Unemployment among disabled people still unacceptably high

Suzybie

Unemployment among disabled people still unacceptably high
From Irish independent.ie


12:25 Wednesday January 14th 2004



Unemployment rates among the disabled remain unacceptably high, despite efforts to address the problem, according to a report published today by the National Disability Authority. The report said that only 40% of disabled people aged between 16 and 64 were currently in employment. It also said that the public sector had yet to meet its 3% target for the employment of people with disabilities. Angela Kerins, the chair of the National Disability Authority, said the failure to meet this target was particularly disappointing. "3% isn't a very high quota," she said. "There are an awful lot of very able people with disabilities, they have lots of skills and abilities and can be very, very valuable employees."


Comment....
Oh please stop patronising us....why doesn't she just say pat us on the head and we'll smile...

Amz

I feel many disabled people are too comfortable to be bothered going out and looking for a job. What with disability allowances and other benefits available to them. Often they use their disability as an excuse and have the attitude "why go work for a few hours each week when I can get €100 odd handed to me each week for doing nothng?"

Employers are I've found very willing to accomadate people with disabilities, I had one employer who modified his entire filing system and cash register system to accomodate my visual impairmen which I was totally surprised at given the attitude many other people seem to have expressed experienced. If you don't talk to an employer even prior to beginning a job then how can they be expected to understand your strengths limitations or where things may need to be adapted so you can perform your duties adequately.

Falkorre

Originally posted by Amz
I feel many disabled people are too comfortable to be bothered going out and looking for a job. What with disability allowances and other benefits available to them. Often they use their disability as an excuse and have the attitude "why go work for a few hours each week when I can get €100 odd handed to me each week for doing nothng?"

Amz m8,
I have to disagree with you hugely here!
MANY people with disabilities want to and try to find employment, but the barriers imposed make that impossible for some, especially in a country which has yet to accecpt the concept of working from home as valid.

Aside from the problems accessing the actual buildings themselves, "access" runs a LOT deeper than that.

Ever had to take a job in a company where you knew you were only employed as the "Token Cripp"? Not pleasant, believe me.

Ever had to take a job where you were resented by 90% of the people you work with because things like getting a laptop to enable you to do ur job, made them feel somhow inadequate? Not pleasant, believe me.

Ever had to take a job you know is much more of a menial position than you deserve with high academic qualifications and experience because one person in one HR dept feels people with disabilities have to prove to HIM they can do the job?

Ever had to have to feel guilty for tearing paint off the frame of an office door because it is too narrow for ur chair, and have to sit in said office with 3 others while the company pays for somone to repaint it?

Ever had to ask your boss, time and time again, to give you time off because you have a urinary tract infection?

Ever had to ask somone to make an expensive change to your working enviroment to accomodate a wheelchair?

I could go on and on and on.

Amz, I have worked since I left mainstream school after completing my leaving cert a year early, I went to college, while working, and now, at 27, have an Msc. in adult psychology and diplomas in behavioural science, community welfare, I.T. Visual arts, arts administration, gallery managment and a few others. I am also one of 6 gov recomended lecturers on equality, law reform and discrimination related issues.

I worked in some kickass jobs others would have killed for, then, my condition worsened a bit and I became no longer able to work full time without seriously harming my health. And also because of ridiculous transport issues.

And amz, simply because, this country refuses to see the value of a highly trained person, perfectly capable of working from home, I have to work selling DIY products to the masses. A job I dislike in a big way.

Now, you tell me that I didnt try? I can tell you a hundred stories that are like mine amz, all true.

All is not often how it seems my friend, and sweeping statments like ....Often they use their disability as an excuse and have the attitude "why go work for a few hours each week when I can get €100 odd handed to me each week for doing nothng?" ....only serve to strenghten a gross misconception that many employers and members of the general public, are still subscribers to, because mostly it is left unchallenged.

B

Seraphina

now i know i may not know a whole lot about disability issues etc. but i have to kind of agree with Amz. its not that i have a problem with disabled people getting an allowance, i understand many people are prevented from working because of their problems, however i also think that much like the social welfare system, its quite prone to abuse, and perhaps there are many people who are disabled and receiving an allowance, even though they are perfectly able for many jobs.
a specific example is of people applying for 'psychological disabilities' when there is absolutely nothing wrong with them.
i know of two such people myself.
yes i know its from a cartoon but the simpsons is another example, homer gains weight and is given exemptions from work. it is obviously an over-exaggerated example but many people look for excuses not to work, and given the overly pc nature of society these days, the government is all too willing to accomodate those who are 'disabled' and 'cannot' work.

yellum

I gotta go with Amz and Dawntreader here. Taking the middle ground.

