e-mail from UTV confirming SKY ROI!

bishop brennan

Hi Folks
Just got this reply from UTV on the issue of whether they would be on SKY in Ireland.


Dear Sean

Thank you for your e-mail enquiry.Although we have reached agreement with sky
to be carried on their digital platform in ROI,we are still waiting for programme
rights clearance which may take some time.

Unfortunatley i cannot be more specific on a time scale at this stage, as the
negotiations have been quite lenghthy and there are a number of parties involved.

We appreciate when viewers take time to let us know their views and your
comments will be seen by senior utv management.

Yours sincerely,

Nicola Bothwell Press & PR Officer

Mossy Monk

still doesnt say much. it is obvious Sky would take them but it's the programme rights that take ages. could be a very long wait

byte

Again, showing that TV3 must be their biggest/only hurdle:dunno:

Charles Slane

Well at least there is finally official confirmation of the status.

So now it's definitely a question of "when" rather than "if".

It seems to be pretty clear that TV3 is causing the hold-up. Ironic really considering how much they whine about RTE being dual-funded and wanting fair competition. I agree with them to an extent, but they knew the situation before they applied for a license.

EKRIUQ

Sooner the better

shabbyroad

I'm not so sure that TV3 are entirely 'in-the-wrong' here. The issue, as I understand it, is programme rights. TV3 bought the "Irish" rights to certain programmes (such as Coronation St). UTV are now seeking to broadcast into Ireland on a particular platform where TV3 are already present.
A deal needs to be worked out so that TV3's investment is protected. It seems fair enough to me. If RTE wanted to add Network2 to the SKY EPG in the UK they would have similar problems.

DMC

True, but the anomaly all along was that UTV is available throughout Ireland on cable and MMDS, so why arent TV3 kicking up more of a fuss about that?

Interesting development, though.

The Rooster

RTE going on the UK EPG would be a lot different to UTV joining the Irish EPG! RTE is not available in UK, but currently most people in Ireland can view UTV, either via an aerial, via Chorus or via NTL.

TV3 would lose some viewers if UTV came on EPG, but it wouldnt be near catastrophic proportions as UTV is so widely available in any case. The biggest losers by far would be NTL and Chorus.

watty

Can't see how TV3 would be affected at all. Anyone that really wants UTV already has it.


We get TV3 by analog only and having UTV (we have Northern Accent ;-) )only marginally affects our viewing of TV3.

Which you going to watch at Breakfast time?


BBC is watched much more than UTV here.

I also watch Discovery Europe FTA from Turksat 42E in Digital, it get more viewing than UTV or TV3. Esp from the littlest one. While if you select French Audio, you DO get English instead of Turkish, and the samish programs are on as on Sky 28.2 the Schedule is not remotely similar. We have know idea what is on when. Tango TV (19E or 13E??) shows FTA Simpsons in English, but again I never keep track of Schedule.


I have always suspected UTV *NOT* being on Sky Family Pack (It won't be free) is more about some deal with NTL/Chorus. They are the only ones that will suffer.

I can't see me ever going back to Pay TV, I don't watch sport and I buy DVDs or VHS of any films I really think I would watch more than once. i.e. Local Hero (DVD) was Eur8 in Heitons.

With BBC, CNN, BBC World, DW TV, Nile TV, Discovery Europe, Performance, TCM, TV3, TG4, RTE1, RTE2, C4, Five, UTV and a gazzillion other free channels I never watch why would I want to pay 28 Euro a month to BSkyB that can buy 1 to 4 DVDs intsead? (And no mysterious CAMS or dodgy SW or Cards on the PC Satellite Receiver either).

robert muldoon

Do not Can- West have a part to play in all of this, being big shareholders in both TV3 and UTV, surely one of these days TV 3 is ripe to be bought out either by the new ITV,Can-West or UTV now would'nt that sort out all the 'rights' problems?,

BrianD

Confirmation????? Should the thread not read "still no change" which is a more accurate portrayal of the situation?

