Reference from Employer that fired me

Lafortezza

Right, I've got a letter from a prospective job that just needs a reference from a particular company (Company A lets call them) that I worked for a while ago before my application is processed and I should (hopefully) get the job.

The thing is I was fired from Company A for reasons I won't go into, it was the whole do not touch your PC, gather your things and get out type of deal.

Now the job that is looking for a reference from Company A is the type that won't process my application (and give me the job) without the reference from Company A.
So basically I am going to have to approach my ex-boss(es) from Company A asking for a reference.

My problem is that
1) What would be the best way to approach company A to get this reference, I'm prepared to do anything pretty much, no matter how much brown-nosing/apologies etcetc is involved.
At the moment I'm planning on writing an email to my manager and the MD in company A explaining the whole situation and hopefully they had a nice Christmas and will take pity.

2) The second thing is the type of reference they might give me.
I don't think companies give bad references anymore, they just refuse to give a reference at all. I'd be delighted with a simple letter stating that "Lafortezza worked in Company A between the dates x and y"
Any more than that is very unlikely.

3) If no reference is forthcoming from Company A, has anyone any ideas about how to reply to the request for the reference from the new job? Can I say a reference is unavailable? or that my manager has gone from that company (a lie)? Any other ideas?

Please help if you can cos this new job would be a big step up
Ta,
L.

seamus

Probably best, if you got on with any manager/Team leader in old place, to go to them and have a chat, basically outlining that you don't want a good reference, that you just don't want them to mention that you were fired.
If you refer the new employer to someone who didn't know you (ie HR or your ex-manager's manager), chances are they'll just ream off everything on your file, including your dismissal.
You could also try spoof it (get a mate to pose as a reference), but I'll leave that up to you.

You may also be lucky. Your new employer may just be looking to know that you did work there and didn't lie on your application. A dismall would be inconsequential.

You could also come clean, say "Listen I was dismissed from the job for reason X, I thought you should know this before I gave you the reference". Again, as above this could be fifty-fifty. As long as your dismissal wasn't due to gross incompentence, illegal acts or maliciousness, I doubt they would worry too much.

Lafortezza

Originally posted by seamus
As long as your dismissal wasn't due to gross incompentence, illegal acts or maliciousness, I doubt they would worry too much.

Hmm, the basic outline is that I made some mistakes on work for a client (not malicious just mistakes), the client kicked up a fuss, and since the client was apparently more valuable than little old me, I got the bullet.

I've typed out an email I'll send to my ex manager and MD, spelling out the situation, and asking them for a statement of the dates I worked there. Its all very polite and so on, so I'll probably send that on monday. All I can do is ask.

I don't think I can spoof it as it would be a written reference/thing that I'd be looking for, would pretty much have to have company stationary for it.

Originally posted by seamus
You could also come clean, say "Listen I was dismissed from the job for reason X, I thought you should know this before I gave you the reference". Again, as above this could be fifty-fifty.

Its a Civil Service job I'd be going for. Unfortunately I've no idea if they are looking for proof I worked at Company A, or if they need to know I'm a perfect employee :dunno:

thanks for the advice seamus

seamus

Originally posted by lafortezza
Hmm, the basic outline is that I made some mistakes on work for a client (not malicious just mistakes), the client kicked up a fuss, and since the client was apparently more valuable than little old me, I got the bullet.

Yeah, unfortunately saying "I was just a patsy" will not look good to your new employers

eth0_

A referee CANNOT say 'Jimmy was fired'. It's illegal to give a ref like this afaik. However, in the unlikely event the prospective employer ASKED were you fired, then they can say yes.

They can't give you a 'bad' reference. They'll probably just say you worked there from x date to y date and you did your job ok.

If you're paranoid, get a mate to ring up and pose as a prospective employer and hear what they ahve to say about you.

Farls

Get the reference from the company yourself (tell them you have to print it and bring it with you to an interview) and fix it upto your liking if its not satisfactory then change the referee's name on it and put down a number that either belongs to a mate of yours or a number that doesn't work even.

Most companys don't actually ring up about prospective employee's from what i've seen and heard.