I personally know of some relations that have disabilities and ride the state for money. Getting a free car, petrol money and tax yet never driving the car and giving it to an able bodied husband which he used as a work vehicle. Free holidays a few times a year. Loads of other stuff.

Yet I can also see other diabled people wthat the state neglects and does not look out for. The system is full of holes allowing some to cream a lot of money and others to get fucked about. Its a system still developing that needs improvement. Its a system made by humans and its imperfect.

Actually, this gives me an idea for a new thread that might stimulate debate and get more traffic to this forum....

Amz

I think the main reason so many people are neglected by the state is because of lack of information. These people aren't aware of their entitlements and as such don't and won't go about applying for them.

The reason so many abuse the system as with the unemployment benefits is that we have a state where people are reluctant to report abuse. They'll quite happily come home and bitch about people using the system and how it's affecting others yet will do nothing about it. I know it's all down to not wanting to be seen as a rat but there's no way that things will change if these attitudes continue.

Falkorre

I think we are confusing two seperate issues somwhat here.
I think we are confusing able-bodied people who are commiting welfare fraud with people with disabilities. A common mistake. :rolleyes:

My point was, from the point of view of people with real, valid, medically recognised disabilities, you guys seem to be talking about that kind of person who plays the system in general, same person who abuses child welfare, medical card, dole etc etc.
Not really specific to disability allowances, imho it would apply to all welfare payments and schemes. But I guess disability is a popular one, because its the hardest to prove.
Thing is ya see, when real people with disabilities apply for disability allowance it usually takes a minimum of 6 months to be approved, did u know that?

Personally, here, i think it is vital we do not lose sight of the fact that people with disabilities which do limit their ability to work, are not sponging from the state, they are trying to survive as best they can.
Personally, I hate to see people playing the system to that extent, *but* id rather that than the thought of somone in genuine need dying because of neglect.

Now yellum, where can I get that free holiday? just for research purposes ya understand? *wink wink, nudge nudge* and do u think it could be to San Francisco?? Preferably in June or july, on a plane full of calvin klein underwear models dressed for a photoshoot pleeeeeeease!

B

Victor

Originally posted by Seraphina
a specific example is of people applying for 'psychological disabilities' when there is absolutely nothing wrong with them.

As one of these people with 'psychological disabilities' I take exception to the comment 'there is absolutely nothing wrong with them'. There are many things wrong with me, not just my fear of being in a workplace (no, not because I'm lazy), but the very real possibility that I would lash out and do either damage or injury.

Seraphina

im not saying there aren't people out there with pyschological disabilities, just saying its an easy category to abuse. how can you prove someone doesn't having psychological disabilities if you think they're cheating the state?

im not talking about the same people that abuse the welfare system btw Dawntreader, and i stressed ( well i meant to) that i wasn't referring to people who were prevented from working by their disabilities.

i work with several disabled people, all perfectly able for their jobs, but who could probably claim allowances if they wanted to (im not sure of their exact circumstances) my point was that for every disabled person who is well able to work and is working, there is probably another who is choosing not to, just because they can.

and victor i wasn't talking about people with real pyschological disabilities, i was just pointing out its a very grey area, and its very easy for people to prey on that.

maybe thats why you thought i'd mixed the two up Dawntreader

tell u what i'm going to step away from this thread now, i clearly dont know enough about the area to voice an opinion :rolleyes:

eth0_

Originally posted by Victor
As one of these people with 'psychological disabilities' I take exception to the comment 'there is absolutely nothing wrong with them'. There are many things wrong with me, not just my fear of being in a workplace (no, not because I'm lazy), but the very real possibility that I would lash out and do either damage or injury.

Victor - What disability do you have, as a matter of interest?

There's probably a MUCH MUCH smaller percentage of disabled people on benefits who are sponging and not bothered to get a job compared to their able bodied counterparts who arse around on the (very generous!) dole payments!

I can understand why a disabled person would feel disheartened about entering the world of work in this country. There's not just the prejudice they encounter, but also, as dawntreader said, the abhorrent state of wheelchair access (or lack thereof) in office buildings in this country, as was highlighted during the Special Olympics.

Victor

Originally posted by eth0_
Victor - What disability do you have, as a matter of interest?