Charles Slane

Originally posted by shabbyroad
I'm not so sure that TV3 are entirely 'in-the-wrong' here. The issue, as I understand it, is programme rights. TV3 bought the "Irish" rights to certain programmes (such as Coronation St).

I wonder if TV3 have the Irish Pay-TV rights to it's programmes. Given that you have to subscribe to Sky in order to receive TV3, it would be funny if UTV tripped them up on a technicality.

Mossy Monk

do the BBC own the satellite rights for Eastenders in ROI. someone mentioned it the other day. if so they could force RTÉ1 to go blank on satellite for 2 hours a week. not that the BBC would be bothered anyway

shabbyroad

The problem, as I see it, is the platform. TV3 will have broadcast rights on satellite for certain shows in ROI.
UTV might not (or believe that they might) - it depends upon how good the contracts are.
It's quite possible that there is an anomally in the contracts that give rights for satellite broadcast on , say, The Bill, to both TV3 and UTV and this could be the source of the problem and subsequent negotiation.

BBC probably don't have the exclusive satellite rights for ROI - they will have sold these to RTE and no doubt part of the contract will have been that on satellite RTE are the only Irish broadcaster with those rights.

RTE going on the EPG in the UK is an issue for this very reason : they don't have broadcast rights (either terrestrial or satellite) in the UK for their bought-in programming. That's why they have/had TaraTV in the UK which only broadcast content that RTE had rights to (their own).

Mike 1972

do the BBC own the satellite rights for in ROI. someone mentioned it the other day. if so they could force RTÉ1 to go blank on satellite for 2 hours a week. not that the BBC would be bothered anyway

Why would anyone watch Eastenders on RTE when they could watch it without the adbreaks on BBC ?

(then again why would anyone watch Eastenders full stop )

RTE is available in the UK (and I dont just mean Northern Ireland) parts of Wales can get it ?

Yes RTÉ is available over a lot of North , west and south Wales via an aerial , I've seen it there.

There was a poster on the terrestrial forum reporting good UHF tv3 and tg4 reception from Mount Leinster in South Wales too from a location in pembrokeshire near the presely transmitter there if I recall correctly.

Tony

From whay I've been told the problem is a clause in the agreement between TV3 and granada over the exclusive right to show Granada programming in ROI, its not a broadcast rights issue in the general sense.

Tony

Originally posted by shabbyroad
The problem, as I see it, is the platform. TV3 will have broadcast rights on satellite for certain shows in ROI.
UTV might not (or believe that they might) - it depends upon how good the contracts are.
I

watty

RTE is not "offically" available in UK. It is called transmission overspill. RTE have NO rights for UK transmission.


Apart from some sport, because Ireland has about 75% coverage of UK TV even BEFORE satellite, there is no rights issues for UK broadcasters in Ireland. Also because of small size (1/20th of viewers) even Holywood more or less chucks Ireland in free with rights bought for UK.


On the other hand for RTE, the UK viewership is 20 times the Irish market, No Doubt NTL cable in NI pays for rights, even so Five got NTL to blank RTE "Home & Away" on cable. About 60% of NI can receive RTE off air terrestrially, but again this is "unoffical overspill" it doesn't count in the mad world of Rights Management.


While you can get ALL of the BBC (about 22 + channels, mix TV and Radio) FTA via satellite in Ireland, only BBC1 and BBC2 is "offically" marketed or targeted here and Sky, just like NTL and Chorus actually PAY TO the BBC for it being in Family pack here, which is why only BBC1 and BBC2 NI is in Irish EPG.


Yes it is all daft. But that is how it works.

There is no good reason (relating to rights) as to why UTV is not part of the Irish Family Pack (pay TV). The reason is no doubt more obscure and may or may not be due to Granada's shareholding in TV3 and that UTV is one the few last "independant" ITVs outside of the Carlton/Granada merged group. Or due to some deal with NTL or Chorus. But almost certinally NOT a Rights issue.