Just an idea

Farlz

eth0_

The trend nowadays is not to take written references for exactly the reason you've just illustrated. They ask for a contact number where they can speak to your referee

Zaph

Where I work managers have been instructed not to give references if asked, but instead to direct the request to the HR department. The standard reference that they hand out is that "Joe Bloggs worked for ABC Ltd between X and Y" and nothing more. Apparently the reason for this is that some companies had been threatened with legal action over comments that they had included in references, e.g. Mick was a great employee who never missed a day's work, whereas Mick actually was a lazy bollix who came in a couple of days a week. It seems that most companies are issuing references with empoyment dates only to avoid potential litigation. Hopefully your former employers will follow suit.

Elmo

I left a company, as in one day i did turn up, i was having a bad day and hate the job and the company, rang them to say I wasn't ever coming back on the day. I have them down as work experience. Will other companies ring them up to see if I work with them and ask about me.

There is not much they can say about me I don't think that they would remember me, after I had left I sent an email to my team leader, who wrote back with "..... company wishes you the best in your furture" kind of like a referance, which I thought was odd.

So what do companies do with work experience?

Agent Smith

Originally posted by eth0_
If you're paranoid, get a mate to ring up and pose as a prospective employer and hear what they ahve to say about you.

i like that idea.... it's evil enough to work!

BrianD3

Its a Civil Service job

In that case, don't try any funny business like getting a friend to write you a bogus reference. I have found that the civil service ar very thorough when it comes to checking references.

If you get caught trying to spoof a reference, that will be noted and kept on file by the Civil Service and Local Appointments Comissioners and your chances of ever getting a job in the public service will be slim.

As others have said try to get a "neutral" reference from your previous employer. One that just states what dates you worked there etc. Try to get one from someone in the company that you had direct dealings with (supervisor etc.) and see if this is acceptable for the comissioners.

BrianD3

Lafortezza

Originally posted by BrianD3
In that case, don't try any funny business like getting a friend to write you a bogus reference. I have found that the civil service ar very thorough when it comes to checking references.

Yeah I wouldn't risk that at all. I asked my previous employer for that reference and got a statement of the dates I worked with the company and a contact number and name.
Then as my other post in this forum explains I got asked for a reference from my current employer.
I got that on friday, weird conversation with my current boss to say the least, and I'll send it on monday. Here's hoping thats the last step.

leeroybrown

I think that when it comes to HR issues with companies deliberately using lies/falsehoods is pretty much a bad idea ful stop. On the other hand a bit of hyperbole never hurt anyone and is expected. I wouldn't modify any reference an employer/former-employer gave me under any circumstances.

If the company dismissed you to placate a large client then there has to be some people there who think that you deserve a reasonable reference. I generally just give cntact details for someone with seniority I know will give me a fair reference. As mentioned above a HR dept would be complete bástárds to mention your dismissal without direct questioning.

A good reference from your curent employer should offset any neutrality from your previous one.

Our man in Havana

Originally posted by leeroybrown
I think that when it comes to HR issues with companies deliberately using lies/falsehoods is pretty much a bad idea ful stop. On the other hand a bit of hyperbole never hurt anyone and is expected. I wouldn't modify any reference an employer/former-employer gave me under any circumstances.

If the company dismissed you to placate a large client then there has to be some people there who think that you deserve a reasonable reference. I generally just give cntact details for someone with seniority I know will give me a fair reference. As mentioned above a HR dept would be complete bástárds to mention your dismissal without direct questioning.

A good reference from your curent employer should offset any neutrality from your previous one.

Is it not standard practice to ask for a reference from your current employer only when you are in the new post?

Lafortezza

Originally posted by Bond-James Bond
Is it not standard practice to ask for a reference from your current employer only when you are in the new post?

You'd think so wouldn't you? Those crazy Civil Servants, they're probably all high on mind-bending drugs..

seamus

Originally posted by Bond-James Bond
Is it not standard practice to ask for a reference from your current employer only when you are in the new post?

Depends on the job I suppose. Most job offers I've ever had tend to say something along the lines of "Your employment is subject to a x month probationary period and satisfactory receipt of references."

Indeed, my current job refused to formally offer me the position until they got my reference.