Going Rate for Contract Programmers?

casper- · 19-12-2003 9:00am #1

Hey,

I'm probably going to need to higher one or more programmers on a contract basis in the new year, and was wondering what sort of rates people would reasonably expect? For instance, just graduated - 2 years experience (junior), 2 - 5 years (intermediate), 5 years+ (senior) .. for argument's sake; I'm not sure exactly how they're split.

Skills-wise, the main thing would be solid C/C++ (although I'm of the opinion that any decent coder who knows C and some OO language like Java should become productive in C++ in a reasonable time) and then Windows coding secondary. Chances are there would be MacOS coding too, but most of the OS-specific stuff has long been taken care of. Besides, if I can pick that up, then anyone can

Nice-to-have would be any of: graphics programming/image processing (even in university courses), QuickTime, DirectShow (specifically exporting to AVI files), and database/SQL.

If I haven't provided enough details, please let me know and I'll elaborate as much as I can.

MrNuked · 19-12-2003 11:30am

Hi Jediidjab

I'm very interested in any junior programming position you have. I have two years experience in IT, C++, SQL, basic Windows scripting, and I studied graphics during college.
Let me know if you're interested and I'll send you a CV.

Cheers

Peter

casper- · 19-12-2003 11:39am

MrNuked .. by all means send a CV; i was going to worry about gathering them when the time came, but there's certainly no harm in getting them early

If you're comfortable (and to maybe help start this discussion) what sort of hourly rate would you be looking for? Even a range is good ...

RicardoSmith · 19-12-2003 11:53am

junior - intermediate - senior - €20-40-60 p/h varies quite a bit though.

MrNuked · 19-12-2003 11:56am

I'll take €14 per hour because I want the experience, and because my current contract finishes in the New Year. Also, I don't mind being self-employed, which saves you paying for PRSI, PAYE, holidays etc.
I think the going rate would be significantly higher than this, however.
Let me know your email so I can send a CV.

Cheers
Peter

casper- · 19-12-2003 11:59am

Originally posted by RicardoSmith
junior - intermediate - senior - €20-40-60 p/h varies quite a bit though.

right ... that seems pretty reasonable, close to home except in euros instead of CAD

things are starting to pick up, but there are still senior programmers being hired at $35/hr back in ottawa.

RicardoSmith · 19-12-2003 12:00pm

Correction

€14-40-60 p/h

casper- · 19-12-2003 12:04pm

Originally posted by RicardoSmith
Correction

€14-40-60 p/h

I'm not looking for cheap either; i'd rather pay 20-25 for a solid junior coder rather than 10 for a mediocre one.

MrNuked · 19-12-2003 12:06pm

I am a solid coder. Was top of my year in Java in college.

casper- · 19-12-2003 12:07pm

Originally posted by MrNuked
I am a solid coder.

well, look, your rate just went up

I didn't mean to imply that you weren't a good coder, just saying that i'm not expecting people to work ultra-cheap.

RicardoSmith · 19-12-2003 12:18pm

Utlimately if you are contract and on a low rate its likely that the contractor will jump as soon as they get a better rate. Your a lot more mobile than a employee would be. Thats the downside to paying a low rate. Makes consistency on a project quite difficult.

MrNuked · 19-12-2003 12:27pm

I've had people try to bully me into working for free, in my spare time. Told me to view it as an apprenticeship and that it was a great oppurtunity to work with highly talented individuals. Very pushy and aggressive and not nice at all.

So this sort of attitude is refreshing to see:)

casper- · 19-12-2003 1:39pm

RicardoSmith: most definitely; i've been on the short end of the stick before, and not only did the work suffer, but as you said, the contractor is most definitely looking to jump ship as soon as something comes along

MrNuked: apprenticeship, eh? (there's the canadian in me coming out

) that's all good and well if it's an established firm who will definitely give you full-time employment afterwards, but beyond that, it's a sad state of affairs for the company trying to pull something like that. Btw, were the people in the company actually 'highly talented individuals'?

RicardoSmith · 19-12-2003 1:59pm

In Ireland, its the norm. Everyone wants everything as cheap as possible. Theres plenty of people willing to work for low rates or even for free in order to get ahead. In the end its self defeating because ultimately it devalues the work.

Look at the web/graphic industry. for every paying job theres about 5 that are done below cost, below a sustainable rate or even for free. As the saying goes, "a man who works for free will never be out of work".