Tara TV is long gone. RTE killed it by charging it too much for "rights" to RTE programs (even though RTE was a major shareholder). So it went "bust" (artifically, as if RTE had really wanted they could have charged more realistically for "rights"), and mysterously / co-incidently RTE pulled the plug on it the same month they signed the infamous secret deal with Sky..
Free carriage and Encryption for RTE and Sky decides Price, Package etc. Any other details are "secret". RTE amazingly thought this was a good deal for Irish TV viewer forgetting:
1) It might look good on accounts in Donnybrook, but the Licence payer has to Pay Sky.
2) Sky gives NOTHING free. the "free box and dish" isn't as Sky recover the money in profit of 12months sub. 2 year is absolute gravy! So obviously Sky profits hugely.
3) Control of Irish Satellite broadcasting is TOTALLY under BSKYB. Comreg has no control over Sky.
4) They are a Public Service Broadcaster. Many people get poor or no terrestrial service.

I have no idea what deal TV3 did. No-one will tell me. TG4, while in theory a separate entity from RTE was at the time 100% under RTE control and no doubt is covered by RTE deal.


Pigs will fly before either RTE is in UK "offically" or anything like Tara is started again. A Tara like station is plausible to UK and indeed Europe, Asia, America etc like BBC Prime/ BBC America, or even BBC World. It made no sense to kill Tara. But given lack of "vision" and worries of lack of cash at Donnybrook, we won't see Tara or indeed any of the promised new Irish Digital TV Channels either.

watty

Originally posted by Tony
From whay I've been told the problem is a clause in the agreement between TV3 and granada over the exclusive right to show Granada programming in ROI, its not a broadcast rights issue in the general sense.

Tony

Yes I'd be inclined to believe the sticking point is Granada. They aren't over fond of UTV and regard TV3 as the Ireland ITV franchise.

UTV of course can't see why all of Ireland not just NI isn't their market hence buying of radio stations and provision of Internet services here.

Tony

Originally posted by LurkingIcon
Yes I'd be inclined to believe the sticking point is Granada. They aren't over fond of UTV and regard TV3 as the Ireland ITV franchise.

UTV of course can't see why all of Ireland not just NI isn't their market hence buying of radio stations and provision of Internet services here.

Actually its TV3 ,granada drove this issue in the first place, strange I know as there is common ownership between themselves and Can west

Tony

And of course NTL but particularly the truly woefull chorus wouldnt be happy with the the popular UTV being on the by contrast excelent Sky digital with it's much bigger channel choice,excelent picture and digital sound quality.

One wonders if there any spanner in the works lobbying going on??:rolleyes:

zak

As I was the first to say UTV will NOT be available in Eire on the Sky platform here is food for thought. The Irish Government get little or nothing from Sky in Ireland but they do get money from NTL and Chorus for EACH customer they have, RTE is State owned so if RTE's advertising revenue drops the Government has to pump more money in to keep it going. These are Facts. So if UTV was available on SKY in Ireland, it would mean less NTL & Chorus customers and also less advertising revenues for RTE. Come on people WAKE up no UTV in the south from SKY for a long, long time. Just think about it.

DaveH

Ok Zak, I agree that there might not be UTV on SKY ROI for a long, long, long time. But the reason you give it bulls**t. Why? because it vioaltes every EU law in the book. That would be anti-compitive agaisnt SKY it would also show prefernce to the Irish state broadcaster and would possibly give TV3 alot of amunition as they say the License fee is too high.

zak

I agree with you Dave, that it would be against EU law. But you surely can’t be that innocent and think that our corrupt politicians can’t delay any thing they want when they want. With any excuse they want............................................. Remember you are now living in a Police State........................Mind the men in Black!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DMC

The govt have nothing to do with UTV appearing on Sky. Move along, please.