Not disability as such but I suffer from depression, stress and anxiety and am certified unfit for work.

Falkorre

ok, some interesting points are on the verge of being raised here, but I just wanna make a few things clear before i sit back with my fingers tented under my chin again....

Firstoff, seraphina, there was no implication meant that you did not "know enough about the area to voice an opinion"..... it was just the way you had worded it was easilly misunderstood.
Everyone is welcome here, I would be very very pissed if i ever thought this was gonna become a forum ONLY for people with disabilities, thats not a place i wanna be.
You and everyone else are welcome here, as long as a person is open-minded and open to discussion they are welcome. And no-one will get anywhere if we disapere when somone misunderstands somthing we said online hon

secondly, and imho more importantly, I said above, but i wanna clarify, there are NO "i am a pwd" badges that have to be shown here. Asking somone what disability they have is all well and good, but i wanna make perfectly clear, it is not a question that ever has to be answered, and its reason for not being answered cannot be questioned, that is not on.
If somone wants to say, kewl, if they dont than thats kewl too k?

To my mind, not one person on this planet is without disability of one sort or another, whether that be psychological, psychiatric, physical, economic, social, verbal, visual, etc etc ad-nauseum.

So lets stick to issue based stuff for the moment ok?

B

mechanima

Frankly, as far as I can see if you have a Psychological Disability it had BETTER include an aversion to work...because you are not going to get the slightest assistance or encouragement to get any.

I have Psychological Disability...probably high function autism complicated by other abuse related syndromes. In essence I cannot function around people or sustain ongoing interactions and relationships...I cannot read people or make sense of social games. I have to live as a total recluse.

BUT...

Within that limitation I am extremelly intelligent, talented and something of a workaholic. There is NO DOUBT in my mind that if the right supports were made available to me I could have worked and earned my own living for years, and perhaps could still do so IN SPITE of a degenerative lung condition.

I have begged, I have pleaded, I have pestered ministers, I have threatened, I have literally tried EVERYTHING.

The support I would need would be minimal and would mostly consist in negotiating work I could do in conditions I could tolerate.

At best I have been dumped in situations I hadn't a hope of handling and left to drown there, resulting in a total breakdown that took years to recover from, I have been subjected to both intentional and unintentional abuse in supported employment schemes...

People in relevant State Aided bodies have promised to help, then forgotten I existed and refused to return my calls.

If I am nice I get brushed under the carpet, if I am nasty I get minimal hostile assistance and a lot of head games of the kind I can least tolerate.

And this does not only apply to employment, this applies to EVERY kind of support to which I have a legal right, for which I have desperate need, and to which I cannot get de facto access. I cannot get ANY form of appropriate help...I can only fight the stonewalling so long, then I cannot face it again for years.

I do not even have crisis resources to turn to, and whatever I do or say I cannot seem to get any.

Today I discover that the goalposts are being changed to define the supported employment networks in terms of geography rather than specialisation. So that, as soon as you are outside Dublin you are stuck with what you get, appropriate or not...

By the book I am stuck with an office 90 minutes from me, in a town inaccessible to me for some of the winter where there is already a bitter history of irresolveable issues going back 7 years and a persistent ignorance of my needs and nature.

So as I said...if you do get Psychological Disability...I hope you are faking it, because as far as I can see that IS your only hope...

G

Victor

Who you talkin' 'bout Willis?

mechanima

Me, you, anyone Victor...

Same rule applies to all, when it comes to Psychological Disability the only way you get real options is if you are faking it...THEN you have an option on stopping...

But it seems like, if you are genuine you are scr*wed, sooner or later...

Spent another wonderful day finding out essentially, how many MORE people could help me with my disability if only I didn't have my disability...

*sighs*

G

Victor

It's just that a lot of it felt very familiar as I was reading it. The near absolute absence of support is appalling and must be cost the country hundreds of milliions of euros every year, not just to employees, but to employers who loose staff or can't afford staff.

mechanima

Victor...will you QUIT READING MY MAIL please?



Cos my catchphrase for the week has become...

"...and surely this isn't even cost effective?"

I dunno how long it is going to take the state to figure out that is COSTS to keep people on welfare and PAYS to support people into self sufficient employment...

Oh I know the state is "talking the talk" on that one, these days...but that's no use if you can't "walk the walk", now is it?

G

Falkorre

[Edited]
Rest of thread edited. Getting way outa hand.

Discussion on above topic welcome to continue here

B