind just yet. It does sound exactly what I am looking for though.

One other thing, from reading various reviews, the V6 (2.5, not GTA) isn't as highly regarded as the 2.0, fine engine but not in a 156. Also, the Selespeed is a disaster, it's a case of when it goes wrong, not if.

[DF]Lenny

Having the inside track on this I can tell you that the 2.0 is the most balanced car in the range.It also does'nt suffer as badly residual wise as the 2.5.The selespeed is a disaster(although fun).The facelifted model has cut down on warranty issues by as much as 50% so its a fairly reliable car now.Also be VERY wary of the dealer you choose to buy off,mostly 'converted' dealers tend to have brutal support.