Tony

I'm afraid what you call facts are nothing of the sort. The government does get money from each and every sky customer.( I should know I pay a big VAT bill on sky installs every two months) I doubt if RTE's revenue would drop as UTV is already available in the majority of households in the country who have cable. The issue is quite clear, the only thing currently preventing UTV on Sky is Granadas original agreement with TV3 when they took a stakeholding.

Telling contributors to "wake up" does nothing to contribute to the debate.

Tony

Originally posted by zak
As I was the first to say UTV will NOT be available in Eire on the Sky platform here is food for thought. The Irish Government get little or nothing from Sky in Ireland but they do get money from NTL and Chorus for EACH customer they have, RTE is State owned so if RTE's advertising revenue drops the Government has to pump more money in to keep it going. These are Facts. So if UTV was available on SKY in Ireland, it would mean less NTL & Chorus customers and also less advertising revenues for RTE. Come on people WAKE up no UTV in the south from SKY for a long, long time. Just think about it.

The Rooster

Somebody mentioned above that one of the ways of obtaining UTV in ROI is via an aerial, if you live in certain areas of Ireland, e.g. Dublin. BBC1NI, BBC2NI and CH4 can also be recieved in this way, but I understand CH5 cannot. Any reason why not?

Originally posted by The Rooster
Somebody mentioned above that one of the ways of obtaining UTV in ROI is via an aerial, if you live in certain areas of Ireland, e.g. Dublin. BBC1NI, BBC2NI and CH4 can also be recieved in this way, but I understand CH5 cannot. Any reason why not?

Because ch5 is not carried by NI transmitters.

It is carried by the presely transmitter in Wales which is receivable along the East coast from Dublin south to waterford, but at it's best from about mid wicklow down through wexford and other parts of the South East depending on location.

DMC

Sorry, man, it is in Belfast, off Black Mountain, but at very low power compared with the monster that is Divis. Parts of Dundalk can get the Channel 5 signal.

Mossy Monk

with a big enough aerial (or 2) i am sure the WestCountry is possible from the Co. Waterford coast. i am picking up a faint Channel 4 (uhf ch.32) from there every now and again but deflectors hijack the signal of most channels from there pity because the aerial is tiny and pointing in a northerly direction

Originally posted by DMC
Sorry, man, it is in Belfast, off Black Mountain, but at very low power compared with the monster that is Divis. Parts of Dundalk can get the Channel 5 signal.

Oh I didn't know that, tiz news to me.
Bet with the correct twelve aerial ironmongery you could get a more reliable ch 5 in Dundalk from presely tho

Why isn't Ch 5 listed as one of black mountains channels here tho which is where I checked ??

But it is here which seems silly.

rcunning03

does anybody know any details about an all ireland broadcasting as a result of the good friday agreement or was that a dream i had

sceptre

Originally posted by rcunning03
does anybody know any details about an all ireland broadcasting as a result of the good friday agreement or was that a dream i had

Specifically aimed at Irish language channels only. I've had that dream in the past too:)

bishop brennan

Well at least we know down the road we will get UTV .
lads some of you get very worked up on this thread (Which i apologise for starting!!!)

LegacyUser

Totally off-topic, but Bishop Brennan, how about one of these for your sig:

"You will address me by my proper title, you little bollocks!"

"Don't call me Len, you prick. Refer to me as 'Bishop Brennan'!"

bishop brennan

"CRILLY"!

EKRIUQ

Great show it was on channel 4 so most of us on $ky could'ent get it untill it RTE boughts the rights:D

Gonzo

Channel 5 is receiveable in Dunshaughlin, Co. Meath thru an aerial altho not many can get it, my neighbour who lives 200mtrs from me can get quite a good Ch5 Aeriel reception some days, where the signal is coming from I dunno tho its prolly most likely Northern Ireland coz we cant get Wales stuff here at all.

lawhec

Channel 5, or "five" as it is now, is transmitted from Black Mountain, next door to Divis Mountain, on Channel 37, horizontal polarity with Max ERP of 50kW compared to the main four channels from Divis. It is also broadcasted from the transmitter on Sherrifs Mountain in Derry City on Channel 31, vertical with 10kW.

