napoléon

lili

how do we consider him, as a bloody colonisator or a great state man?

simu

See this thread for some ideas:http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=126557

Boney = Napoléon.


In school, he was presented to us more as a great statesman - the only colonisers the teacher had a problem with were those who colonised Ireland!

lili

i see a thread has been already oppened.
the prob of napoléon i think, it's that he has been always confronted to coalitions.
and by the way the french navy couldn't have be able to chalenge english navy.

one day you will have to explain to me the story of ireland and what is the legetimety of the protestant part.

Mark

I like him if only for his flamboyance and battle prowess. Admitedly there's some small corner of my mind thats secretly whispering about the somewhat blatantly colonial nature of Napoleons wars....but dammit the man was cool. And he had sexy quotes.

bloody colonisator or a great state man?

I'd go for both. In pratical terms he had a conquerors nature and as such was mad into a spot of invasion before tea. But it's his better side that helps win him so much support even today; creating the Code Napoleon being the most famous example. A bit like benelovant dictator ala DeVore and the bai's imo .

Apparently it's illegal to name a pig Napoleon in France...

PHB

Which wars would you consider colonial in nature?

simu

I dislike him for his policies on women - these had long-lasting repercussions on French women's struugle for equality.

Mark

Originally posted by PHB
Which wars would you consider colonial in nature?

Invasion of Malta and Egypt in 1799 and I think one can argue the case of the Peninsular War too. Portugal I can understand, allies of Britain as they were (and still are: Trivia secks- Portugal is Britains oldest ally), but the consequent invasion of Spain reeks of expansionism to me anyway.

lili

Originally posted by simu
I dislike him for his policies on women - these had long-lasting repercussions on French women's struugle for equality.

agree, maybe the size of his penis was the reason of this aversion:D

simu

Don't even want to contemplate that!:)

lili

nothing really to be scared, the english people who examined his body after his death said his penis was like a kid penis.
maybe it's the reason why he was so untolerant with the women:p

PHB

I'd argue that his wars were all based on the idea of controlling England, and he really only wanted to return to pre revolution lands, cept for the bottom of Spain.

The invasion of Egypt was to control the Suez Canal, to stop the incredibly wealth made by England in India.
Malta was similarly just to control the mediteranian.

Spain, and his eventual plans of taking the top 3 provinces, was just to keep Spain in check, as they were very vunerable to influence from foreign(i.e. Catholic) powers.

lili

and what about russia?

regeneration

well what self-respecting military leader doesn't get an itching to take on Russia at some point in the their lives

PHB

Russia?
I don't think there is any way to argue that his war againist Russia was "colonial" in anyway.
He merely defended againist Russia, he was not the agressor.

Big Ears

ah yes defended 1/3 of the way into russia. Sounds logical to me. No wait it dosent:dunno:

PHB

Yes, he was defending.
Russia was going to attack, he attacked them first, simple.
If you look at the history, Nap really wanted to avoid the war, as it just annoyed him from his main goal of getting stupid england

Mark

Originally posted by PHB
The invasion of Egypt was to control the Suez Canal, to stop the incredibly wealth made by England in India.

Ah but I believe whilst his overall objective was to control and eventually defeat England, he used said objective as a means of expansionism. In the case of Egypt while overall French intention was indeed to cut Engers off from India, I think Napoleon wanted to see a French flag fly over Cairo as well. Napoleon himself cited the cause for invasion as "glory" in his memoirs.

Malta was similarly just to control the mediteranian.

Agreed.

Spain, and his eventual plans of taking the top 3 provinces, was just to keep Spain in check, as they were very vunerable to influence from foreign(i.e. Catholic) powers.

Then why try to conquer the whole peninsula? Installing his brother Joseph as the King of Spain clearly indicated that he had long term intentions in retaining the country. Losing 200,000+ men in the peninsular war and his dogged determination to hold the country seem a bit more than just keeping the gaff in 'check'.

Russia was going to attack, he attacked them first, simple.

Hang about, there's very scant evidence to support RUSSIA as the aggressor here. Napoleon began building his Grand Armee in 1810 after Russia refused to continue the continental system. I don't see any signs pointing to Alexander wanting to invade French territory, other than lustful eyes at the Duchy of Warsaw.

PHB

Then why try to conquer the whole peninsula? Installing his brother Joseph as the King of Spain clearly indicated that he had long term intentions in retaining the country. Losing 200,000+ men in the peninsular war and his dogged determination to hold the country seem a bit more than just keeping the gaff in 'check'.

The whole peninsula? To establish control in the one part he wanted.
Its like if I invaded Britain to get Wales, I dont just stop at Wales, I put down the whole of Britain and then say "Ok we're taking Wales"

His brother Joseph was installed to try and keep control, bad mistake. Spain was essentially always under French control since the revolution, and losing 200000 men was only to keep the bloody english off mainland Europe.

Hang about, there's very scant evidence to support RUSSIA as the aggressor here. Napoleon began building his Grand Armee in 1810 after Russia refused to continue the continental system. I don't see any signs pointing to Alexander wanting to invade French territory, other than lustful eyes at the Duchy of Warsaw.

First off the ukase(imposing of import taxs) was the first step of agression by Russia. This indicated a definate change of heart by Alexander.
There were Russian construction of forts along the Dvina river.
The abandonment of the continental system.
Russia was transferring cavalry divisions from Finland, Siberia and Moldovia to Polish frontiers.

All these pointed to Russias rapprochement with England. Nap then started his actual build up to the Grand armee, while the previous was simply to re-buold its strength.