If the work is worth doing, its worth getting paid appropriately for it. Otherwise theres no point doing it. At the end of the day everyone works for money. If your not doing it for that then why are you doing it?

MrNuked · 19-12-2003 2:38pm

Btw, were the people in the company actually 'highly talented individuals'?

Highly talented bull****ters maybe

Peace · 19-12-2003 3:12pm

So would you consider hiring someone part time....i can already hear the answer but i'm asking anyway!!

I'm a solid coder with experince to match.

padraigmyers · 19-12-2003 4:02pm

When are you thinking of hiring people?

RicardoSmith · 19-12-2003 4:05pm

What does "solid" coder mean exactly? Well built programmer or something?

Repli · 19-12-2003 4:19pm

Ricardo i think they are just informing you of their biological state... 'solid' as opposed to liquid or gas

ford fiesta · 22-12-2003 11:26am

jedidjab79, It's "hire", not "higher"

casper- · 22-12-2003 12:59pm

Originally posted by ford fiesta
jedidjab79, It's "hire", not "higher"

Eeep! well spotted ... sigh .. makes note to self to find uber-grammer checker plugin for mozilla.

casper- · 22-12-2003 1:00pm

Originally posted by padraigmyers
When are you thinking of hiring people?

Some time in January afaik .. all depends on how the clients' cash flow is after Christmas.

casper- · 22-12-2003 1:02pm

Originally posted by Peace
So would you consider hiring someone part time....i can already hear the answer but i'm asking anyway!!

I'm a solid coder with experince to match.

Yes part-time is ideal .. I don't want to hire someone as an employee and then be forced to let them go in case the work dries up. Please PM me (anyone else who's interested) and I can give you a place to email your CV.

casper- · 22-12-2003 1:04pm

Originally posted by Repli
Ricardo i think they are just informing you of their biological state... 'solid' as opposed to liquid or gas

RicardoSmith / Repli : Yes ... definitely 'solid' -- otherwise it's very difficult to find furniture to accomodate them

On a slightly serious note, for anyone has C++ experience, let's say, they had better at least know when (and why) you would want to pass an object by reference, and what const is good for. That kind of stuff...

casper- · 22-12-2003 1:08pm

Originally posted by RicardoSmith
In Ireland, its the norm. Everyone wants everything as cheap as possible. Theres plenty of people willing to work for low rates or even for free in order to get ahead. In the end its self defeating because ultimately it devalues the work.

Yes, a subject near and dear to my heart. I think I could babble on about it for hours ...

Look at the web/graphic industry. for every paying job theres about 5 that are done below cost, below a sustainable rate or even for free. As the saying goes, "a man who works for free will never be out of work".

I don't think I've ever heard that saying ... but it's definitely true. Is there a second part to it that says "he will also be constantly hungry?" heh. Oddly enough I'm going to have to look for someone to do a web page and corporate logo as well too; should be interesting....

If the work is worth doing, its worth getting paid appropriately for it. Otherwise theres no point doing it. At the end of the day everyone works for money. If your not doing it for that then why are you doing it? [/B]

As I said in an earlier post, I've been on the receiving end of that stick; not only do you get depressed, etc. but (in some cases) you have no choice but to keep working on said project. At the end of the day, it's for money, yes, but when your choices appear to be no cash (and starve), or have a little cash, you kinda have to go with the latter.

dazberry · 22-12-2003 5:05pm

Originally posted by jedidjab79

On a slightly serious note, for anyone has C++ experience, let's say, they had better at least know when (and why) you would want to pass an object by reference, and what const is good for. That kind of stuff...

If for some reason that I can't actually fathom TBH you decide to build the project in Delphi instead, PM me

Peace · 22-12-2003 5:16pm

Originally posted by jedidjab79
Yes part-time is ideal .. I don't want to hire someone as an employee and then be forced to let them go in case the work dries up. Please PM me (anyone else who's interested) and I can give you a place to email your CV.

Now there's a jaw dropper! PM sent.

casper- · 23-12-2003 7:18am

Originally posted by dazberry
If for some reason that I can't actually fathom TBH you decide to build the project in Delphi instead, PM me

Ah .. Delphi .. I know a lot of people over on JoS who swear by it, but unfortunately I somehow missed out over the years. Mind you, I recently had to re-visit Pascal while doing some code for an installer using Inno Setup, and it took me a good few minutes to switch back into the other mindset

Going Rate for Contract Programmers?

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