It is also carried on DTT from both Divis, Limavady and Brougher Mountain.

BrianD

Tony You brought up the issue of VAT. Perhaps you - or somebody else - can clarify this issue in regard to Sky and where the VAT goes.

What is the VAT rate on a SKY Digital subscription and does it go straight to Her Majesty's Government in Britain.

What is the VAT rate on installs? I assume if you are based in the Republic you are charging Irish VAT on the install at the lower rate.

Tony

Hi Brian, I can only speak with certainty on digiboxes and installs. We charge sky for the full cost price of the box and the install at 21% which amounts to €44.66 VAT per customer. I know NTL recently won its case against the revenue to charge installs at the lower 13% rate but theres is classified as labour only whereas with sky a subsidised box is involved.

Originally posted by BrianD

What is the VAT rate on a SKY Digital subscription and does it go straight to Her Majesty's Government in Britain.

What is the VAT rate on installs? I assume if you are based in the Republic you are charging Irish VAT on the install at the lower rate.

watty

Installs:
Irish 21% VAT, though I suppose if you are getting a box you already own installed it will be 13% Irish VAT.

Reinstalls / House moving special offer installation:
Irish VAT. dunno which rete.

Subscriptions:
UK VAT.

BrianD

Surely a Sky Digital installation is the same as an NTL or Chorus installation except with different kit (obviously). Therefore the lower rate of VAT would apply on the cost of installation.

Nobody seems to know - or want to reveal - the rate of VAT charged on the SKy subscription. Perhaps a commercial customer who gets a VAT invoice can let us know.

Tony

Originally posted by BrianD
Surely a Sky Digital installation is the same as an NTL or Chorus installation except with different kit (obviously). Therefore the lower rate of VAT would apply on the cost of installation.

Nobody seems to know - or want to reveal - the rate of VAT charged on the SKy subscription. Perhaps a commercial customer who gets a VAT invoice can let us know.

No it is completely different as the installer acts as an agent so the 2/3 rule applies and 21% applies. NTL have only recently won a case taken by the revenue to have the higher rate charged.

I thing we are getting off thread topic with the VAT issue as this is a UTV thread.

Tony

EKRIUQ

October 2002

Sky interactive is now available in Ireland. Send and receive e-mail from your Sky digibox with your existing remote control. Make typing messages easier with the new cordless Sky keyboard 39.99 euro .


UTV and Channel 4 are tipped to offically arrive on Sky digital late this month . Watch this space for updates!






September 2002

There are rumors through the industry that UTV will be on the Sky EPG by December 2002
watch this space for updates








April 2002

UTV troubles
UTV has today responded to the blocking of its channel, along with that of the other ITV Channels on Sky Digital Ireland. In a strongly worded statement it placed the blame firmly at the door of the ITV Network Centre, the London-based central scheduling and promotional body of ITV 1. According to the Northern Irish station, the Network took the decision unilaterally and without consulting them, and expressed their disappointment at the Network's stance. However in a move which will perhaps bring some comfort to Southern viewers, UTV confirmed that it is in talks with both Sky for the carriage of the channel and the Network Centre for the clearance of the programme rights. This second public spat between UTV and the ITV Network Centre (controlled by English media giants Carlton and Granada) comes only three weeks after their last fight - over carriage of the ITV Sport Channel and ITV2 in Northern Ireland - was resolved. Hopefully this dispute will not drag on as long....



Taken from a so called Industry website and its the same argument nearly 2 years ago


So blame who you want, TV3, Chorus, NTL, UTV,ITV and anyone else who pisses you off